Paton

[Toy Saint]

As a group, our defense has been outstanding this year. They are very well organized and are supporting each other particularity well.

[B.M]

How do we feel about Howard’s form?

[magnifisaint]

How do we feel about Howard’s form?

He should stop bombing it long. He should dish it off to a player next to him

[CQ SAINT]

Apart from Lewis whom I'm not sure wasn't shared by Battle and Wilkie, most of the tall fwds have been fairly average.
Howard has played his role.

[B.M]

Lewis played the entire game on Lewis
Lewis had 8 shots on goal

Wilkie played on Gunston - gave him a bath

Battle played on Nash

[bigred]

He's off his tucker a bit.

Paton is one of the first picked. Missed him terribly last season.

They will play him back into form. He is a gun IMO.

[CQ SAINT]

Lewis played the entire game on Lewis
Lewis had 8 shots on goal

Wilkie played on Gunston - gave him a bath

Battle played on Nash

Yeah I saw that. Had a look at the replay, there was a little bit of argy bargy going on around packs and clusters. They will have to work out a better support system for each other.
Turn overs didn't help either.

[skeptic]

Howard had an exceptional patch of form in 2020 and has carried this reputation of an elite defender.

To me he’s a decent defender still developing his craft and really needs to be a part of a good defensive unit that complements his skill set (that he also adds to).

Can’t say that I like him 1v1 all that much though he is capable. He’s also prone to the big bombs to packs that I don’t care for so much

[Ghost Like]

So this was a thread that was instigated for a pile on regarding Paton. Now it's a pile re Howard? Seriously, we need both unless we have some magic defensive superstars that no one knows about. Both are best Defensive 6.

I've no fkn idea what "Back 7" means when we have to line up as 6/6/6. Please explain?

[Ghost Like]

I'd be interested to know who people want playing on Greene if not Paton?

[B.M]

AFL teams pick 7 defender

1 as a rotation

[B.M]

Howard is an ok player

As a last line defender, on the number 1 forwards he zones off too much and relies heavily on pressure upfield and support from Wilkie and Battle.

He will get found out by the better forwards, you cannot be that aggressive with positioning as a FB

Max Hudghton he is not

Seriously Lewis should’ve kicked 7 on him, he missed 5 sodas

And wtf does he take kick ins?!

[Trev from the Bush]

Howard had 12 spoils yesterday and his opponent Casboult kicked 1.1 so I am happy with him. A key part of our very strong defence.

[B.M]

Casboult is not exactly Tom Hawkins and GC are a pretty average set up

He wasn’t poor by any means, but I just don’t like the way he plays FB

He will have 6+ kicked on him by either
Harry, Walker, Daniher or Walker

Too much latitude

[Impatient Sainter]

Howard had an exceptional patch of form in 2020 and has carried this reputation of an elite defender.

To me he’s a decent defender still developing his craft and really needs to be a part of a good defensive unit that complements his skill set (that he also adds to).

Can’t say that I like him 1v1 all that much though he is capable. He’s also prone to the big bombs to packs that I don’t care for so much

It's Howard's lack of awareness that bothers me. There is marking contests when he is head and shoulders above the others in the pack, yet he still chooses to punch rather than mark the ball. I wished he had the presence to go for the marks unless it obvious he can't mark it and then punch, like the better defenders.

The other thing Howard gets caught out by is leading forwards, he simply can't read the play quickly enough or too often doesn't have the speed to go with them.

[Teflon]

Howard should be banned from kick ins
And forget the pin point passes you just know he’s gonna stuff 1 every week…

[CQ SAINT]

Howard had an exceptional patch of form in 2020 and has carried this reputation of an elite defender.

To me he’s a decent defender still developing his craft and really needs to be a part of a good defensive unit that complements his skill set (that he also adds to).

Can’t say that I like him 1v1 all that much though he is capable. He’s also prone to the big bombs to packs that I don’t care for so much

It's Howard's lack of awareness that bothers me. There is marking contests when he is head and shoulders above the others in the pack, yet he still chooses to punch rather than mark the ball. I wished he had the presence to go for the marks unless it obvious he can't mark it and then punch, like the better defenders.

The other thing Howard gets caught out by is leading forwards, he simply can't read the play quickly enough or too often doesn't have the speed to go with them.

I reckon there is a touch of over confidence in Howard.
I've seen him.punch the ball to our advantage, that start a fast rebound training drilled, scoring opportunity
I've seen him.kick out to a tight lead that started a 'training drilled' chain of play.
I've seen him.leap onto packs and mark the ball.
It doesn't always work and it looks bad and can be costly when it doesn't but clearly, our defence, and our defensive leaders Howard and Wilkie who are still quite young, have been incredibly effective and have ranked highly in league stats for the better part of 10 matches
At this point of the teams development and planning, I'll take that. Now we are kicking straight and taking a dominant attitude into our game..

[WellardSaint]

Howard is an ok player

As a last line defender, on the number 1 forwards he zones off too much and relies heavily on pressure upfield and support from Wilkie and Battle.

He will get found out by the better forwards, you cannot be that aggressive with positioning as a FB

Max Hudghton he is not

Seriously Lewis should’ve kicked 7 on him, he missed 5 sodas

And wtf does he take kick ins?!

'Relies heavily on pressure upfield'
100% agree.
Because, when he stands 20-30m off his direct opponent, who then leads and marks unopposed, what does Dougal do?
Angry finger-pointing at team-mates, gesturing, etc.
Hawkins will give him a massive reality check.
No need for Hawkins to push him in the back, cos Dougal will be 25m behind him when the ball comes in.
The only time Dougal looks good is when Wilkie n Battle put body into a pack and give Dougal every chance to mark over the back.

It's something they practice at training all the time.
The other Saints in the pack use strength to nudge the fwds in the pack, to disrupt the jump.
Makes Dougal look like a star, when it's purely a team mark.
Sam Fisher and his mates used to do it all the time.

[Yorkeys]

Paton and Howard are both very good.

Don't get the criticism.

No one plays a perfect game.

They play in the furnace, in chaos situations and against great incoming passes and great defensive set ups coming out.

Have formed part of an excellent backline that works well together.

The opposition put their better/bigger players in the the forward area and in every game the opposition has possession and can make opportunities. Winning means doing better when we have the ball. Expecting perfection? well even Man City get beaten and Ronaldo misses open goals, occasionally. I think Dusty was tackled once as well.

Big punches from behind crashing the forward packs is demoralising for opposition forwards, and a little unnerving. Great percentage play as a starting point tactic.

Paton is skilled, faster than he may look and takes the game on. You take chances, sometimes you luck out. More often he gets it done.

Good thing about this thread is no shade on Battle. Isn't he going so well. And can he kick - yes ma'm, he sure can!

[desertsaint]

Agree with yorkey's sentiments re paton and howard and how well they play with wilkie, and also very pleased with how Battle is going.
still would like an elite chb, mid, and chf - but who wouldn't.

[magnifisaint]

Agree with yorkey's sentiments re paton and howard and how well they play with wilkie, and also very pleased with how Battle is going.
still would like an elite chb, mid, and chf - but who wouldn't.

You're not asking for much!

[terry smith rules]

This is not a Paton “pile on” nor is it a massive criticism

Right now we are playing good football and in my view Paton is in our bottom 6 players

Therefore if we aspire to be a finalist why shouldn’t we analyse players form

I don’t think we want to get to say round 11 and not had a look at our players on the borderline (Connolly, Bytel etc)

good sides maintain pressure on all players to hold their spots (Melbourne just dropped Tomlinson, who had an almost identical 2021 to Paton)

Someone here said we should keep playing Paton to run him into form, really? Where is the integrity in that. Way to go in disillusioning those outside the team.

Bottom line, his 2020 form easily in our best 22, right now up for discussion

Fqf

[SunnyErnie]

This is not a Paton “pile on” nor is it a massive criticism

Right now we are playing good football and in my view Paton is in our bottom 6 players

Therefore if we aspire to be a finalist why shouldn’t we analyse players form

I don’t think we want to get to say round 11 and not had a look at our players on the borderline (Connolly, Bytel etc)

good sides maintain pressure on all players to hold their spots (Melbourne just dropped Tomlinson, who had an almost identical 2021 to Paton)

Someone here said we should keep playing Paton to run him into form, really? Where is the integrity in that. Way to go in disillusioning those outside the team.

Bottom line, his 2020 form easily in our best 22, right now up for discussion

Fqf

I'd give him some midfield minutes just to see how he goes!!!

[Saintmike65]

How do we feel about Howard’s form?

Howard has plateaued into just a solid player…body shape doesn’t seem to have changed over the years..prone to concentration lapses and struggles in one on one contests with the big bodied forwards.
He’s a double grabber when going for his marks, unlike Harris Andrews, who’s a one grabber.
Having said that, he’s crucial to our back 7 make up.
I’ve always thought Wilkie is clearly our best defender!

[SaintPav]

Howard had an exceptional patch of form in 2020 and has carried this reputation of an elite defender.

To me he’s a decent defender still developing his craft and really needs to be a part of a good defensive unit that complements his skill set (that he also adds to).

Can’t say that I like him 1v1 all that much though he is capable. He’s also prone to the big bombs to packs that I don’t care for so much

He’s doing ok but I would prefer Howard play further up the ground and someone like Sam Collins taking the main forward but you can’t have everything.