"Stuck In No Man's Land"

[prwilkinson]

Meh... they probably said the same thing about the Demons last year. Things can change pretty quickly in footy.

[CURLY]

King is a moron and his narrative changes depending on his alliances.

Richmond will improve due to a return of injured players.

StKilda can’t use injuries as an excuse everyone has injuries.

Club X Y and Z will get natural improvement from their 19 to 25 year olds.

StKilda I just can’t see any natural improvement from any of their players.

King is a moron

[shanegrambeau]

IMO we could finish anywhere between 5th and 15th.

I can’t think of a less predictable year for St Kilda than 2022, (probably said same last year)

[Saints58]

Said we killed it in the draft in 2020...the papers rated St Kilda no. 1 for the pick-ups.

Our mature recruits over recent years, a mixed bag..

Ryder - brilliant, beyond anyone's expectations...caveat.., going forward?
Hill - despite the abuse, he's great, a definite asset
Crouch - quite serviceable
McKernan and Hunter - fails
Hannas - embarrassing for club


No big backs..
Agreed! 100%

The Marshall plan saved Germany, and can save the Saints!

You missed a few which does change the outlook somewhat.

No big backs? Howard was brought in and he has been outstanding.
Butler has been more than serviceable, great first year quiet second.
Jones and Higgins have also been useful pick ups.

Better than a mixed bag I would humbly suggest.
Yes, McKernan, Hunter and Frawley were all huge bombs but really they were only stop gaps, so it didn't really cost us much.
Hannas has been unfortunate but the idea at the time was right just the result has been a disaster.

As big backs go we have a few young guys Allison, Adams who looks a good type granted they may not be ready now but who knows we might see them this season.

[shanegrambeau]

We didn't look like we were in no mans land at the back end of 2020 and Melbourne didn't look like they were in no mans land at the backend of 2018 and then had 2 very average seasons but then won a Premiership off the back of an unprecedented free injury run.

Richmond got spanked by Sydney (113pts) in the last round in 2016 finishing 13th then ...... they win 3 Premierships

Most so called expert AFL pundits just throw darts and are never held accountable for their crap predictions

Yep, and the media were all over Hardwick, circling him like a murder of crows on a dark May Sunday afternoon.

[Trev from the Bush]

Interesting reading and, for March 2, interesting that so many forumites have such negative views of our playing list. This is a reason I refrain from posting in the off-season. Why aggrevate yourself?

Interesting we have a new poster, or an old one, identifying themselves as D.B. Cooper, on the front foot for aggression and highlighting grammatical errors. Keep up the passion, I am sure by years end there will be a queue of posters volunteering to throw you out of a jet plane. Unlike your namesake, you might not be given the option of choosing your parachute!

[MC Gusto]

We didn't look like we were in no mans land at the back end of 2020 and Melbourne didn't look like they were in no mans land at the backend of 2018 and then had 2 very average seasons but then won a Premiership off the back of an unprecedented free injury run.

Richmond got spanked by Sydney (113pts) in the last round in 2016 finishing 13th then ...... they win 3 Premierships

Most so called expert AFL pundits just throw darts and are never held accountable for their crap predictions

Yep, and the media were all over Hardwick, circling him like a murder of crows on a dark May Sunday afternoon.

Arguably they had better quality that underperformed- and then a whole number of things that went right. That said they definitely had a greater number of players considered A grade or near enough by internal and external pundits

At this very point in time we have one. That could change but we are thin on top tier quality no matter which way you spin in

[Jacks Back]

I like the pessimism here. Every time that happens we go well. Conversely, when everything is looking roses we collapse in a heap. As the pessimism is winning this pre-season I predict a top 6 spot for sure this year.

[MC Gusto]

Agree with that albeit there will likely be some major melts when we get smashed by the dons

[Wayne42]

I've followed StKilda for soooooooooooooooooooo long i find it's better not to make predictions or have high expectations.

I prefer to follow it week by week and ride the roller coaster and see where it stops at season's end, some years the off season is more exciting than the
footy season.

[Impatient Sainter]

Some poignant and well constructed comments from Aussierules on BF -

"Everyone is currently writing off West Coast for this year- plenty even suggesting they could come last!- yet you go back 12 months and that was basically us.

All of the following were missing from our R1 team:

Ryder
Marshall
King
Jones
Crouch
Hannebery
Paton
Geary
Carlisle/Frawley

All of whom played in that winning final the previous season, except Crouch and Frawley.

Of the guys that played in that winning final, 9 missed 9 or more games last season and 4 of them missed 19 or more, which is just an injury smashing.

As if that isn’t bad enough, you had Billings who was top 2 in our B&F until he ruptured his plantar fascia and then he played injured and hardly trained from that point on, and then you also had Roma who ruptured his plantar fascia in his first game back and who likewise played injured from that point on.

We’ll be closer to full strength and that team won a final the year before, despite fielding on average the 3rd youngest teams each week.

Unlike some other teams, you wouldn’t expect us to get less output from older guys, who are a good chance of declining due to age this year (given how little we got from them last year), while we have a long list of guys who with another preseason under their belt are a strong chance of either a “breakout year”, or at least being better than last year- King, Clark, Higgins, Byrnes, Battle, Bytel and Connolly. Plus we only had Sharman for 3.5 games.

Then there’s fitness. It seems extremely clear that our fitness wasn’t up to par last year, which pretty much gives you no chance against the best sides, and it almost certainly cost us a chunk of percentage in games against Collingwood, North and Adelaide, where we gave up big leads.

The likelihood of us not being significantly fitter this year is extremely low, so if it is the case, that alone could make us a two win and chunk of percentage better team.

Then there’s the draw. As if having the worst injury run wasn’t bad enough, we also had the hardest draw, including all the teams we played twice being in the 8 at the time we played them each time, and playing 9 of our games either interstate, or against Geelong at Geelong!

We could be a 1 or 2 win better team just by having an easier draw this time around.

An awful, awful lot either went “wrong” for us last year, or wasn’t in our favour, yet we still finished above 8 other teams. What does that tell you about what we’ll be capable of if there isn’t so much against us?

It seems that we rectified a lot of that which was our doing after the bye (where we were apparently 7th on the “form ladder”, with a percentage of around 120, for those last 9 games), so if we continue that into this year, and have a few of the things that weren’t of our doing not be so against us this year, plus extra fitness, I don’t think it’s hard to see how we could get back to being the sort of team we were the year before. Or even better.

Again, we fielded on average the 3rd youngest teams each week in 2020, so those young guys who helped us get to the finals that year now have two more years of development under their belts, plus we’ve added Higgins, Crouch, Sharman, Wood, Highmore, Wangmil, Owens and Windy since, and neither Webster or D-Mac played a game that year, so we’re surely in a much stronger position to compete than we were that year, when we finished 5th.

No guarantees obviously, but when you have a “year from hell” and still finish above 8 teams, it surely tells you you’ll be capable of being significantly better, if you have a less hellish year the next year. As long as you haven’t lost much in the meantime, and don’t have a bunch of old guys who contributed a lot last year about to keel over. Neither of which is the case with us".

[magnifisaint]

I don't care for any journalistic opinion. It doesn't matter if they think whether we're good or bad. Let's just get on with it and see if the players have it in themselves to realise they're full potential. If Ratten gets it right this year we'll do very well.

[loris]

Interesting reading and, for March 2, interesting that so many forumites have such negative views of our playing list. This is a reason I refrain from posting in the off-season. Why aggrevate yourself?

Interesting we have a new poster, or an old one, identifying themselves as D.B. Cooper, on the front foot for aggression and highlighting grammatical errors. Keep up the passion, I am sure by years end there will be a queue of posters volunteering to throw you out of a jet plane. Unlike your namesake, you might not be given the option of choosing your parachute!

I think you’ll find he’s an old poster with a new nic Trev. His modus operandi jumped out to me very quickly

[Wayne42]

Interesting reading and, for March 2, interesting that so many forumites have such negative views of our playing list. This is a reason I refrain from posting in the off-season. Why aggrevate yourself?

Interesting we have a new poster, or an old one, identifying themselves as D.B. Cooper, on the front foot for aggression and highlighting grammatical errors. Keep up the passion, I am sure by years end there will be a queue of posters volunteering to throw you out of a jet plane. Unlike your namesake, you might not be given the option of choosing your parachute!

I think you’ll find he’s an old poster with a new nic Trev. His modus operandi jumped out to me very quickly

Any hints loris on who you mean ?

[saynta]

King is a moron and his narrative changes depending on his alliances.

Richmond will improve due to a return of injured players.

StKilda can’t use injuries as an excuse everyone has injuries.

Club X Y and Z will get natural improvement from their 19 to 25 year olds.

StKilda I just can’t see any natural improvement from any of their players.

King is a moron

You got that right. The low hair line is a dead give away.

[CURLY]

Don’t you love the clowns that list McKernan Abbot and Frawley as examples of our failed recruiting.

I’m sure our recruiting team didn’t say get these blokes or we are no chance of finals.

[cwrcyn]

It was pretty obvious that this old guys were just there to back up if we had injuries. To think otherwise is just foolish on behalf of these so-called footy experts. They cost absolutely nothing. Not drafted, not traded, which in reality sits outside the whole draft/trade discussion. Irrelevant to it.

They saw us fly in 2020 and were full of praise, but we get one year with a horrific run of injuries and suddenly we're just a nothing team going nowhere. They said the same about Melbourne after the 2019 season. Meanwhile, they talk up Carlton as if they are going to bolt into the top four on the back of the addition of two mids (and the loss of a highly credentialed key defender). They claim we don't have enough key defenders, yet Carlton don't? Yeah....of course, McDonald, McGovern, and Young are guaranteed to be super key defenders


These guys fall in love with certain players. They see a couple of up and coming youngsters and they predict greatness for those who do a flashy thing or two. They get seduced. Meanwhile, their critical faculties desert them. Too enamoured with what could be rather than what is.

[saynta]

Don’t you love the clowns that list McKernan Abbot and Frawley as examples of our failed recruiting.

I’m sure our recruiting team didn’t say get these blokes or we are no chance of finals.

Abbott? You mean that tangle footed ruckman from Sth Oz.

[D.B.Cooper]

Interesting reading and, for March 2, interesting that so many forumites have such negative views of our playing list. This is a reason I refrain from posting in the off-season. Why aggrevate yourself?

Interesting we have a new poster, or an old one, identifying themselves as D.B. Cooper, on the front foot for aggression and highlighting grammatical errors. Keep up the passion, I am sure by years end there will be a queue of posters volunteering to throw you out of a jet plane. Unlike your namesake, you might not be given the option of choosing your parachute!

Surely round 3 is the projected timeline, it couldn't take until years end could it?
I reckon "theyed" be lining up already

[saynta]

From wikipedia

"D. B. Cooper is a media epithet used to refer to an unidentified man who hijacked a Boeing 727 aircraft in United States airspace on the afternoon of November 24, 1971. The aircraft was operated by Northwest Orient Airlines and was flying from Portland, Oregon, to Seattle, Washington. The hijacker extorted $200,000 in ransom (equivalent to $1,278,000 in 2020), asked to be flown to Reno, Nevada, then parachuted to an uncertain fate over southwestern Washington part-way through the second flight. A small portion of the ransom was found along the banks of the Columbia River in 1980, which triggered renewed interest but ultimately only deepened the mystery; the great majority of the ransom remains unrecovered. The man purchased his airline ticket using the alias Dan Cooper but, because of a news miscommunication, became known in popular lore as D. B. Cooper."

So an expert on no man's land?

[D.B.Cooper]

Don’t you love the clowns that list McKernan Abbot and Frawley as examples of our failed recruiting.

I’m sure our recruiting team didn’t say get these blokes or we are no chance of finals.

Abbott? You mean that tangle footed ruckman from Sth Oz.

Paul Hunter?
I didn't mind the club giving him a shot, he had performed well at state level and was mature, fit and competitive.
Unfortunately, he was just not up to AFL standard, but he was worth giving an opportunity.

Very hard to argue that the recruitment of McKernan & Frawley were not fails IMO.
Neither had a positive impact on the field and potentially took away our ability to grab a couple of extra young mid-season picks to join Sharman & Heath who may well blossom into AFL players.

If we are going to recruit, why take players who are finished?
I'd rather grab a young prospect like Sharman or Heath or a player like Parker, Hayes, Wilkie or Highmore who are mature aged state performers who may well turn into a regular senior player or may end up like Paul Hunter.

Just my opinion but McKernan & Frawley were absolutely fails.

[Sainternist]

Not sure why people still listen to SEN

[saynta]

You are 100% . We could have recruited three young kids.

[Ghost Like]

Don’t you love the clowns that list McKernan Abbot and Frawley as examples of our failed recruiting.

I’m sure our recruiting team didn’t say get these blokes or we are no chance of finals.

Abbott? You mean that tangle footed ruckman from Sth Oz.

Paul Hunter?
I didn't mind the club giving him a shot, he had performed well at state level and was mature, fit and competitive.
Unfortunately, he was just not up to AFL standard, but he was worth giving an opportunity.

Very hard to argue that the recruitment of McKernan & Frawley were not fails IMO.
Neither had a positive impact on the field and potentially took away our ability to grab a couple of extra young mid-season picks to join Sharman & Heath who may well blossom into AFL players.

If we are going to recruit, why take players who are finished?
I'd rather grab a young prospect like Sharman or Heath or a player like Parker, Hayes, Wilkie or Highmore who are mature aged state performers who may well turn into a regular senior player or may end up like Paul Hunter.

Just my opinion but McKernan & Frawley were absolutely fails.

I actually think the fail or fails had come well before those three. Our list was such that we had positions bereft of back ups. When players decided their time was up or their bodies decided it for them, holes in the list were glaring for a side that had made finals for the first time in ages.

I can see how not recruiting kids, especially after a year being untried, can be viewed as doubling down on previous fails. Let's hope history has taught us something.

[Scollop]

Interesting reading and, for March 2, interesting that so many forumites have such negative views of our playing list. This is a reason I refrain from posting in the off-season. Why aggrevate yourself?

Interesting we have a new poster, or an old one, identifying themselves as D.B. Cooper, on the front foot for aggression and highlighting grammatical errors. Keep up the passion, I am sure by years end there will be a queue of posters volunteering to throw you out of a jet plane. Unlike your namesake, you might not be given the option of choosing your parachute!

I think you’ll find he’s an old poster with a new nic Trev. His modus operandi jumped out to me very quickly

Any hints loris on who you mean ?

Joff