Goldstein

[DownAtTheJunction]

According to foxsports, ‘the Saints have moved quickly in an attempt to secure Goldstein, who’s an unrestricted free agent at season’s end.’
“Three-year deal, they’ve offered him, (or) two years and a clause at North Melbourne. He’s considering it right now,” John Ralph said.

I just don’t get the rationale behind this. I suspect Goldstein wants to continue to play senior football, but it just seems unlikely that he’d be in our best 22. You’d have to think he’s being sort after as a backup to Rowan Marshall, but nothing more.
Surely that’s not what he wants.
If however we want him as more than a backup, then we are recruiting a guy who will turn 32 mid next season – the first year of his three year deal! Goldstein has played well at times this year, but he is no longer a dominant player.
I sincerely hope we are not going to become a Retirement Village for yesterday’s stars.

[fugazi]

Marshall to FF

[To the top]

The demographics of our List are that we have one ruckman - Marshall

On our List we have potential key position forwards in McCartin and King - neither of whip you would ruck (at least not King at this juncture of his career)

Which leaves us with Bruce as the ruck alternative including on match days - this being an unsatisfactory outcome

Carlisle can not be spared from defence

The folly of course was putting our eggs in the Longer basket and clearing Hickey to West Coast

But the damage there is now done (repeat Steven so do not repeat)

Hence we need ruck support for Marshall

Where the benefit of Marshall and Goldstein is is that they can both contribute to general play - so can be on the ground together aka Everitt and Vidovic when Everitt would go forward and kick goals

You would imagine King will be nursed thru his first couple of seasons so an impact player off the bench until his body develops to withstand the physicality required as a key forward

Goldstein would suit this development so benefit both Marshall (who is only 30 odd games in and only less than 20 rucking) and King (0 games in) over the next 2 seasons

By then we may have another King - or whoever

[To the top]

And just to add I see Marshall as a rare talent who could play anywhere

I will be interested to see King below his knees because if he is as good as reports suggest and as athletic he also could play anywhere

We have progressed to 190 cm plus mids so what is the next prototype?

200cm plus?

Try matching up on that

[DownAtTheJunction]

The demographics of our List are that we have one ruckman - Marshall

On our List we have potential key position forwards in McCartin and King - neither of whip you would ruck (at least not King at this juncture of his career)

Which leaves us with Bruce as the ruck alternative including on match days - this being an unsatisfactory outcome

Carlisle can not be spared from defence

Hence we need ruck support for Marshall

I support the arguments presented, and further agree that Marshall is a unique talent with genuine prospects as a forward.
Yes, he needs support, and our list needs rucks - that is beyond question.
I am not convinced that Goldstein however is the answer. My main concern is his age, his likely decline and whether we can fit all our talls into the 22.

[The_President]

Jon Ralph actually knows squat.

He reads what is talked about on here and Bigfooty and runs with it.

[IluvHarvey]

I think this week showed us all the need to get someone like Goldstein.

The silence at the ground when Marshall was clutching his knee was frightening.

We have no-one else.

We need a quality back up.

Look at Essendon they are forced to play that ex Docker who isn't a footballers backside.

[Scollop]

Let's assume that we don't get him now and we start showing signs of being a flag contender in 18 months time. I think we'll regret not taking the opportunity. I'd prefer Goldy to Ryder who is more injury prone imo.

I don't want a young inexperienced guy rucking unless he is super talented and he is physically capable. Tom Boyd comes to mind. If we make finals next year and we are showing signs of becoming a top 4 team in 2021, would you want a guy like Goldstein in your team and right there in September? I would

If we are shooting for a premiership I say grab him. Even if Goldy gets injured or slows right down in 2022, it would have been worth it having him for 2020 and 2021. I think the Bulldogs went into the 2016 GF with Cordy as their main ruck and they had Roughead and Tom Boyd as back ups.

[barneyboyz]

Marshall to FF

King to a wing? or closer onball?

[saintsRrising]

Marshall to FF

What tragic waste that would be. Reduced to a lead up and kick target when he just has so many tools.

Marshall plays like a giant mid. Just watch how he wins contested ball in the ruck contests.

Not only that but when he wins such balls, he does what many of our mids do not do, which is to get it out to a team mate in space.


No 1 Ruck is what Marshall is, and a ruck who is playing the game as a giant mid to boot.

[DJ Higgins]

Marshall to stay ruck, can run forward when needed but he is a rucking machine. Also watch what happened at the end of qtr 1 when he was off. All of a sudden Freo was back in the game.

Goldstein two years with option of three is not the worst idea ever as we have no other ruckman of note. Longer pierce are not AFL standard so we only have part timers. I know we have Sam albakis or some name like that but he is young and might not make it. Plus Goldie can mentor them both

[BarryGrogan]

I guess the question is:

Would you rather play against a team that had Marshall in the ruck - or against a team that had a ruck duo of Marshall and Goldstein?

[Rubyjo]

Marshal is so versatile almost a waste to constantly play him in the ruck.

[Sainter_Dad]

Marshal is so versatile almost a waste to constantly play him in the ruck.

Marshall just needs to talk to Battle

Battle was in the contest just before he took the mark at the end of last game.

So:-

Marshall rucks
Get a clearance to himself
Kicks it high enough that he can run 35 metres
Marks his own kick
Has a shot 50 out
Goals

Simples.

[saintsRrising]

I guess the question is:

Would you rather play against a team that had Marshall in the ruck - or against a team that had a ruck duo of Marshall and Goldstein?

That is not the two options.

The Options are:

A/ Marshall and Goldstein and 20 other players

OR

B/ Marshall and 21 other players

Option B/ for me.

[DownAtTheJunction]

I guess the question is:

Would you rather play against a team that had Marshall in the ruck - or against a team that had a ruck duo of Marshall and Goldstein?

That is not the two options.

The Options are:

A/ Marshall and Goldstein and 20 other players

OR

B/ Marshall and 21 other players

Option B/ for me.

Yep , I think that is where the argument lies.

[The Recruit]

Goldy going to cats
Lock it in

[st.byron]

Todd Goldstein, d.o.b. 01/07/1988, 201 cms, 232 games.

Extremely durable. Barely missed a game for 10 years.

https://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=1864

[saintsRrising]

Marshall beats Goldie in virtually every stat this season, and that is with Rowan learning on the job in essentially a new position.

Player Statistics Comparison
Todd Goldstein Name Rowan Marshall
North Melbourne Kangaroos Team St Kilda Saints

232 Career Games 31

July 1, 1988 Date of Birth November 24, 1995
31yr 1mth Age 23yr 8mth
201cm Height 201cm
103kg Weight 101kg
2006 National Draft Last Drafted In 2016 Rookie Draft
Round 3, Pick #37 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #10
North Melbourne Kangaroos Last Drafted By St Kilda Saints
2019 Stats for Season 2019
20 Games 18
6.2 Kicks 9.8
9.9 Handballs 7.8
16.1 Disposals 17.6
2.8 Marks 4.2
0.2 Goals 0.4
0.3 Behinds 0.1
1.8 Tackles 3.5
34.1 Hitouts 28.2
2.5 Inside 50s 3.1
0.2 Goal Assists 0.3
1.5 Frees For 1.9
1.1 Frees Against 1.8
8.7 Contested Possessions 11.3
7.8 Uncontested Possessions 7.1
12.2 Effective Disposals 12.5
75.8% Disposal Efficiency % 71%
2.5 Clangers 3.0
0.8 Contested Marks 1.1
0.2 Marks Inside 50 0.5
3.5 Clearances 5.4
0.8 Rebound 50s 1.1
3.9 One Percenters 2.7
0 Bounces 0
87.7 Time On Ground % 85.8
1.4 Centre Clearances 1.9
2.0 Stoppage Clearances 3.5
5.2 Score Involvements 4.9
193.1 Metres Gained 243.1
2.9 Turnovers 2.5
3.2 Intercepts 3.3
0.1 Tackles Inside 50 0.1
$616,000 AFL Fantasy Price $689,000
87.8 AFL Fantasy Score 99.1
$620,500 Supercoach Price $598,800
111.2 Supercoach Score 111.1

Though I guess we can just have Roma cooling his heels in a forward pocket for the next 3 years and ramp up his actual development once Goldie finally retires.....

[B.M]

WTF would you take Marshall out of a position he is likely to win a B&F?

If we do that, I’ll have just about had enough of our ineptness! Because it will PROVE we have no F***ing idea!!

Yes, we need a back up C Grade ruckman, in case Rowan gets injured.

But, a number one ruckman is actually now our lowest priority! The reason he is leading the b&f is because he’s not sharing the role.

And HTF are we supposed to have Bruce, Membrey, King, Marshall in the Forward half?
WTF are the small like Long, Lonie, Parker, Hind, Kent going to play?!

Dumbest s*** I have ever heard

[saintsRrising]

Roma is a competitive beast who has clearly thrived on being thrown the No 1 mantle. I just do not comprehend why some wish to blunt that and wish to have him as a bit player instead.

[B.M]

You don’t see Collingwood or Melbourne trying to turn their gun ruckmen into
50% ruck 30% Forward rubbish

Goldy CANNOT play anywhere else, Ryder hates playing Forward and does no good there.

Don’t see the problem with Bruce or Carlisle (if his Forward opponent is back up rucking)
Doing 20 minutes of Donkey work.

[fugazi]

Apart form the insurance to injury argument, which Goldy seems a very excessive answer to, maybe the thinking is King will take a year or two to develop. Until then Goldstein and Marshall create a dominance in our ruck that we haven't known since Lazar and Everitt days.
And Marshall can head forward to stretch defences. When Goldstein is on the pine, Marshall goes into the ruck and we have a smaller forward line causing mismatches in both phases?

[The Recruit]

Will be at cats in 2020

[saintsRrising]

Apart form the insurance to injury argument, which Goldy seems a very excessive answer to,

Goldy would not join St Kilda if we were intending to mainly play him at Sandy for 3 years.

If he swaps clubs it will be because he believes he will be No 1 Ruck at the club he joins.

Cats and GWS could both for example offer him that.