Thinking about this for a while

[plugger66]

Well 2 weeks anyway. Last year in SW first year we became a free flowing runnung side who could score many goals but the problem was stopping them. This year we are playing like we did when RL coached us. Struggling to score but keeping sides to lower scores. is 2 completely different game plans in 2 years a bit confusing for the players? i certainly dont know but a side with 5 AA still playing shouldnt be losing to a side like the WB. There is a problem with our older guys and yes age is certainly one of them but why the drop off. Individually they probably arent going that bad as a group and team they and the side are really struggling. This is with Ben, Steven and Armo having their best years so far and those players are in the most important position. the midfield.

So the question is how can this side lose to the GC and the WB. The positive was beating Carlton but Adelaide was poor after half time and essendon whilst not a spanking was always a fair way off them during the game. I certainly dont know what is wrong with us but I think there is something whether its the coaching, age, maybe overrating of players etc. And i am writing this knowing that I did have us not winning more than 9 games this year. I just didnt expect 5 like it seems it maybe. 5 AA in the one side no matter what age shouldnt be going this bad. Maybe the 2 game plans have confused them all.

[dragit]

Actually 7 AA's now with 16 between them…

Is the game plan different or have the better players declined to point that we aren't holding onto the ball and therefore scoring.

Lenny would be tracking at about 70% of his output last year, since he was our best last year that makes a pretty big difference… and he's not alone.

[felix]

Last year we learnt how to kick goals , this year we learn how to defend , next year we combine the two and become a juggernaught .

[plugger66]

Last year we learnt how to kick goals , this year we learn how to defend , next year we combine the two and become a juggernaught .

And I will have sex with Miranda Kerr.

[Stillwaiting]

Last year we learnt how to kick goals , this year we learn how to defend , next year we combine the two and become a juggernaught .

And I will have sex with Miranda Kerr.

You lucky bugga

[Stillwaiting]

I think it comes down to the a graders slowing down, and the next group, the b+ graders slowing down, and losing gram and Goddard has effected our run and carry.

So we have a slow down of our guns and while we appear to have some quality youngsters they are 50 games short of really being able to fill the void

[plugger66]

I think it comes down to the a graders slowing down, and the next group, the b+ graders slowing down, and losing gram and Goddard has effected our run and carry.

So we have a slow down of our guns and while we appear to have some quality youngsters they are 50 games short of really being able to fill the void

It still seems a quick fall from grace especially with apparently 7AA in the side. Dont reckon any of us saw this coming. I try to be pretty honest but I couldnt see 5 or so wins after 12 last year. And I did know BJ and Grammy would be big losses.

[joffaboy]

All Australian is overrated in the context you are using it.

Really some have not been AA for years.

[plugger66]

All Australian is overrated in the context you are using it.

Really some have not been AA for years.

Look I agree with that but Milne, Lenny and Dempster have been recently. Rooy and Joey are in his best form for years. Dal and Fisher arent even old so why are they down on form for years. Age is catching up with Milne but he is only 300 days older than when he was playing well enough to be AA. You are pretty honest with how the side was expected to go. I reckon you didnt see this drop. It smacks of issues somewhere.

[Stillwaiting]

I think it comes down to the a graders slowing down, and the next group, the b+ graders slowing down, and losing gram and Goddard has effected our run and carry.

So we have a slow down of our guns and while we appear to have some quality youngsters they are 50 games short of really being able to fill the void

It still seems a quick fall from grace especially with apparently 7AA in the side. Dont reckon any of us saw this coming. I try to be pretty honest but I couldnt see 5 or so wins after 12 last year. And I did know BJ and Grammy would be big losses.

Yes it is a quick drop to the bottom and I am surprised we have only won 2 game, but we have had some major changes and in hindsight o can see that we now have only one genuine star in Roo. Last year we were just treading water, then with the slowdown and changes I am not surprised we're we are( I say that in hindsight of course)
Just a shame this renewal process was not started under Lyon, then we may have not have seen such a dall

[Junction Oval]

One factor is that with fewer top performers, those that we have, are covered a lot more closely than in the past.

Also, we keep getting caught on the re-bound out of our forward line, because of poor delivery going in - with the ball coming in, our forwards try to break clear for the pass. Poor delivery coughs it up to the opposition and they are clear to run it out to their advantage. Our backline is not as good as it was.

Another thing. Watch Lenny's attack on the ball. Apart from Armitage, there aren't any other mids that come close to his attack on the ball. Lighter bodies of our younger guys are just being brushed aside.

Centre clearances are deplorable, which doesn't help either.

It's a re-build, but that as we know, takes time.

[Old Mate]

How many players from the 2010 grand final played on the weekend? Only 10. Out of those 10 think how many have declined significantly in form. Milne, Dal Santo, Hayes, Fisher, Ray, Jones etc - none are near their 2010 form. Roo and Joey seem the only two who are playing very good footy. Then look at the other 12 in the side and who has improved the team? Roberton, Steven, Geary and Ben....Maybe I'm missing a few. In 2010 we had a poor bottom 6 (Eddy, Mini and those types) now he have a poor bottom 15. Not a quick drop when you take that into consideration.

[gringo]

I think our form line is probably pretty similar to the last couple but no one cares if you are falling over the line winning. This year with out gram and goddard we are losing more close ones. North are similar but a better team again. the difference could also be attributed to teams like Richmond, Port, GC, Brisbane, Essendon etc improving to the point that a win isn't guaranteed any more or even unlikely in some of their cases.

[plugger66]

How many players from the 2010 grand final played on the weekend? Only 10. Out of those 10 think how many have declined significantly in form. Milne, Dal Santo, Hayes, Fisher, Ray, Jones etc - none are near their 2010 form. Roo and Joey seem the only two who are player very good footy. Then look at the other 12 in the side and who has improved the team? Roberton, Steven, Geary and Ben....Maybe I'm missing a few. In 2010 we had a poor bottom 6 (Eddy, Mini and those types) now he have a poor bottom 15. Not a quick drop when you take that into consideration.

So you thought 5 wins was about it at the start of the year? Last year we won 12. I certainly expected a drop. I think there is more in it than just age. Why the complete shift in game plan after one year? Why the drop off of Dal and Fisher when they arent even that old?

[joffaboy]

All Australian is overrated in the context you are using it.

Really some have not been AA for years.

Look I agree with that but Milne, Lenny and Dempster have been recently. Rooy and Joey are in his best form for years. Dal and Fisher arent even old so why are they down on form for years. Age is catching up with Milne but he is only 300 days older than when he was playing well enough to be AA. You are pretty honest with how the side was expected to go. I reckon you didnt see this drop. It smacks of issues somewhere.

Well I fully expected us not to compete for the flag for at least 5 years after 2010. Two games ago I was pretty happy with our effort for the previous month culminating in a good win.

Last two games have been ordinary.

Tend to think that if we are getting flogged out of the middle we are going to get pumped even by a team like the Dogs.

Our only functional forward this year has been Roo. Saad and Milera have been having 2nd year blues. Milne is out of form and probably our best mid/forward, Schneider has been out for weeks.

Yes we were scoring last year, but if you dont have the clearances and your forwards are out of form, your scoring will dry up.

I am optimistic that it has more to do with the transition phase and our lack of form than an issue with the coach. Could be wrong.

[SaintPav]

I could be wrong but I seemed to notice that we pushed numbers back when we were struggling. I thought we did it a bit more when Roo was off but I could be wrong. I don't particularly like it and it's not working anyway. It seems that we have fallen off a cliff. If you're getting KILLED in the mid field no game plan will ever save you unless you are Ross Lyon of course.

[White Winmar]

I agree with you, P66. As I've noted elsewhere, there is something NQR about this team ATM. As to what is wrong, only those on the inside know.

[dragit]

I think I had us at 6 wins for the year…

Honestly we get starry eyed on here with our young guys coming through, who show some promise but still can't genuinely compete with the best players in the comp.

We have holes all over the ground… FB, 2nd key forward, about 4 solid mids.

I reckon we are slightly worse than last year but the 5-6 teams around us from last year have improved. Port, Dogs, Brisbane, Richmond, North, GCS all better than last year. Probably only Melbourne & GWS who haven't noticeably improved.

A few key players out of form, losing Goddard & Gram and we fall away, it doesn't take much to drop off the pack.

I'm hoping it is natural decline and not a fundamental coaching issue, the last thing we need is a change of coach… we need stability.

[st.byron]

It does seem weird that we are so far off it all of a sudden. Didn't see a bottom 3 ladder position coming.
As others have said getting smashed in the clearances is no recipe for dominating games. Milney as much as I love him seems to have lost a yard and there's no forward potency apart from Roo.
Roberton has been a great get but other key backs - Dempster, Gwilt, Fish - have had or seem to be struggling with injury. Hickey seems to be playing injured. Lenny with a calf. Losing Wright's run. Perhaps injuries are also taking toll more than we realise.

[SaintPav]

I agree with you, P66. As I've noted elsewhere, there is something NQR about this team ATM. As to what is wrong, only those on the inside know.

"I don't shy away from that"...

[PJ]

Point 1/ Backline - Of our experienced group Fish, Gwilt and Dempster have all had injuries and interruptions but this is countered by Roberton & Stanley - Overall grade 7/10

Point 2/ Midfield - With Goddard gone, Lenny injured and Dal having his worst season for some time we are virtually down 3 important mids add the fact that CJ is no longer viable. Jack is having a breakout season though. Ben's form has turned to crap - Overall grade 3/10

Point 3/ Forwards - Not sure Milneys issues but it's not only age, he looks mentally done. Maister since the injury has lost form. Saad has started slow but is starting to go. Schneids (broken), Milera all over the shop. Roo best season so far - Overall grade 4/10

Out of form or injured In form New and developing

Ben Roo Wright
Lenny Joey Ross
Saad Steven Newnes
Milne Roberton Webster
Maister Armo (relatively) Hickey
Fish Geary Lee
Milera Dempster (just) Lever (untried)
Dal
Schneids
Gwilt
Simpkin
Sipposs (no longer new)
Jones (slowed to new level)
TDL (possibly never had form)

As has been expressed before we are currently unbalanced.

Team plan? or is it the implementation which I think is more likely.

Dal and Milney are the biggest worries for me in terms of WTF is going on. Yes Dal is being tagged but he was last year too. Too many players are not on the same page it's visable.

[joffaboy]

It does seem weird that we are so far off it all of a sudden. Didn't see a bottom 3 ladder position coming.

Leigh Matthews has said in the past - when the slide comes, it comes quickly.

Collingwood, Lions, Port, Doggies, now us.

Seems to hold true.

[SaintPav]

If Melbourne can beat us in the midfield, they will be a chance against us. It's a worry.

[Old Mate]

It does seem weird that we are so far off it all of a sudden. Didn't see a bottom 3 ladder position coming.

Leigh Matthews has said in the past - when the slide comes, it comes quickly.

Collingwood, Lions, Port, Doggies, now us.

Seems to hold true.

Yup.

Leigh's Brissy team was playing off in a GF and belting us by 10 goals in a final...Then 12 months later we flogged them by 23 goals.

[saintspremiers]

I wonder if last year there was pressure from the board (and supporters) to play more exciting attacking high scoring footy. Tick.

But the defensive deficiency would've bugged SW given his coaching background.

But was SW under the wrong impression as to where the side was? Did he think the uber-attack would just roll on with a more defensive mindset?

Maybe a team like Geelong can do it but it takes a much better skill set than we have.

Simply, SW IMO has misread the team. He may be a good developer of players - not sure yet - but week to week coaching he's a bit like GT - trying to learn the ropes.