73% of fans want a FAIR draw

[Enrico_Misso]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... .html#pollF

73% of fans DON'T want the draw full of blockbusters and derbies whereby the same pairs of teams ALWAYS play each other twice.

73% of fans DON'T want a draw which is handicapped so the lower ranked teams only play the higher ranked teams once.

What 73% of fans want is a FAIR draw.
A draw where all teams play each other an equal number of times over a three year period.


Unfortunately "Fairness" is not a concept that the AFL is familiar with.
Nor is "listening" to what the supporters want.

[tweedaletomanning]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... .html#pollF

73% of fans DON'T want the draw full of blockbusters and derbies whereby the same pairs of teams ALWAYS play each other twice.

73% of fans DON'T want a draw which is handicapped so the lower ranked teams only play the higher ranked teams once.

What 73% of fans want is a FAIR draw.
A draw where all teams play each other an equal number of times over a three year period.


Unfortunately "Fairness" is not a concept that the AFL is familiar with.
Nor is "listening" to what the supporters want.

Andrew demetriou's ego is 73% larger than anyone elses, so whatever he thinks is good for HIM is what will happen.

[dragit]

The other 27% barrack for Collingwood and Essendon…

[fingers]

According to the Collingwood FC survey

23% want the blockbusters to stay
47% aren't sure what a blockbuster is
68% want games to be scheduled during "yard time" (not sure what that is)
the remaining 42% aren't sure about percentages.

[saintspremiers]

100% of Andrew Demetriou's don't give a stuff about what the fans want!

[mr six o'clock]

The afl don't give a stuff about fairness
its all about revenue
thats life

[evertonfc]

We all want a fair draw...

...ours looked pretty fair this year.

We should be 5-0.

#justsaying

[plugger66]

i wonder how many of those 73% would want a fair draw, whatever that is when you can only play 5 sides twice, if it meant their side may not exist anymore due to less money from various avenues but mainly TV rights? And wahtever happens you would still need derbys in each state so it just will never happen and I for one hope it doesnt. I want my club to be around in 10 years time and then 20 years time and so on. And for people blaming AD you can bet whoever takes over from him will still want the fixture similar to how it is now.

[Bayside Nick]

Firstly, It's a fixture not a draw. They set the fixture to make the biggest $. Just as anyone would do in business.
But how 23% of fans could say they don't want a fair draw is unusual. Like u say, prob Collingwood and Essendon fans.

[vacuous space]

i wonder how many of those 73% would want a fair draw ... if it meant their side may not exist anymore due to less money from various avenues but mainly TV rights?

TV isn't interested in footy because of manufactured blockbusters. They may want to show the safe teams, but they're usually much happier showing good teams. ANZAC day is the only blockbuster that has a national impact. The derbies are usually covered by FOX and sold to local stations. If Seven is even showing Queen's birthday, it'll be reluctantly. TV is interested in footy because it's the number one sport in the country. Evening up the draw won't change that. It's unlikely that ANZAC day or the derbies will go anywhere, but are there any other necessary blockbusters?

By showing clubs like North Melbourne less in the prime time slots, they're institutionalising North's bottom-feeder status. By giving preferential treatment to teams like Essendon, they're institutionalising their superiority. I would argue that creating an uneven competition hurts TV right by making a larger percentage of games uninteresting. Honestly, who wants to watch North right now? Evening up the comp maximises both gates and TV audiences over the long term. That's why we have a draft and salary cap. Why apply different logic to the fixture?

[plugger66]

i wonder how many of those 73% would want a fair draw ... if it meant their side may not exist anymore due to less money from various avenues but mainly TV rights?

TV isn't interested in footy because of manufactured blockbusters. They may want to show the safe teams, but they're usually much happier showing good teams. ANZAC day is the only blockbuster that has a national impact. The derbies are usually covered by FOX and sold to local stations. If Seven is even showing Queen's birthday, it'll be reluctantly. TV is interested in footy because it's the number one sport in the country. Evening up the draw won't change that. It's unlikely that ANZAC day or the derbies will go anywhere, but are there any other necessary blockbusters?

By showing clubs like North Melbourne less in the prime time slots, they're institutionalising North's bottom-feeder status. By giving preferential treatment to teams like Essendon, they're institutionalising their superiority. I would argue that creating an uneven competition hurts TV right by making a larger percentage of games uninteresting. Honestly, who wants to watch North right now? Evening up the comp maximises both gates and TV audiences over the long term. That's why we have a draft and salary cap. Why apply different logic to the fixture?

It doesnt even it up though. No matter how many Friday night games North get they still will not have a big audience just as no matter how many GF's we play in we probably will not get past 40k members. I have no idea how you know channel 7 doesnt want other blockbusters. Are you sure they dont want Carlton v richmond as the first game of the year or the pies playing carlton and Essendon twice in a year.

[vacuous space]

I have no idea how you know channel 7 doesnt want other blockbusters. Are you sure they dont want Carlton v richmond as the first game of the year or the pies playing carlton and Essendon twice in a year.

TV execs like big ratings. The AFL puts the top rating games in its annual report every year and the common thread isn't the most resourced clubs - it's good teams. The manufactured blockbusters may do well for ticket sales, but they don't do particularly well for ratings. Just because a club gets a lot of people to the ground doesn't mean their fans turn on their sets too. The only Essendon game which showed up on the 2011 list of the top rated games was ANZAC day. Our games v Brisbane and Collingwood outrated all Essendon's games except ANZAC day. If Seven's clever, they're pushing for night games between the previous year's top four. I'll concede that channel Seven may be run by a bunch of chimps.

[Enrico_Misso]

By showing clubs like North Melbourne less in the prime time slots, they're institutionalising North's bottom-feeder status. By giving preferential treatment to teams like Essendon, they're institutionalising their superiority. I would argue that creating an uneven competition hurts TV right by making a larger percentage of games uninteresting. Honestly, who wants to watch North right now? Evening up the comp maximises both gates and TV audiences over the long term. That's why we have a draft and salary cap. Why apply different logic to the fixture?

+ many
Well said!

Some on this site repeat the tired old axiom that the Blockbusters prop up the TV rights money.
And hence all clubs benefit by greater handouts.
So without the blockbusters those weak clubs would die.

But that is total CARP!

For a strong competition.
You need all clubs to have a healthy following.
Which means they all need exposure.
To build their fan base.
To get interest from sponsors.
To generate revenue.

Handouts do none of the above.
And the weak clubs become weaker.
Require greater handouts.
Until they eventually become the next Fitzroy.

Why can't people see the obvious?

[dragit]

The most hilarious thing this year is Eddie and Clarkson coming out and moaning about an unfair draw… Collingwood who have easily benefited most from the shonky draw now complaining blows my mind…

I'm not sure how different the total attendances would be at the end of the year from an even draw, like I said earlier if North v Richmond normally would get 40 K, then I think they would probably get at least 60 K for anzac day, Essendon v Collingwood got 90 K for anzac day but would probably get 70 K on another day…

I have this vague memory that the AFL isn't a business, it's a non-profit organisation. Sure they need to keep their books in check but a $1,000,000,000 media deal tells me that there is probably enough cash around to enable a fair draw… TV exposure is worth more than the dollars they receive from the broadcast, how North are ever meant to become 'successful' I will never know.

Not much point making the comp 'even' with the draft if one side has to travel interstate twice as much as the next side, or teams are drawn to play at a home ground that they lose money at even with a decent crowd.

Let's be clear, the CEO is paid a multi-million dollar bonus for making the comp even, for his own personal gain, he has no interest in a fair draw, couldn't give a stuff.

The old line from Gillion McKnobjockey "All clubs ask to play Collingwood in Melbourne" is just an absurd excuse, as if the AFL listen to the clubs on any other points… Of course the clubs want play the biggest drawing teams at home, doesn't mean that they should be able to every year.

[plugger66]

By showing clubs like North Melbourne less in the prime time slots, they're institutionalising North's bottom-feeder status. By giving preferential treatment to teams like Essendon, they're institutionalising their superiority. I would argue that creating an uneven competition hurts TV right by making a larger percentage of games uninteresting. Honestly, who wants to watch North right now? Evening up the comp maximises both gates and TV audiences over the long term. That's why we have a draft and salary cap. Why apply different logic to the fixture?

+ many
Well said!

Some on this site repeat the tired old axiom that the Blockbusters prop up the TV rights money.
And hence all clubs benefit by greater handouts.
So without the blockbusters those weak clubs would die.

But that is total CARP!

For a strong competition.
You need all clubs to have a healthy following.
Which means they all need exposure.
To build their fan base.
To get interest from sponsors.
To generate revenue.

Handouts do none of the above.
And the weak clubs become weaker.
Require greater handouts.
Until they eventually become the next Fitzroy.

Why can't people see the obvious?

And why cant people see that you can only platy 5 sides twice so it will never be a fair draw. And why cant people see that TV will fall if they dont have certain sides play on Friday night and certain big games between the big sides. And why cant people see that if the TV rights fall then sides will fall over. It is quite simple. North melbourne used to play quite often friday night because they started the night but it sill hasnt helped their drawing power at all. And we have made to GF's and we still havent cracked 40k members. Clubs will still need to be propped up if they make the drawer fairer which is impossible anyway but the problem will be the TV rights will be less so there will be less money to prop up clubs.

The simple fact is there is no fair draw with 18 teams and 22 games so why not make as much money for the competition so we still have 18 sides in 10 years time.

[vacuous space]

And why cant people see that you can only platy 5 sides twice so it will never be a fair draw. And why cant people see that TV will fall if they dont have certain sides play on Friday night and certain big games between the big sides. And why cant people see that if the TV rights fall then sides will fall over.

Many of us have made mention of rotating and random draws that even out over time. Obviously you can't have a prerfectly even draw. You can still make it a lot more fair than it is.

Also, like I said, the top rating games involve good teams in good timeslots. They don't involve traditional rivals in fixed blockbusters. If you take the other Collingwood v Essendon game from last year, you're not taking away one of the top rating games. If you take out a Carlton v Essendon game, you're not taking out a top rating game. If you take out a Richmond game of any sort you're not taking out a top rating game. In short, FOX isn't going to turn to rugby because the AFL evens out the draw. The AFL will still be the top sport in the land and will still be able to charge through the roof for broadcast rights.

The teams will fold idea is hysterical nonsense.

[snowdelisaint]

The other 27% barrack for Collingwood and Essendon…

You beat me to it

[Enrico_Misso]

3 x 22 = 66
4 x 17 = 68

So that means
Over 3 seasons of 22 H&A games
you can play each of the other 17 teams 4 times each (except for 2 that you play 3 times).

So you can do a "Three Year draw" where everyone plays each other 4 times
- twice at home and twice away
- except for two teams selected at random who you only play three times

That is an example of a FAIR draw that 73% of fans want.

As mentioned the other 27% is made up of
- Collingwood supporters 26.99% who love their current dream draw
- and misguided innumerate AFL apologists on this site 0.01%

[Bernard Shakey]

And why cant people see that you can only platy 5 sides twice so it will never be a fair draw. And why cant people see that TV will fall if they dont have certain sides play on Friday night and certain big games between the big sides. And why cant people see that if the TV rights fall then sides will fall over. It is quite simple. North melbourne used to play quite often friday night because they started the night but it sill hasnt helped their drawing power at all. And we have made to GF's and we still havent cracked 40k members. Clubs will still need to be propped up if they make the drawer fairer which is impossible anyway but the problem will be the TV rights will be less so there will be less money to prop up clubs.

The simple fact is there is no fair draw with 18 teams and 22 games so why not make as much money for the competition so we still have 18 sides in 10 years time.

So what you're saying is the comp is rooted, and let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

What I believe is that AFL is the top TV sport in the country and the TV rights will not change whatever the fixture is. There is no option for the networks.

Let's have an equal schedule over a three year period and give everyone a fair go.

[gringo]

Of all the games of a fair draw on a given weekend surely the most desirable ones at the start of a season will still get billed as the marquee games on primetime slots, not just teams with large fan bases. TV will slowly faze out as we know it and become subscription based so the comp will probably start to contract anyway.

[plugger66]

3 x 22 = 66
4 x 17 = 68

So that means
Over 3 seasons of 22 H&A games
you can play each of the other 17 teams 4 times each (except for 2 that you play 3 times).

So you can do a "Three Year draw" where everyone plays each other 4 times
- twice at home and twice away
- except for two teams selected at random who you only play three times

That is an example of a FAIR draw that 73% of fans want.

As mentioned the other 27% is made up of
- Collingwood supporters 26.99% who love their current dream draw
- and misguided innumerate AFL apologists on this site 0.01%

You love figures. I am still surprised Geelong won 3 flags in 5 years. They were only supposed to win one every 17 years. Anyway you obviously dont have interest in growing the game. You have to have derbies especially in Sydney and Brisbane where they are trying to grow the game. Also how does that make the draw fair. Yes you play them about every 4 years but you could have played WCE twice this year compared to 2 years ago when they were bottom. We might feel all warm and nice that the draw is set but it still will never be fair so why not try maximise TV income and other incomes. For people to say it will make bugger all difference to revenue well they have their head in the sand and probably their house in the sand as well. If the draw is to be fair we also need to have equal Friday night games and Anzac day games. I reckon the TV channels will be over the moon when GC play GWS on Friday and when Pt Adelaide play North on Anzac day when all 4 are down the bottom of the ladder.

Yes you ststs show it can be done but like with premierships footy is played on perfect stats results.

[SinCitySainter]

So this means that 73% of fans want a 34 game season because playing every other side home and away is the only way it can be considered fair.
All other draw structures are inherently compromised.
I must be one of the 27% as I don't want the season to last that long.
As it can't be fair I personally would prefer the league to make as much money as they can from it.

[matrix]

over three years
not over a season

apparently

[perfectionist]

There is only one way to get a "fair draw" is for every team to play each other twice, once at Home and once Away. This actually happened in the VFL from its inception in 1897 until 1924 (with variations around the war years). Once we moved to 12 clubs, without a commensurate increase in rounds (because cricket season prevented it), the fair draw disappeared.

In 1970, the season was extended to 22 rounds and would have resulted in the return of the fair draw except for one thing - VFL Park. It was the first year of Waverley and some clubs had one or more Home games transferred to this neutral venue, in our case both the Essendon and Geelong games (we won both). After that, and especially after the admission of the interstate clubs, things have only got worse. There was an attempt to provide a fair draw over a period of years, but it was stopped before the cycle was completed, in favour of Collingwood.

Unless the season is extended to 34 rounds and the AFL stops moving games from designated home venues (like the Hawthorn game on Saturday), there will never be a fair draw. That said, our "draw" could have been a lot worse this year. As others have said, only a few bad turnovers have cost us a 5-0 start. We are unlikely to improve much on our 3-2 start in the next four weeks. But, we live in hope.

[Thinline]

If the competition is mature enough to handle two new teams, surely it's matuire enough to split itself into two divisions.

Scrap the preseason competition.

Two divisions of 9 each split evenly based on ladder position.

27 round season.

Top four from each division through to a cumulative top 8.

OR

'Up and Down' divisional system.

Three up three down end of each season.

Two grand finals: one at Etihad for Div 2, one at MCG Div 1.