Statistic Rankings from 2011

[Devilhead]

Below are our final rankings for 2011 - based on averages (obviously it is out of 17 teams)

Disposals - 5th
Kicks - 6th
Marks - 4th
Handballs - 3rd
Tackles - 4th
Goals - 11th
Behinds - 13th
Frees For - 12th
Frees Against - 5th
Hit Outs - 12th
Contested Marks - 12th
1st Possession - 17th
Clearances - 17th
Inside 50's - 12th
Rebound 50's - 5th
Contested Possessions - 15th
Uncontested Possessions - 3rd
1%'s - 11th

Dead last in 1st Possession & Clearances & 3rd last in Contested Possessions

Something to work on!!

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/tea ... ts=TA&sr=0

[dcstkfc]

Below are our final rankings for 2011 - based on averages (obviously it is out of 17 teams)

Disposals - 5th
Kicks - 6th
Marks - 4th
Handballs - 3rd
Tackles - 4th
Goals - 11th
Behinds - 13th
Frees For - 12th
Frees Against - 5th
Hit Outs - 12th
Contested Marks - 12th
1st Possession - 17th
Clearances - 17th
Inside 50's - 12th
Rebound 50's - 5th
Contested Possessions - 15th
Uncontested Possessions - 3rd
1%'s - 11th

Dead last in 1st Possession & Clearances & 3rd last in Contested Possessions

Something to work on!!

http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/tea ... ts=TA&sr=0

L.Hayes will make a difference. But yes the whole midfield group needs to step up.

Personally I feel CJ should play as a genuine mid and Dempster and Geary do the run with roles

[Con Gorozidis]

thanks for the stats.
i think it is pretty clear where were last year. lucky to make the 8 really. we only hung on because our defence is so good.

people underestimate zac. if u look at our inside 50s - the fact we finished 8th or whatever just shows how good our defence was. also shows why Fisher won the B & F. The bloke was just rebounding and clearing it non-stop. God knows how many times he saved our bacon.

our season could have been a lot uglier really.

[St Loxton]

The power of Lenny........we miss him......i miss him!!

C'mon Saints!!!

[Teflon]

yes we miss Hayes but surely we gotta stop being 1 man band in the middle for clearances. Armo has to step up in this area IMHO hes not gonna be a mid run/spread/ball carrier.....hes bread and butter OVER Stevens and Co should be inside hard ball and clearance work.

[SaintSimmo]

I always like looking at corresponding stats, as it tells more of a story rather then focusing on one particular area.

Contested Possessions - 134 (15th) vs Uncontested Possessions - 234 (2nd)
Those stats worry me, as it shows obviously shows we don't get enough of the hard ball and therefore it could be said we have to many passengers in the team which is pointless as we first must win then ball to allow players like peake, ray, gram, montagna, etc to be effective in their roles. Also take a look at those names and think back to last season, they all had below par seasons (besides peake who improved in the latter half of the year)

Inside 50's - 50 (12th) vs Rebound 50's - 37(5th)
Now this can be interpreted in many ways, the first being that our attack breaks down in the midfield as we struggle to get on the end of a rebounding ball making it impossible to get any momentum going into our 50 to create a scoring opportunity.

The second being that our defenders are not hitting up the right options when kicking out of defense and are not hitting up our midfielders therefore not giving them a chance to give enough supply to our forwards to kick a winning total.

It would be great to have access to those specific stats to find out which is the case, but I doubt they would be accessible on the internet.

Another interesting way to interpret stats is by comparing them with previous years.

In 2009 we averaged
129 contested possessions and 260 uncontested (difference of 131)
38 hitouts
37 clearances (highest in the league)

In 2010 we averaged
132 contested possessions and 258 uncontested (difference of 126)
35 hitouts
34 clearances

In 2011 we averaged
134 contested possessions and 234 uncontested (difference of 100)
36 hitouts
34 clearances (lowest in the league)

So in the space of 2 years we have gone from being the best clearance team to the worst clearance team, with possessions and hit outs virtually the same the problem may lie somewhere else (i.e. the ability of our mids to get on the end of a ruck knock and take the ball into our 50, or opposition coaches have worked out ross lyon's tactics and have been able to prevent us from playing the way we would like to)

However stats never tell the whole story so read into all of that what you will.

[Teflon]

Interesting analysis.

Clearance numbers alone shows the comp doesnt stand still....and we have.

Ruck situation has to have had a big impact on that - King/Gardiner perviously helped...

This year relying on McEvoy so much could be a disaster.

[Con Gorozidis]

Big bodied ruckmen at clearances just can't be understated. In 09 we were flying and we had 2 massive units in ruck that year.
There is no stat for sticking ur massive ass in the way and letting ur small blokes get clearances but that's what a big ruckman can do.
Jolly and ottens are both huge men and very wide. Often they don't touch the ball they just get in the way of the opposition. Very effective at clearances.

[busso mick]

yes we miss Hayes but surely we gotta stop being 1 man band in the middle for clearances. Armo has to step up in this area IMHO hes not gonna be a mid run/spread/ball carrier.....hes bread and butter OVER Stevens and Co should be inside hard ball and clearance work.

+1

If we are relying on a bloke who has just turned 32 and coming back from a knee reco then we are dreaming. Time for a few more to step up.

[Junction Oval]

It''s time for the younger Mids to step up. Last year's clearance effort was dreadful. We can't leave it to the old hands and expect them to continue taking up any slack.

Only having one semi-experienced ruckman is also a very big worry.

[Choppa]

With respect to Hayes coming back, I would not expect too much too soon. Look how long it took Dempster to regain form after his knee reco.

[Con Gorozidis]

With respect to Hayes coming back, I would not expect too much too soon. Look how long it took Dempster to regain form after his knee reco.

agree. people thinking len-dog is just going to waltz into being a champ are dreaming. hes 32 and has had 2 recos.

if we are going to improve it needs to be from the likes of armo steven, ross, ledger, cripps, cj (and maybe even polo).

[WinnersOnly]

I wonder how Harvey effected our midfield?

We seemed very reactive all year - I have my reservations about RH coaching abilities as didn't Carlton struggle also when he was there midfield Coach?[/list][/quote]

[Eastern]

yes we miss Hayes but surely we gotta stop being 1 man band in the middle for clearances. Armo has to step up in this area IMHO hes not gonna be a mid run/spread/ball carrier.....hes bread and butter OVER Stevens and Co should be inside hard ball and clearance work.

+1

If we are relying on a bloke who has just turned 32 and coming back from a knee reco then we are dreaming. Time for a few more to step up.

+2..... And it's his SECOND reco !!

[SainterK]

Am I being too wistful to say that it's just him out there that makes the difference?

I agree its time for someone else to stand up, but I'd say it's more in the heart and soul spiritual leader type of capacity....

Nobody even close to Lenny in that regard.

[Scollop]

When your team has kicked 2 or 3 goals up 'til half time (like we did with our last match under Lyon and many other matches throughout his tenure) then perhaps that summarises the philosophy of the head coach and the stats are bound to reflect the game plan to a large extent.

My read on the stats from 2011; When you bust your guts as a player and you do it time and time again and there's no score board pressure because your mids and forwards are focussed on helping the defenders, then you lose the motivation, and in the end it seems as if there are too many passengers. Why should a game plan that is heavily weighted towards defense be seen as the conservative strategy and a game plan that is weighted towards kicking goals be seen as a 'risky' strategy?? As we saw with a lot of our games, when teams are so close on the scoreboard and you can't put them away, then that in my mind is way too risky!! They are likely to overun you sooner or later. Everyone knows you can't defend too early in the quarter and you can't defend your lead at three quarter time even if you are 5 goals ahead. You've got to score goals. A team that kicks three or four in a row without a reply is bound to steamroll a team intent on just defending.

There's no doubt that the game is getting quicker, the players are more athletic and the running capacity of our mids and the team as a whole will need to go up another notch in 2012 if we want to play deep into September. Surely the most important factor won't be that the other clubs are fitter or have better conditioning staff, but the motivation to be able to gut run and the mental toughness or the motivation to drive our blokes to gut run time and time again, when they just want to fall over and collapse...I feel that under Lyon we lost that motivation. The game plan under Lyon was too heavily focussed on defense and restricting the opposition. Lyon's game plan had the effect of sacrificing the aggression and attacking nature of some of of our mids and forwards that demand the footy and are hungry to score GOALS.

Lyon suffocated the players in the team that would normally be looking to take a risk (apart from Milney of course who mastered the art of taking risks and in the highly disciplined team ethos of AFL became the only bloke in our team who had a licence to take too many risks which seemed to be acceptable ). The problem with the game plan was that we were so structured in providing numbers down back that Milney was often the sole target in some games and sometimes - after it went inside 50 and we failed to get a major - it was the main reason why it came straight out again.

Where's the reward for the hard work from the defense? How can you take risks if you know that your coach will crucify you if you don't get up the ground to defend? How many times can you gut run to go forward when your main emphasis is on defending. How motivated will you be to go hard to try and run loose kick a goal if your head coach an his assistants have a reward system and rank their players efforts more on their defensive strengths rather than their risk taking? If the mids and the running receivers are not practicing drills and working on their forward attacks just as much as their defensive work, then your goal scoring capacity will suffer. If Scott Watters gets the balance right and our players can be encouraged to take more risks and as a team we practice and create more opportunities for forward thrusts and attacking strategies that'll result in more kicks for goals, then I believe that the team will be motivated to gut run deep into September.

It's the same with most sports. Take cricket for example, I mean the aggression from guys like Warner and Pattinson is just what the team needed to spark the Aussies and the work that our quicks put in was balanced with some great batting and some hard work in defending our earlier innings scores, which weren't that great. As far as the bigger picture...everyone knows when you bust your gut two years running with GF appearances... and you know you've sacrificed so much throughout the year, and you get so close but it really wouldn't have made much difference if you didn't even qualify for a grannie because there's nothing to show for it...then that will also take it's toll. 2011 was always going to be step backward for the whole club. The team needs new players to be blended in with the core group and the senior players need to be kept motivated and hungry.

[SaintSimmo]

I wonder how Harvey effected our midfield?

We seemed very reactive all year - I have my reservations about RH coaching abilities as didn't Carlton struggle also when he was there midfield Coach

Carlton didn't struggle when Harvs was their midfield coach, infact they improved.

In 2009 Harves was at the blues but as a fitness and development coach, he was promoted to their midfield coach for the 2010 season and take a look at their stats:

2009 Clearances = 11th in the league (34 per game)
2010 Clearances = 3rd in the league (37 per game)

IMO, Harves was never going to have any effect on our midfield as Ross Lyon was too controlling and gave the assistant coaches little say into how we played, they were really just there to pick up the cones and help with the training drills.

[Con Gorozidis]

Dear scollop
Great post.
Stats are one thing. But u summed up how those stats must effect the psyche. I dare anyone to try and sprint for 100 minutes. 20 at a time. Its ridiculously hard sport when u think about it.
Bust ur ass for 60 minutes and look at the scoreboard and have 2 goals must be disheartening.
And as saints supporters we must all know how it feels when we bust a gut for an inside 50 and find a high ball to milney v 3 opposition.
So frustrating so many times.

[PJ]

Again back to the stats our most pressing worry has to be the midfield collectively

Lenny - returning from injury
Armo - Still to prove he can have an impact from a clearances perspective.
Steven - must have more impact in and under and deliver with accuracy

These guys are the extractors and that's where we are falling down. It's too much to expect ledger and ross to have a big impact with their limited development. get games into them but don't expect brownlow level input.

Dal and Monty are outside players, there weapons are accuracy, decision making and delivery.

Who can have an impact in the middle - CJ, Polo, Schneids, Milney? We need someone with more years to step up or we will have a gapping hole.

Rucks are a whole other issue and I've heard the big body argument but fact is we don't have them so it will have to be more atheletic/mobile types.

It is a worry.

[borderbarry]

I must remind everyone that Scott Watters has said that Lenny will be spending time forward this year, whether that means until he regains match fitness, or for the whole season, I dont know. But it does mean that it will be left to others to lift our midfield performance, as it should be.

[borderbarry]

Personally I am looking forward to see Lenny as a half forward. Bearing in mind how successful Aaron Hamill was, and Lenny is taller and just as tough, he could really inspire our forwards.

[samoht]

Great post scollop !

Bottom line - we need to achieve another 10-12 inside F50's per game to be up there with Collingwood and Geelong. We can try to achieve this goal with a different more attacking game plan/mind set and blend of youth, as you suggest.

but .. it's no use getting the ball into the F50 12 more times and kicking it to 3 or 4 midgets that will just get outmarked and outmuscled.
Lyon loved the forward midgets ! (he was small minded).

I think we need (to introduce/uncover/discover) fast medium sized forwards who will take marks and also lock it in there with fierce chasing and ferocious tackling.

We can't have a forward line comprising of one or two talls and 3-4 midgets .. Lyon got the mix wrong.
i.e. we need to move away from Lyon's idea of Schneider, Milne, Steven (and now we also have Saad) all playing in the forward line.
It doesn't work.

we need to finally get the mix and balance right ! .. i.e. get some fast medium sized players in there i.e. more marking, tackling and chasing power.

[gringo]

The stats are a reflection of game style under lyon. Don't move the ball unless you have a player in space and move it around even backwards.

The ruck is still a major concern as Big mac is still a handy around the ground tall but not a dominant ruck man. I wish we had speculated on Oren Stephenson or just a back up ruck,

Perhaps Pilchard didn't trust rucks after he had heaps at the hawks that couldn't get on the park. More likely they are going for a deliberate mosquito fleet of smalls with an emphasis on ball skills.

I am hoping that Watters gets his creativity in inventing a game plan right. History shows playing similars rarely works. I am hoping he is thinking left field and has the Carlton post fev forward line all over the ground or something similar. Pacey, clean players that run and link in a manic swarm while driving the ball forward and defending the out going ball with ferocity.

[avid]

Personally I am looking forward to see Lenny as a half forward. Bearing in mind how successful Aaron Hamill was, and Lenny is taller and just as tough, he could really inspire our forwards.

Speaking of short talls, borderbarry, your Alan Morrow now looks even more of a midget ruck.
I've just adjusted my avatar, which also went unsuitably square-shaped.
Go to User Control Panel (above)
Go to Profile.
Go to Edit avatar
I think you have to keep the longer dimension at 110 pixels, and reduce the other one to get the right relative proportions.
Play around with it until you do.
Can't have our great number 8 looking like that!

[Sobraz]

Personally I am looking forward to see Lenny as a half forward. Bearing in mind how successful Aaron Hamill was, and Lenny is taller and just as tough, he could really inspire our forwards.

Height isn't really an indication of their ability to play the position tho...

Hamill was very good over head, and played very tall given his actual cm's...

Lenny, whilst not terrible, hasn't anywhere near the hands overhead that Hamill had... He'll have to be more of an up the ground/extra midfield HFF than an actual goal scoring forward threat IMO...

The forward pressure/tackling element will be interesting viewing to see if he can match the intensity and tackle count up forward where it can get a bit lonely sometimes as he does in and around the middle...