Increasing interaction between the club and the members

[evertonfc]

In the wake of the AGM, I can't help but note the frustration over a perceived lack of engagement between the club's hierarchy and the members.

Our captain said this: "We are St Kilda ... be proud to be a St Kilda person" - well, we want to be this, Nick. But the club has to realise that it's a two-way street. We're all proud St Kilda people, but we want this to be 'our' club. We don't want to see it slipping away into being an Ikea club that stands for nothing.

And after reading this excellent report by Tom Biglia (thequarry -?) - http://www.redwhiteandblack.com.au/2011 ... -3rd-2011/ - it got me thinking, especially this closing paragraph.

Westaway made sure that the open session was cut right then and there, thus ending the best chance the members have of direct and serious interaction with the Club’s board for another year at a royal half-an-hour or so.

Indeed, this is something that I think it's worthwhile to have a mature discussion about the access of the members to the board they elect. Once a year is not enough; though smarter AFL clubs are finding ways to increase dialogue with their members. Richmond are known for the cocktail function; Collingwood's interaction with their members is - from all accounts - incredible, while I know Western Bulldogs fans who speak glowingly about access to players, board members and the club's working executive.

Now, I'm quite happy with the job being done by Westaway and co. ditto Michael Nettlefold, Ross Levin and the management of the club. I'm certainly not advocating anything that would encourage any form of disharmony. Things are certainly going well enough at the club on that front.

However, there seems a sense of disconnect between the members and the club. Especially, as one of the questions last night concerned the treatment of senior, established members. As a 20+ year member myself, I absolutely agree with these sentiments. I have noted Greg Westway finds the public spotlight uncomfortable - he himself has said this - but we are the members and this is our club. Sometimes I feel like this club needs to be reminded that without its members, it is nothing. That's not a threat, but the club's survival over 138 years has depended on the support of the members. It's our club - members, players, the board - and we all have a fair share.

I'm not going to stand here and say I have the answers, but I would like to hear from our proud and passionate member base about ways we can increase the feeling that this is our club and that we have some involvement in the club.

Increasingly, there does seem a feeling that we are handing over membership fees to a company, not a club. Before that happens, we should try to resuscitate the feeling of a club.

We're not a company. We're not a business. We're a football club. We're a passionate, emotional enterprise. Correctly harnessed, that passion and inclusion can create a powerful business model of its own - just look at Collingwood and Hawthorn, two clubs who bend over backwards to placate members.

My suggestion - and it's purely that, I'm really hopeful there are others - is that club perhaps undertake something like this to get the ball rolling.

Senior members' - 10+ years for social club members - cocktail party or dinner

- To be held mid-year (split-round time?)

- Held at the new club in Seaford - get us to know the knew surroundings, show us why this is the new home of our club. Don't just tell us...help us to feel it.

- Starting with opening statements from the senior club officials about themselves, perhaps their journey as St Kilda people and why they are passionate about the cause. It would increase our understanding of their role and why we should entrust them with the running of our club.

- All senior staff - not just board members - should be present. Some board members deal more with broader strategic issues than the day-to-day things that some members would like to ask about.

- A Q&A session with the members that lasts for much longer than 90 minutes. We need to find a way to weed out crap questions - they tend to consistently drag down the standards of the AGM question time, and it affects the serious questions asked. I'm not sure of a way around this - there almost needs to be some sort of vetting process. (Perhaps the q's need to be vetted by a senior group of fans to ensure there aren't more ridiculous questions - I know this happens at European football clubs for example, ensuring maximum discussing for key issues).

- The format of this may require altering. For example, membership and ticketing-related issues aren't especially the problem of the board - there should be an area of the room set aside for members to discuss potential issues. (Ticketing issues range from broad and important to rather petty, so it would perhaps make more sense to keep this separate from the general Q&A).

- Perhaps considering restricting numbers to the first 500 or so; it may prove a cost burden beyond this and dilute the intimacy of the evening (just a suggestion - I don't know what is a reasonable number here, whether it should be open for everyone or just a few). This would also ensure a sense of prestige in the evening.

- Keeping it to the social club membership helps re-establish the importance of the SOCIAL club, a fact many SC members here have picked up on, especially here at SS.

First things first, the club will not consider this if they think it is going to be open-season for fans to have a crack. They'll block it point blank and quite frankly, that's where the fans have to show some maturity.

If we want more interaction with the club, we need to reach out to the board and management, and they need to reach out from their end. So this is my suggestion - but as I say, others may have better ideas.

For most of us, the family day is a day you attended as a kid, or as a parent, but for no purpose other than light-hearted entertainment. So we need something else. Something beyond the coterie clubs and their closed shops (sorry, but that's how they are largely perceived, and that won't change. Not a criticism, just stating a fact, and yes, we should probably find out more about them but most of us don't have the time).

As I say, maturity is key to this...so that applies to this thread as well.

So guys, what do you think?

[iwantmeseats]

cant agree more, on all points. Send that to the club if so inclined.

[SainterK]

Yeah, send it to 'ask michael' or something Ev

[avid]

Well said evertonfc (even though I'm not a social club member myself). Feeling close to the club is fundamental, and there should be many ways to make it happen.

But ...

"an Ikea club that stands for nothing."

What's wrong with Ikea??
Are you pissed off that they abandoned Moorabbin?

[evertonfc]

Well said evertonfc (even though I'm not a social club member myself). Feeling close to the club is fundamental, and there should be many ways to make it happen.

But ...

"an Ikea club that stands for nothing."

What's wrong with Ikea??
Are you pissed off that they abandoned Moorabbin?

Ikea's great for handy, bleak little things that you need to replace every few years. Like generic outdoor furniture.

We're worth a bit more than that, eh Avid?

[Bernard Shakey]

Unfortunately it will never happen.

St Kilda Football Club is a business and, as is the case with most businesses in this country, don't give a stuff about their shareholders, or in this case members. As long as they turn a profit and stay at the pointy end of the ladder, we don't matter.

[evertonfc]

Unfortunately it will never happen.

St Kilda Football Club is a business and, as is the case with most businesses in this country, don't give a stuff about their shareholders, or in this case members. As long as they turn a profit and stay at the pointy end of the ladder, we don't matter.

Well with thinking like that, it won't Bernard.

I feel your disenchantment. But instead of us just taking our medicine and being forced to sit in the corner and "support or shut up", why not have a crack at trying to change it?

Let's be honest. This club has no idea about being pro-active with fans - but just because they're a bit slow on this front doesn't mean we have to be muted onlookers.

Yes, I've previously wanted the club to reach out to us, at their request, not ours. But it ain't going to happen - they wouldn't know where to start.

So I don't see the harm with a little nudging.

All of them (though I'm not sure about Greg Westaway) read this site - we know this - so I'd like to think they might take notice of some of the positive suggestions in place.

Especially now that we have a CEO like Michael Nettlefold, who has a stated aim of bringing the club closer to the fans and creating a better sense of community. Here's a great way to start.

[jonesy]

It is a worry with what the club stands for,or what's it's soul? I guess it's a problem for a lot of the clubs in this era with the game becoming corporatised in order to survive. The successful clubs have there rich history to fall back on,we don't. In the past we always had Moorabbin,a spiritual collaseum.

Now it's gone and we have moved in the middle of nowhere. Our only premiership captain has just died. It would be great if the club did something significant in recognition of the doc. A 20 minute tribute before our first home game or something

The club needs to make the most of the limited success we've had. Show highlights before games on the big screen of big wins,star former players,we've had enough of them. They also need to find a way to give something back to the people. They just take these days, like you said. Stop trying to make massive profits out of the average punter,they're becoming like a bank,give us back something.

We have no home now,we go to a corporate reserved seated stadium each week that lacks the atmosphere of era's gone by. Find ways to get the crowd involvement back on gameday

The supporter base is crying out for somewhere to watch interstate games together as a group. Surely a venue can be found that holds 1000 people or so where fellow supporters can sit with each other and watch the interstate games....and are also able to drink a beer or two if they want! It used to be great popping into Linton st watching interstate games with other sainters

The club needs to close the gap between itself and it's supporters. It's felt like the past 6-7 years a distance has formed between the two. The supporters are cast aside as almost a nuisance. It is people power that has kept this club alive through so many dark periods! Sure the players need there privacy and all the resources they can get,but we want to feel like we are on the ride with them,not just watching from a far

[Bernard Shakey]

Unfortunately it will never happen.

St Kilda Football Club is a business and, as is the case with most businesses in this country, don't give a stuff about their shareholders, or in this case members. As long as they turn a profit and stay at the pointy end of the ladder, we don't matter.

Well with thinking like that, it won't Bernard.

I feel your disenchantment. But instead of us just taking our medicine and being forced to sit in the corner and "support or shut up", why not have a crack at trying to change it?

Let's be honest. This club has no idea about being pro-active with fans - but just because they're a bit slow on this front doesn't mean we have to be muted onlookers.

Yes, I've previously wanted the club to reach out to us, at their request, not ours. But it ain't going to happen - they wouldn't know where to start.

So I don't see the harm with a little nudging.

All of them (though I'm not sure about Greg Westaway) read this site - we know this - so I'd like to think they might take notice of some of the positive suggestions in place.

Especially now that we have a CEO like Michael Nettlefold, who has a stated aim of bringing the club closer to the fans and creating a better sense of community. Here's a great way to start.

Many have tried and failed evertonfc, maybe they're ready to listen now. I hope so, but somehow doubt it with this coach, who only believes in secret men's business.

[plugger66]

Unfortunately it will never happen.

St Kilda Football Club is a business and, as is the case with most businesses in this country, don't give a stuff about their shareholders, or in this case members. As long as they turn a profit and stay at the pointy end of the ladder, we don't matter.

100% agree. Nice feel good stuff from Everton but the facts are clear with our club. Whilst we are winning we get plenty of members and when we are struggling, we struggle for members. It has happened for years so we can be touchy feely now but it will not help when we drop down the ladder and on the other hand when we again get back up the ladder people will join what ever the club give them.

[Legendary]

You could actually make it "pay" for itself by charging a premium for Social Club members to be "Foundation" (a one-off charge), or by giving them this "status" after a certain number of consecutive years - e.g. 10 years.

Therefore people could join by paying the extra to get better access to players/coaches/staff etc.

This "Foundation" club could have a ballot each week for say 5-10 passes for the rooms after the game? It could have a really nice cocktail function along the line of what evertonfc suggested above.

It would provide incentive for people to stay long term members at a social club level (higher paying membership), and also provide new cashflow for people who wanted to pay (say $500 extra) to get this privilege.

E.g. - I would be someone who would pay the extra. I've been a member for 12 years but only social club for 4 years. However I would pay an extra charge to gain access to this function and the benefits.

Could also be a table raffled each week at the Presidents lunch to this group of members.

Initiatives like that would cost little and provide a great sense of inclusion for those Social club members of 10+ years standing, who would have a chance to be a part of it.

You are looking at a small but still large enough group of around 5000 people.

[SinCitySaint]

The club do not want to have to soil themselves by mixing with the supporters. The AGM made that clear enough, Westaway could not have got out of there fast enough.

The club has very deliberately perpetrated an arms length approach to supporters. Give us your money but don't come too close.
Look at the post grand final function, the players came out as a group and remained out there for about 20 mins before retreating back to the sanctity of the rooms. No signing of autographs for the kids or anything. Yes, they were hurting but at least they had their excessive pay-packets to help soften the blow. Unlike some of us who over the course of the season would have spent in excessive of a $1000 following the team. You could argue that the club don't owe us the supporters anything and I would say good because they owe us nothing and have promptly delivered.
Yes I have paid my money and made my choice. I am stuck with the club now and they know it. They know they can treat the supporters like dirt and they will still get our money that is why they don't care.

[GrumpyOne]

They know they can treat the supporters like dirt and they will still get our money that is why they don't care.

Very, very true.

[Junction Oval]

Fully agree with all that has been said. I have made a couple of written complaints (together with suggestions) re. the Social Club over the past couple of years, without response, UNTIL I elevated it this year, but received only "a pat on the head" response - better than a foot up the backside I suppose.

What's needed is for a person to be appointed to the Board, who has a dedicated "member focus" and is willing to take a stand on member-related matters of interest. It needs to be and can be done in a positive pro-active way. IMO there are too many lawyers on the board. Surely room can be made for a "member's person."

[GrumpyOne]

Fully agree with all that has been said. I have made a couple of written complaints (together with suggestions) re. the Social Club over the past couple of years, without response, UNTIL I elevated it this year, but received only "a pat on the head" response - better than a foot up the backside I suppose.

What's needed is for a person to be appointed to the Board, who has a dedicated "member focus" and is willing to take a stand on member-related matters of interest. It needs to be and can be done in a positive pro-active way. IMO there are too many lawyers on the board. Surely room can be made for a "member's person."

Do you think Saintsational has enough member power to elect someone?

[therabbitinthehat]

back in the GT era the club used to run a paid program where you could spend the afternoon/evening taking a tour of the facilities, having a quick chat to the players (who were available) and then an informal brief/debrief with the specialist coaches and GT about how they review a previous game and prepare for the next one. From memory they held 2 or 3 of these over the course of a year.

I attended one with Mr Magic and it's still one of the best club experiences I've been involved with. It gave you a real feel for the professional side of the club and you got to see 'behind the scenes' as to what actually happens between games. It also gives you more fo a sense of being an 'insider' rather than being held at rms length.

A similar program might be worthwhile persuing nowdays - or possibly linked to a new tier of social club membership as suggested above.

[Enrico_Misso]

There's the Season Launch this Friday at Crown.

Should be a good night.
But not cheap.

[Junction Oval]

Yes, no doubt it will be a great night. I have been to a few functions also, but as others have said, it seems that the average supporter who struggles to pay membership for family and children, is no longer being catered for in any meaningful way - at a lower cost level.

The club is structuring things for those where they can generate the most income from and clearly, the money is needed and there is nothing wrong with that. If you can afford the contribution, then it's a great way to be associated with the club. For the rest, there isn't any "second level" of club involvement for them and this needs to be addressed.

[Eastern]

Yeah, send it to 'ask michael' or something Ev

Michael ignores anything he doesn't want to discuss. This topic would fall into that category !!

[Eastern]

In the wake of the AGM, I can't help but note the frustration over a perceived lack of engagement between the club's hierarchy and the members.

Our captain said this: "We are St Kilda ... be proud to be a St Kilda person" - well, we want to be this, Nick. But the club has to realise that it's a two-way street. We're all proud St Kilda people, but we want this to be 'our' club. We don't want to see it slipping away into being an Ikea club that stands for nothing.

And after reading this excellent report by Tom Biglia (thequarry -?) - http://www.redwhiteandblack.com.au/2011 ... -3rd-2011/ - it got me thinking, especially this closing paragraph.

Westaway made sure that the open session was cut right then and there, thus ending the best chance the members have of direct and serious interaction with the Club’s board for another year at a royal half-an-hour or so.

Indeed, this is something that I think it's worthwhile to have a mature discussion about the access of the members to the board they elect. Once a year is not enough; though smarter AFL clubs are finding ways to increase dialogue with their members. Richmond are known for the cocktail function; Collingwood's interaction with their members is - from all accounts - incredible, while I know Western Bulldogs fans who speak glowingly about access to players, board members and the club's working executive.

Now, I'm quite happy with the job being done by Westaway and co. ditto Michael Nettlefold, Ross Levin and the management of the club. I'm certainly not advocating anything that would encourage any form of disharmony. Things are certainly going well enough at the club on that front.

However, there seems a sense of disconnect between the members and the club. Especially, as one of the questions last night concerned the treatment of senior, established members. As a 20+ year member myself, I absolutely agree with these sentiments. I have noted Greg Westway finds the public spotlight uncomfortable - he himself has said this - but we are the members and this is our club. Sometimes I feel like this club needs to be reminded that without its members, it is nothing. That's not a threat, but the club's survival over 138 years has depended on the support of the members. It's our club - members, players, the board - and we all have a fair share.

I'm not going to stand here and say I have the answers, but I would like to hear from our proud and passionate member base about ways we can increase the feeling that this is our club and that we have some involvement in the club.

Increasingly, there does seem a feeling that we are handing over membership fees to a company, not a club. Before that happens, we should try to resuscitate the feeling of a club.

We're not a company. We're not a business. We're a football club. We're a passionate, emotional enterprise. Correctly harnessed, that passion and inclusion can create a powerful business model of its own - just look at Collingwood and Hawthorn, two clubs who bend over backwards to placate members.

My suggestion - and it's purely that, I'm really hopeful there are others - is that club perhaps undertake something like this to get the ball rolling.

Senior members' - 10+ years for social club members - cocktail party or dinner

- To be held mid-year (split-round time?)

- Held at the new club in Seaford - get us to know the knew surroundings, show us why this is the new home of our club. Don't just tell us...help us to feel it.

- Starting with opening statements from the senior club officials about themselves, perhaps their journey as St Kilda people and why they are passionate about the cause. It would increase our understanding of their role and why we should entrust them with the running of our club.

- All senior staff - not just board members - should be present. Some board members deal more with broader strategic issues than the day-to-day things that some members would like to ask about.

- A Q&A session with the members that lasts for much longer than 90 minutes. We need to find a way to weed out crap questions - they tend to consistently drag down the standards of the AGM question time, and it affects the serious questions asked. I'm not sure of a way around this - there almost needs to be some sort of vetting process. (Perhaps the q's need to be vetted by a senior group of fans to ensure there aren't more ridiculous questions - I know this happens at European football clubs for example, ensuring maximum discussing for key issues).

- The format of this may require altering. For example, membership and ticketing-related issues aren't especially the problem of the board - there should be an area of the room set aside for members to discuss potential issues. (Ticketing issues range from broad and important to rather petty, so it would perhaps make more sense to keep this separate from the general Q&A).

- Perhaps considering restricting numbers to the first 500 or so; it may prove a cost burden beyond this and dilute the intimacy of the evening (just a suggestion - I don't know what is a reasonable number here, whether it should be open for everyone or just a few). This would also ensure a sense of prestige in the evening.

- Keeping it to the social club membership helps re-establish the importance of the SOCIAL club, a fact many SC members here have picked up on, especially here at SS.

First things first, the club will not consider this if they think it is going to be open-season for fans to have a crack. They'll block it point blank and quite frankly, that's where the fans have to show some maturity.

If we want more interaction with the club, we need to reach out to the board and management, and they need to reach out from their end. So this is my suggestion - but as I say, others may have better ideas.

For most of us, the family day is a day you attended as a kid, or as a parent, but for no purpose other than light-hearted entertainment. So we need something else. Something beyond the coterie clubs and their closed shops (sorry, but that's how they are largely perceived, and that won't change. Not a criticism, just stating a fact, and yes, we should probably find out more about them but most of us don't have the time).

As I say, maturity is key to this...so that applies to this thread as well.

So guys, what do you think?

Whilst this is all very good stuff, it's probably a bit too top end to be a good starting point. What I would like to see for a starting point would be for members of the Board/exec start the ball rolling by engaging with the fans at the ground on Game Day. They could spread themselves out between the reserved seating areas on L1,2&3, the cheersquad, the Victory Room, the Whitten Bar and any other place where numbers of saints fans congregate pre-game. It would only take up 15-30 minutes of their time and would mean a hell of a lot to the members/fans. It couldn't be all that difficult to organize, could it? !!

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Seems as good a place as any to express some questions that've been nagging at me for a while now as I contemplate things like the value of m'ship for my 2-year old son (btw, the m'ship packs that the kids get are incredible. great value).

For the first couple of months of every year, we hear about how the members are the "life's blood" of AFL and clubs. We hear that the trouble for North, or for Port, is about paying members...

Is this even true anymore?

Basically, if we're a 45K club at an avg member spend of $200 per annum, that's 9 Million dollars. Which is good, it covers our footy payroll, but when you're talking about a billion dollar TV deal, even if we were to guess that the Saints to get a full 40 Million (~1/16 of 1 billion), it's surely a fair guess that even if we're still the "lifeblood" today, we won't be for long.

So it would appear we're about to turn a corner, and I wonder what the impact will be. While there are many (and while I'm one, I'm hardly devoted to a cause) who don't really expect a community from club, clearly there is a core group who do.

The tone I read in this thread is the club is already there - we're hardcore fans, not a "part of" the community of "St Kilda people". We're outside the bubble. Now, what makes this really interesting is that as everton says, the order of the day is communicating better with customers. Social media has corporates, governments, and media all trying to establish a better conversation and dialogue.

However, this is never going to be the same as it was. How will the long term (10 years +) members react to the voice of the club being online (possibly not being accessible physically)? Is it really practical and/or desirable for a club which needs to have visions of "Red Sox Nation" and Manchester's "Red Army" in their future to be trying to figure out how to grant "insider" access?

Conversely, is there any reason not to be grandfathering out old-style membership interaction in some way that lets the marketeers quantify what they (the club, not the members) are losing?

[Saints43]

Basically, if we're a 45K club at an avg member spend of $200 per annum, that's 9 Million dollars. Which is good, it covers our footy payroll, but when you're talking about a billion dollar TV deal, even if we were to guess that the Saints to get a full 40 Million (~1/16 of 1 billion), it's surely a fair guess that even if we're still the "lifeblood" today, we won't be for long.

Surely memberships sold is the same as the TV ratings sample. Advertisers don't buy sponsorship based on the fact that a certain number of people are known to have watched a particular station but based on the representative sample.

I'm sure our memberships are worth more than the $200-odd that they receive directly. We provide the 'proof' of brand association for the many, many more millions of dollars invested into the club from other sources.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

I don't want to get caught up in the financial numbers side of this debate. But I think the bottom line is that we regularly hear from the club's leaders that we (the members) are the lifeblood of the club, and that without us the club is nothing.

If that is the case, then we deserve a little more than a token Q&A session at the AGM. I don't expect the club to engage is a full-on discussion on every decision that is made, but they show the members a little more love.

[Thinline]

PersonallyI don't care if I never exchange a word with the board/leaders. I just want the team to win.

[spert]

If we had 1000 members and won a premiership, would that be any different to having 40,000 members and winning a premiership? There's a huge number of Saints fans out there in the world who are not members, and I suspect if a fan in Iceland woke up one morning to the news that the club won the 2011 premiership, they would be rejoicing that the Saints won another flag. The President and board have to direct the club and deliver the results to ensure the brand of St Kilda is a success more than anything these days, as a marketable product is always desirable.