Last years recruiting

[plugger66]

Lets look at last years recruiting.

Lovett Gone
Winmar 5 games and injured most of the year
Smith Gone
Johnson Worse than the previous year at Sandy

Rookies
Hutchins Gone
Walsh A chance
Archer In trouble

Was never going to have an effect on this year but will have a huge effect in 2-3 years time. Would be our worst year of recruiting for 15 years.

[Saintersss]

Yeh, it was pretty poor.

Why is Hutchins' gone?

[plugger66]

Yeh, it was pretty poor.

Why is Hutchins' gone?

Maybe he isnt.

[barks4eva]

Thomas selecting Ball when Butterss wanted and urged him to take Judd has cost us probably three premierships already!

Then putting Ball on $600,000 a year, FAIR DINKUM, didn't that eventually cause problems!

So I'd rate that as the biggest recruiting stuff up of all time!

Thomas helped set us up for a decade of sustained failure!

Then we have Jack Riewoldt there for the taking and we took Armitage!

I was praying we would select Jack and .........oh dear, now apparently we need a Full Forward!

How many times can this club continue to shoot itself in the foot?

Now we are off to Seaford, FFS, will bite us big time!

When players don't nominate us as their preferred destination, you'll know why!

[plugger66]

Thomas selecting Ball when Butterss wanted and urged him to take Judd has cost us probably three premierships already!

Then putting Ball on $600,000 a year, FAIR DINKUM, didn't that eventually cause problems!

So I'd rate that as the biggest recruiting stuff up of all time!

Thomas helped set us up for a decade of sustained failure!

Then we have Jack Riewoldt there for the taking and we took Armitage!

I was praying we would select Jack and .........oh dear, now apparently we need a Full Forward!

How many times can this club continue to shoot itself in the foot?

Now we are off to Seaford, FFS, will bite us big time!

When players don't nominate us as their preferred destination, you'll know why!

First 2 sentences are lies so I stopped reading after that.

[saintsRrising]

Yes last year was dreadful.

We poached the assistant of the Geolong recruiting guy because the Cats have in recent years a pretty awesome record in identifying talent.

We may have poached the wrong guy.

Unless he has a much better year this year, and I am talking draft picks as players like Lovett would not be his call, you would want to get another recruiting guy in.

[St Ick]

Recruiting in the past has been somewhat 'safe'. We got Ball over Judd, no doubt because Ball was a safe bet and Judd had suspect shoulders. I don't know anything about the Thomas/Butters lovechild scenario so wont comment on that.

We didn't go Cousins as he was too risky but then people complain as we could have won the 09 flag with Cuz rotating through the midfield. Then last year we took a number of risks, Lovett, Peake, Smith, etc they all had significant downsides but potentially brilliant. Looks like the risk didn't come off... so which way do we want to go this year?

Looks like we'll just go kids this year, I've made previous posts re lack of success from all of the recycled despite popular opinion. While a part of me would love for our name to be included in trade week discussions with Walker, Sherman, Clark and the likes.... maybe just maybe its time for a different plan.

[Dan Warna]

Damn Thomas he stole my cookies as well.

I also heard he rapes cattle on the weekend and uses his children as a chop shop for body parts to the middle east.

He's also the biggest drug runner in south east asia..

he may have a baby face but beware, THIS MAN is the mastermind

follow this link to see him with two children he intends to sell to the middle east as child sex slaves...

Beware thomas, he's out to destroy st kilda...

http://www.mountbarkerfootballclub.org. ... _large.jpg

[/url]

[St Ick]

Pretty sure Dale Thomas had nothing to do with recruiting Luke Ball to St Kilda

[Dan Warna]

Pretty sure this thread if a stupid regurgitation of useless old s*** anyway.

[bigred]

Who the f*** is Luke Ball?

[Middo]

Lets look at last years recruiting.

Lovett Gone
Winmar 5 games and injured most of the year
Smith Gone
Johnson Worse than the previous year at Sandy

Rookies
Hutchins Gone
Walsh A chance
Archer In trouble

Was never going to have an effect on this year but will have a huge effect in 2-3 years time. Would be our worst year of recruiting for 15 years.

Hindsight is so great to help make your point..Think Lovett would have made the effect or impact we needed. So easy now to look back and act like some great wise expert !!! Maybe Winmar might prove you wrong ..?
These decisions were made based on the fact we were close to a flag not planning for the 2012-2014 seasons.

[Legendary]

Winmar and Walsh could save it.

But VERY VERY poor recruiting of new talent.

Need to dramatically lift our game this year. Need to identify another Gilbert, Gwilt, Fisher later in the draft.

[goods]

Thomas selecting Ball when Butterss wanted and urged him to take Judd has cost us probably three premierships already!

Then putting Ball on $600,000 a year, FAIR DINKUM, didn't that eventually cause problems!

So I'd rate that as the biggest recruiting stuff up of all time!

Thomas helped set us up for a decade of sustained failure!

Then we have Jack Riewoldt there for the taking and we took Armitage!

I was praying we would select Jack and .........oh dear, now apparently we need a Full Forward!

How many times can this club continue to shoot itself in the foot?

Now we are off to Seaford, FFS, will bite us big time!

When players don't nominate us as their preferred destination, you'll know why!

I don't see Seaford as an issue at all! Live in Brighton etc and train in Seaford why is that an issue??? I would prefer to train by the sea than on punt road with all the fumes!

1) Huge growth belt down the south east should see our supporter base grow and grow.
2) Fresh air, have you been to morrabin?? its so refreshing down there
3) Removed from the CBD and nightclubs (brighton people tend to stay in brighton)

Seaford = non issue

Players will come to us when we are a powerhouse club and we are winning flags

[vacuous space]

Hindsight is so great to help make your point..Think Lovett would have made the effect or impact we needed. So easy now to look back and act like some great wise expert !!! Maybe Winmar might prove you wrong ..?
These decisions were made based on the fact we were close to a flag not planning for the 2012-2014 seasons.

There were enough dissenting voices last year that it's hardly a hindsight argument.

1. We trade our top pick for a guy who mailed in his last finals performance. He might have got us over the line if he'd even showed up. Lovett made Gram look like the picture of consistency. Meanwhile, Bastinac gets a regular game for North and Pittard is named at least as an emergency every week toward the end of the year for Port.

2. We turn down picks 25 and 62 for Ball on account of it's not good enough for a former captain blah, blah, blah. Aside from Carlton losing their brains for McLean, most seem to agree that a second round pick for a damaged and not altogether needed player would have been fair. We could have had Mitch Duncan, but no. We didn't want to make the Pies better, so instead we made ourselves worse.

3. We pick a midfielder at 32 who struggles to run out games at the junior champs. He puts in a terrible performance at draft camp. We then pick him up with what winds up being our first pick. Even if he doesn't end up injured most of the year, where does he fit in? He'll probably never have the tank to be a midfielder. He's got size. Maybe running out of defence. Either way, it seems a bit early for such a flawed player.

4. Brett Peake. Peake was a lot better than I'd expected, but was he enough of a difference to warrant a trade? Would we have been any worse off with, say, David Armitage, Jarryn Geary or Jack Steven in his place? I don't think so. So we lose pick 48, don't get any better, get a bit older and have to pick another inadequate senior player later in a draft we don't like.

5. Smith, Pattison, Johnson. Thanks to our wheeling and dealing, we wind up with three picks we don't want. Lyon walks out of the draft and says that everyone we wanted was gone by fifty. We had traded away two picks in the top-50 and turned down another from Collingwood. We could have had four picks we wanted in the top-50. Instead we wind up with Winmar and Peake.

All of this on the back of the 08 draft which looked to be a step in the right direction. In 08, we picked up some immediate help in Ray and still managed to gather a bunch of quality young kids we liked. So what happened between 08 and 09? We lost a GF. Did we became convinced we needed outside help to get us over the line? The selected 22 was good enough to win us a flag in 09 - they just didn't. If these guys have read Moneyball...

We nearly pinched one this year, but ended up looking further away in the end. And yet now we're talking of keeping our picks. Don't get me wrong - I think it's the right move. I think it's weird given how we reacted to the 09 loss.

[plugger66]

Lets look at last years recruiting.

Lovett Gone
Winmar 5 games and injured most of the year
Smith Gone
Johnson Worse than the previous year at Sandy

Rookies
Hutchins Gone
Walsh A chance
Archer In trouble

Was never going to have an effect on this year but will have a huge effect in 2-3 years time. Would be our worst year of recruiting for 15 years.

Hindsight is so great to help make your point..Think Lovett would have made the effect or impact we needed. So easy now to look back and act like some great wise expert !!! Maybe Winmar might prove you wrong ..?
These decisions were made based on the fact we were close to a flag not planning for the 2012-2014 seasons.

Your lack of knowledge is amazing. Of course it is in hindsight. I am just stating facts but as you have no idea I suppose it is hard to understand. You really have less clues than Alicia Silverstone.

[Middo]

Lets look at last years recruiting.

Lovett Gone
Winmar 5 games and injured most of the year
Smith Gone
Johnson Worse than the previous year at Sandy

Rookies
Hutchins Gone
Walsh A chance
Archer In trouble

Was never going to have an effect on this year but will have a huge effect in 2-3 years time. Would be our worst year of recruiting for 15 years.

Hindsight is so great to help make your point..Think Lovett would have made the effect or impact we needed. So easy now to look back and act like some great wise expert !!! Maybe Winmar might prove you wrong ..?
These decisions were made based on the fact we were close to a flag not planning for the 2012-2014 seasons.

Your lack of knowledge is amazing. Of course it is in hindsight. I am just stating facts but as you have no idea I suppose it is hard to understand. You really have less clues than Alicia Silverstone.

Ha Ha you are so funny Plug...but who gives a flying F#ck about your facts , Oh cryptic one !!!

[Middo]

Hindsight is so great to help make your point..Think Lovett would have made the effect or impact we needed. So easy now to look back and act like some great wise expert !!! Maybe Winmar might prove you wrong ..?
These decisions were made based on the fact we were close to a flag not planning for the 2012-2014 seasons.

There were enough dissenting voices last year that it's hardly a hindsight argument.

1. We trade our top pick for a guy who mailed in his last finals performance. He might have got us over the line if he'd even showed up. Lovett made Gram look like the picture of consistency. Meanwhile, Bastinac gets a regular game for North and Pittard is named at least as an emergency every week toward the end of the year for Port.

2. We turn down picks 25 and 62 for Ball on account of it's not good enough for a former captain blah, blah, blah. Aside from Carlton losing their brains for McLean, most seem to agree that a second round pick for a damaged and not altogether needed player would have been fair. We could have had Mitch Duncan, but no. We didn't want to make the Pies better, so instead we made ourselves worse.

3. We pick a midfielder at 32 who struggles to run out games at the junior champs. He puts in a terrible performance at draft camp. We then pick him up with what winds up being our first pick. Even if he doesn't end up injured most of the year, where does he fit in? He'll probably never have the tank to be a midfielder. He's got size. Maybe running out of defence. Either way, it seems a bit early for such a flawed player.

4. Brett Peake. Peake was a lot better than I'd expected, but was he enough of a difference to warrant a trade? Would we have been any worse off with, say, David Armitage, Jarryn Geary or Jack Steven in his place? I don't think so. So we lose pick 48, don't get any better, get a bit older and have to pick another inadequate senior player later in a draft we don't like.

5. Smith, Pattison, Johnson. Thanks to our wheeling and dealing, we wind up with three picks we don't want. Lyon walks out of the draft and says that everyone we wanted was gone by fifty. We had traded away two picks in the top-50 and turned down another from Collingwood. We could have had four picks we wanted in the top-50. Instead we wind up with Winmar and Peake.

All of this on the back of the 08 draft which looked to be a step in the right direction. In 08, we picked up some immediate help in Ray and still managed to gather a bunch of quality young kids we liked. So what happened between 08 and 09? We lost a GF. Did we became convinced we needed outside help to get us over the line? The selected 22 was good enough to win us a flag in 09 - they just didn't. If these guys have read Moneyball...

We nearly pinched one this year, but ended up looking further away in the end. And yet now we're talking of keeping our picks. Don't get me wrong - I think it's the right move. I think it's weird given how we reacted to the 09 loss.

Agree , but really think Lovett plays we win.We needed pace and kicking skills/goals and got it all in one .Just a pity he never kept his end of the bargain.

[vacuous space]

Agree , but really think Lovett plays we win.

I think there's every chance that if Lovett plays, he does nothing. For every big game he turned in a good performance there were three that he'd turn out the lights and just float. A lot of those games were the fierce contests, which at least GF1 was. His last game in a final against Adelaide was a special kind of pathetic.

If he hadn't had his flaws, there's no way we get him as cheap as we did. Look at what Hawthorn paid for a less flawed version of Lovett. I still question whether a team that was as close to a flag as we were needs to grab a player like that. Geelong had tried to add him after they'd lost the GF in 08, but they were looking at a straight swap for Primall, who ended up going for a third round pick. The value was much better.

IMO, the club needed players for the future a lot more than we needed one for now. I am still of that opinion. This team has the players to push for a flag in 2011, so it makes more sense to me to get more young players to keep the team as competitive as possible for as long as possible. I know there are plenty who will disagree, particularly in the wake of last Saturday's loss.

[3rd generation saint]

Gee, I don't remember anyone on this forum jumping up and down with what the Filth was offering us for Ball and saying make the deal!, make the deal!
I doubt there was anyone on this forum believed after the deal didn't go through that Ball would even end up at Collingwood because they had to wait to pick 30.
Unfortunately, Lovett was a much better footballer that he is an inteliigent human being, if he had been smart, he and 21 other St.Kilda players may have premiership medallions now.
Instead, he decided he just wanted to remain a drunken fool.
As someone said, hindsight is great, unfortunately no one I know owns a De Lorean with the flux capacitor accesory.

[SainterK]

This year has certainly proven we needed pace (Lovett) and good foot skills (J Smith - wasn't he good in this dept)

Intent behind recruiting them was correct, wasn't it?

[noob]

nothing beats Barry brooks for picks 6 and 31. That was like giving up those picks for trent knobel

[To the top]

On the flip side, over the past few seasons we have got the likes of Gram, King, Dawson, Schnieder, Gardiner, Ray, Dempster, Peake, Smith and Pattinson.

Plus we have got mature age WAFL/SANFL types in Fisher, Jones and Miles.

You ain't going to win them all.

But particularly we have got good service from Gram, Dawson, Schnieder, Gardiner and Ray who are all easily in our best 22.

Add Jones and Fisher - and I would expect Miles to consolidate his position in 2011.

Yes, choosing Ball because of his family pedigree in football (and his academic success) was a disappointment and particularly as the Club then let him stay out of football for his first 12 months to complete his Year 12 - I always noted his references to watching Judd and Hodge and comparing his progress to them as a flaw in his character, and it is ironic that both Judd and Hodge are in Sheahan's top 10 players with Ball no-where to be seen.

The calls on Lovett (correct on-field attributes) and Smith (remember Gardiner?) have not delivered - but that is life and it is football.

Sometimes you see something and you are rewarded in your call (like Watson in Australian cricket which saw flack come at me from certain quarters when I said he was the most valuable player in Australian cricket both with bat, with ball - and in the field), and sometimes you are wrong.

I would like to see the likes of Simpkin push on from his season at Sandringham and consolidate in the central defensivfe position - freeing Fisher - plus see the return of the very talented Clarke and the emergence of the likes of Stanley, Steven, Armitage and Miles as regular league players based on the glimpses they have shown - and some others like the two 192cm players, Lynch and Cahill plus the mid-sized Heyne develop.

Plus Walsh as a wild card.

Then there is the romance of another Winmar in the wings - plus who we draft this year.

We have a couple of players pushing past 30 - and of these I view both Gardiner and Hayes continuing to be vital to our cause.

That leaves a couple of opportunities to refresh - plus, hopefully, pressure will come on the likes of McQualter, Eddy, Geary who I quite frankly think we must improve on to take the next step - and whilst Riewoldt, Koschitzke (with a fixed ankle) and Hayes can continue to contribute as they currently do.

[Beej]

Agree , but really think Lovett plays we win.

I think there's every chance that if Lovett plays, he does nothing. For every big game he turned in a good performance there were three that he'd turn out the lights and just float. A lot of those games were the fierce contests, which at least GF1 was. His last game in a final against Adelaide was a special kind of pathetic.

Agreed.

Not one player would've won us the GF. It was Collingwood's system that beat us - the sheer weight of footy in our defensive 50 due to their intensity and relentless pressure was just immense. Combine that with our lack of composure whenever we had the footy and there's nothing Lovett can do.

System/attitude.

Your OP in this thread was a good read too.

[#1GILL]

Agree , but really think Lovett plays we win.

I think there's every chance that if Lovett plays, he does nothing. For every big game he turned in a good performance there were three that he'd turn out the lights and just float. A lot of those games were the fierce contests, which at least GF1 was. His last game in a final against Adelaide was a special kind of pathetic.

Agreed.

Not one player would've won us the GF. .

There is a very real possibilty that Luke Ball would have won us the GF.
Not because of his playing ability, but because he seems to have given the Pies everything they need to know to bring us down.