Just be your bloody self

[MC Gusto]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 72,00.html

[MC Gusto]

Interesting stats between 06 and 08

I like him. I like his style and I think that the so called 'negative' play has been overplayed a bit.

Great teams build attack from a solid defence there is no doubt about that

[Saints43]

Interesting stats between 06 and 08

It's only interesting if you believe that the team didn't do any defending before he got here. He never mentions percentage - a bit better guide of your ability to mix attack/defence.

2004 128.0
2005 133.3
2006 118.4
2007 96.5
2008 110.6

There is no doubt that when RL arrived we went overboard defensively.

That's why he announced he was changing the gameplan at the 2007 season AGM.

It wasn't 'a perception' that he was overly negative in the first year. It was a fact.

[older saint]

Interesting stats between 06 and 08

It's only interesting if you believe that the team didn't do any defending before he got here. He never mentions percentage - a bit better guide of your ability to mix attack/defence.

2004 128.0
2005 133.3
2006 118.4
2007 96.5
2008 110.6

There is no doubt that when RL arrived we went overboard defensively.

That's why he announced he was changing the gameplan at the 2007 season AGM.

It wasn't 'a perception' that he was overly negative in the first year. It was a fact.

Percentage is not a realistic argument because we lost more games in 2007 than the previous 2 years, therefore our percentage is going to be lower whether that be a score of 150 -130 or 90-70

[MC Gusto]

yes i would say goals kicked is a measure of your attack

goals against a measure of defence

percentage is the team balance between the two

so if you are talking specifically about how prolific (or not) you were in attack you can only look at goals kicked

[Saints43]

Interesting stats between 06 and 08

It's only interesting if you believe that the team didn't do any defending before he got here. He never mentions percentage - a bit better guide of your ability to mix attack/defence.

2004 128.0
2005 133.3
2006 118.4
2007 96.5
2008 110.6

There is no doubt that when RL arrived we went overboard defensively.

That's why he announced he was changing the gameplan at the 2007 season AGM.

It wasn't 'a perception' that he was overly negative in the first year. It was a fact.

Percentage is not a realistic argument because we lost more games in 2007 than the previous 2 years, therefore our percentage is going to be lower whether that be a score of 150 -130 or 90-70

We lost more games because our percentage was no good. We didn't kick enough goals for the amount we were able to stop.

Percentage is a far more valid way to assess a season than 'we kicked 10 more goals'.

And the percentage difference is significant.

Someone disagreed with me last week about wether RL 'talks a good game'... This is spin doctoring.

[MC Gusto]

but he is talking purely about our ability to attack as people were labelling us negative...therefore i dont think it is spin to say we kicked more goals. it would be spin to say we were a better side but he is commenting in reference to being asked about 'negative / defensive' football

[Saints43]

Fair enough. He's right. We kicked 10 more goals in 2008 than in 2006.

The reason he brought that stat out is to smash the perception that the Saints play stodgy footy.

And Lyon hopes that list of names will help smash another perception: that the Saints play stodgy footy.

He is quick to fire off a question: Who averaged more goals - the Saints of 2006 or '08?

"We kicked 10 more goals than in '06. That might surprise some people," Lyon said.

IMO we did play 'stodgy' footy for most of 2008.

So I consider the pulling of this one fact to support his argument to be spin doctoring.

[bigcarl]

we're a more defensive side. you've only to watch us to work that out.

the percentages tell the same story.

[ctqs]

We kicked 10 more goals last year than in 2006 because we smashed Essendon in the last round.

[Saints43]

And Lyon hopes that list of names will help smash another perception: that the Saints play stodgy footy.

He is quick to fire off a question: Who averaged more goals - the Saints of 2006 or '08?

"We kicked 10 more goals than in '06. That might surprise some people," Lyon said.

And someone also needs to explain to him that averaging more goals in '08 is not necessarily the same as kicking 10 more goals in '08. Especially considering we played two extra games. Has he really done the maths?

[Cairnsman]

Geez! I get really excited about 2009 (and beyond).

Considering we can maintain or improve the standard in defence we achieved in 2008 then throw in Maguire and Baker (damn Dempster's Knee) then add an improving (hopefully) Kozi up forward and then maybe one or two of our fringe players stepping up in the middle and or accross half forward then this black duck believes the Saints will be there on that last day in September.

God I love February.

[older saint]

Given a choice I will take watching 25 games of stoggy football resulting in a premiership if that is what it takes.

No one remembers the style of football West Coast played in 1994, they just remember theywon the flag. The only reason this gets bought up is the media as they want to sell papers/ increase ratings based on what they pay to broadcast .

[bigcarl]

Given a choice I will take watching 25 games of stoggy football resulting in a premiership if that is what it takes.

No one remembers the style of football West Coast played in 1994, they just remember theywon the flag. The only reason this gets bought up is the media as they want to sell papers/ increase ratings based on what they pay to broadcast .

i can forgive it being stodgy if it works, but it hasn't improved our results.

[Con Gorozidis]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 72,00.html

his wife is hot.

[meher baba]

And Lyon hopes that list of names will help smash another perception: that the Saints play stodgy footy.

He is quick to fire off a question: Who averaged more goals - the Saints of 2006 or '08?

"We kicked 10 more goals than in '06. That might surprise some people," Lyon said.

And someone also needs to explain to him that averaging more goals in '08 is not necessarily the same as kicking 10 more goals in '08. Especially considering we played two extra games. Has he really done the maths?

To be fair to Lyon, we did kick 10 more goals over the 22 home and away rounds in 2008 than we did in 2006. And, in that season, we had a much more reliable #1 goal kicker in G-Train.

That said, we had a tougher draw in 2006: more games against top sides, more away games and a large number of 6 day breaks.

All in all, I reckon it's pretty even. We were certainly a lot more attacking in 2007 than we were in 2008, and I am hoping that the trend will extend into 2009 as Lyon continues to grow in confidence as a coach.

[bigcarl]

We were certainly a lot more attacking in 2007 than we were in 2008.

i think you have the years transposed.

[meher baba]

We were certainly a lot more attacking in 2007 than we were in 2008.

Whoops, unfortunate transposition there!!

You knew what I meant........................

[kosifantutti23]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 72,00.html

his wife is hot.

Have you got any stats on that?

[To the top]

There is no doubt that the St Kilda FC need publicity to attract Sponsors and memberships and that the Coach and the leading players carry the name of the club to the masses - through the media.

However, in reading the article in Murdoch's trash sheet the question must be asked.

Who employs the Coach of St Kilda FC and on what terms and conditions?

Because St Kilda FC is the employer of the Coach for the purpose of producing the best result possible from the collection of players it employs and for the purpose of producing the best team result.

I do not know who these journalists think they are, commenting on everyone and everything else but escaping similar scrutiny - except for the political journalist who tried to punch out the lights of the host of a media presentation event - and then blamed it on medication!

Lyon is measured by the success St Kilda FC have whilst he is Coach.

What are these journalists measured against?

And who are they?

Whilst annoyed, the references to "Visy Park" or whatever only serve to highlight that the principal of the Visy Group has defrauded every Australian each and every time they have purchased carton items over many, many years. Hence the largest fine ever imposed in Australia and hence the (now) government changing the laws (appropriately) such that those found guilty as Pratt eventualy pleaded are jailed.

I once knew Pratt in business, but have deliberately not associated with him or anyone involved with him since one other matter over an Easter period, involving an Insurance Company many years ago.

So who has paid for the financial support you provide to Carlton FC Mr Pratt and which has seen Carlton FC survive when otherwise it would not have - and which has resulted in "Visy Park" or whatever it is now called?

I know what it should be named!

Then there is the decision in regards the Collingwood player, and the West Coast player who has had his jaw shattered.

How many parents are going to pull their kids from the game as a result of that incident?

Because it sets the benchmark - and it was not a bump, it was a deliberate charge on a player who was chasing someone with the ball. If you want to shepherd you put yourself in between the ball carrier and the chaser - you do not lower your shoulder and go straight thru him.

The father says "killing the game".

What about killing a player?

[plugger66]

There is no doubt that the St Kilda FC need publicity to attract Sponsors and memberships and that the Coach and the leading players carry the name of the club to the masses - through the media.

However, in reading the article in Murdoch's trash sheet the question must be asked.

Who employs the Coach of St Kilda FC and on what terms and conditions?

Because St Kilda FC is the employer of the Coach for the purpose of producing the best result possible from the collection of players it employs and for the purpose of producing the best team result.

I do not know who these journalists think they are, commenting on everyone and everything else but escaping similar scrutiny - except for the political journalist who tried to punch out the lights of the host of a media presentation event - and then blamed it on medication!

Lyon is measured by the success St Kilda FC have whilst he is Coach.

What are these journalists measured against?

And who are they?

Whilst annoyed, the references to "Visy Park" or whatever only serve to highlight that the principal of the Visy Group has defrauded every Australian each and every time they have purchased carton items over many, many years. Hence the largest fine ever imposed in Australia and hence the (now) government changing the laws (appropriately) such that those found guilty as Pratt eventualy pleaded are jailed.

I once knew Pratt in business, but have deliberately not associated with him or anyone involved with him since one other matter over an Easter period, involving an Insurance Company many years ago.

So who has paid for the financial support you provide to Carlton FC Mr Pratt and which has seen Carlton FC survive when otherwise it would not have - and which has resulted in "Visy Park" or whatever it is now called?

I know what it should be named!

Then there is the decision in regards the Collingwood player, and the West Coast player who has had his jaw shattered.

How many parents are going to pull their kids from the game as a result of that incident?

Because it sets the benchmark - and it was not a bump, it was a deliberate charge on a player who was chasing someone with the ball. If you want to shepherd you put yourself in between the ball carrier and the chaser - you do not lower your shoulder and go straight thru him.

The father says "killing the game".

What about killing a player?

Writing a lot of words and leaving gaps betwwen sentences doesnt mean you make sense.

[bigcarl]

There is no doubt that the St Kilda FC need publicity to attract Sponsors and memberships and that the Coach and the leading players carry the name of the club to the masses - through the media.

However, in reading the article in Murdoch's trash sheet the question must be asked.

Who employs the Coach of St Kilda FC and on what terms and conditions?

Because St Kilda FC is the employer of the Coach for the purpose of producing the best result possible from the collection of players it employs and for the purpose of producing the best team result.

I do not know who these journalists think they are, commenting on everyone and everything else but escaping similar scrutiny - except for the political journalist who tried to punch out the lights of the host of a media presentation event - and then blamed it on medication!

Lyon is measured by the success St Kilda FC have whilst he is Coach.

What are these journalists measured against?

And who are they?

Whilst annoyed, the references to "Visy Park" or whatever only serve to highlight that the principal of the Visy Group has defrauded every Australian each and every time they have purchased carton items over many, many years. Hence the largest fine ever imposed in Australia and hence the (now) government changing the laws (appropriately) such that those found guilty as Pratt eventualy pleaded are jailed.

I once knew Pratt in business, but have deliberately not associated with him or anyone involved with him since one other matter over an Easter period, involving an Insurance Company many years ago.

So who has paid for the financial support you provide to Carlton FC Mr Pratt and which has seen Carlton FC survive when otherwise it would not have - and which has resulted in "Visy Park" or whatever it is now called?

I know what it should be named!

Then there is the decision in regards the Collingwood player, and the West Coast player who has had his jaw shattered.

How many parents are going to pull their kids from the game as a result of that incident?

Because it sets the benchmark - and it was not a bump, it was a deliberate charge on a player who was chasing someone with the ball. If you want to shepherd you put yourself in between the ball carrier and the chaser - you do not lower your shoulder and go straight thru him.

The father says "killing the game".

What about killing a player?

not sure what your point is, but an impressive rant nonetheless

[To the top]

I found the article insulting to not only Lyon and his family, but to St Kilda FC and its supporters.

What we have is ultra lazy journalists, with no knowledge of the game of AFL football, whose "reports" on games are dominated by a headline (taking up to half a page!) and where they go searching for that headline from the uneducated questions they pose to a Coach after a match.

Read their "reports" on games. Listen to the post match questioning.

So when a Coach rightly gives them short shift, virtually telling them that they watched the game (from the bar?) and perhaps they should go away and write on what they saw and not sit asking dumb questions looking for a gaffe and a headline, the media are judge, jury and executioner.

You do not question the media!

You do not get match "reports" now which cover game trends and player performances. They concentrate instead on a particular player or a couple of players from the winning side - and on what a Coach says in his after match press conference IF they consider it newsworthy.

They are all about headlines and the sensational - not about reporting the game.

So types like Pratt re-emerge because the media have moved on from the greatest Corporate crime perpetuated against the Australian public.

And the media push for the Collingwood "bump" penalty to be overturned (at the behest no doubt of the failed Maguire and his residual influence in the media) - but this gives open licence for anyone to be charged at if they are in proximity to the ball - and put out of the game, maybe permanently. So is it going to become a game of last man standing, because that is the outcome. You just pick off players when they are around the ball but not actually contesting the ball and take them out by charging them - then blaming the injured player because he was not prepared and braced for the hit.

Perhaps if our media was so clever, they could have picked up on the asset bubble in our housing prices post 2001 and the asset bubble in equities post 2004 - and the escalation in our Net Foreign Debt to over $600 Billion (a lazy 150% of GDP) and warned that this trend was not sustainable.

But the Finance and Political journalists were out to lunch in their favourite bars around town, with the sporting journalists.

Time the journos were called to account.

Not Ross Lyon, who is judged by his results week by week.

[bigcarl]

I found the article insulting to not only Lyon and his family, but to St Kilda FC and its supporters.

did you? i thought it reflected pretty well on ross on the whole

[plugger66]

I found the article insulting to not only Lyon and his family, but to St Kilda FC and its supporters.

What we have is ultra lazy journalists, with no knowledge of the game of AFL football, whose "reports" on games are dominated by a headline (taking up to half a page!) and where they go searching for that headline from the uneducated questions they pose to a Coach after a match.

Read their "reports" on games. Listen to the post match questioning.

So when a Coach rightly gives them short shift, virtually telling them that they watched the game (from the bar?) and perhaps they should go away and write on what they saw and not sit asking dumb questions looking for a gaffe and a headline, the media are judge, jury and executioner.

You do not question the media!

You do not get match "reports" now which cover game trends and player performances. They concentrate instead on a particular player or a couple of players from the winning side - and on what a Coach says in his after match press conference IF they consider it newsworthy.

They are all about headlines and the sensational - not about reporting the game.

So types like Pratt re-emerge because the media have moved on from the greatest Corporate crime perpetuated against the Australian public.

And the media push for the Collingwood "bump" penalty to be overturned (at the behest no doubt of the failed Maguire and his residual influence in the media) - but this gives open licence for anyone to be charged at if they are in proximity to the ball - and put out of the game, maybe permanently. So is it going to become a game of last man standing, because that is the outcome. You just pick off players when they are around the ball but not actually contesting the ball and take them out by charging them - then blaming the injured player because he was not prepared and braced for the hit.

Perhaps if our media was so clever, they could have picked up on the asset bubble in our housing prices post 2001 and the asset bubble in equities post 2004 - and the escalation in our Net Foreign Debt to over $600 Billion (a lazy 150% of GDP) and warned that this trend was not sustainable.

But the Finance and Political journalists were out to lunch in their favourite bars around town, with the sporting journalists.

Time the journos were called to account.

Not Ross Lyon, who is judged by his results week by week.

Again impressive use of words for no apparent reason and to make it worse you got the bumping rule wrong.