Some here may argue that we have a top 4 list. That may be true, but we are still a fair way off top 2 and challenging for a flag.
NOTE: things will get much harder next yr. There are a number of teams on the rise, and the cats & hawks will likely have a few yrs more up the top of the ladder. So where do we fit? What is our future for the next few yrs? Can we take the next step, or are we in for difficult times?
This is what I think:
Midfield:
There is an obvious weakness in our midfield. We lack pace, skill and ability to win hard balls/contested possession (which was made worse with Ball out for the last 6 weeks), and kick goals through our mids. Look at the mids that will be available:
Lenny - quality player, but needs support. Is he at his peak, can be get better?
Ball - Quality ball winner, but lacks pace, especially after his injuries. Will he finally get back to his best next yr?
Dal - talent to be an elite, but had an average yr. He has been ill for a 5 to 6 week period. Needs to lift next yr, and he can.
Monty - good talent, but against the very best competition, hasn't quite put it together. Needs to lift his work rate.
Gram - Been tried there, with varying success. Can he develop his role here further?
Goddard - Talent, great disposal, but a little on the slow side. Will he be used more as a goodes type role, where he is used as an impact mid, or can he make a permanent contribution? Will improve further next yr, after another yr on from his knee injury...Also great utility player.
X. Clarke - Disappointing yr. injuries again. Seems to lack the hardness for the top level. Needs a big pre-season.
Eddy – Right attitude and focus for a young player. Will make it as a good B grade player. Not sure if he will get beyond that.
Baker - Will he recover to his best again? Our best tagger, but will he have the pace?
C. Jones – Great effort, tries hard, but doesn’t have the talent to really hurt the top teams.
Mini - Done well at time in a tagging role, but found wanting at the top level. Has some talent, but do we give him another yr to try to take it up a level?
Armitage - Has talent, but slow, and needs to work harder. Will get better, but not sure he will make it to A grade level.
Geary - Ok at times, got talent, but not sure as yet if he can make it to A grade level. Needs a big-preseason.
Stevens - I think he will be very good, but probably 2 to 3 years away
Miles: Shows some promise here, but is 2 to 3 years away…
Birss – Hard player, but slow. Trade or delist, or backup, but was not used this yr.
NEED: I think we need another 2 quality mids - pacey, hard ball winners that can kick goals. This will enable us to compete with the elite level mids....but these type of players don't grow on trees...(if we could get cousins & kerr cheaply, that would be great, but I doubt it...) So drafting & trading will need to be looked at, BUT not at the expense of Dal.
Defence:
Maxy – Great player, but coming to the end of his career. One or two more yrs at elite level – if lucky.
S. Fisher – Elite
Gilbert – Frustrating. Some talent, but one sided & poor disposal at times. Needs another big preseason & will get better. How good he will be remains uncertain.
Gram – Quality player
Goddard – Moving into elite
Blake – Great service from limited talent. But he will not get better, and struggles against the best
R. Clarke – Always thought he will make it. With a good pre-season will be a quality player
Gwilt – Don’t think he will make it. Do we persevere?
Goose – Will he get back to his best? I think it’s doubtful. He was struggling with the pace of the game, even before he broke his leg. Hope I’m wrong.
Dempster – Good value player. Not a great talent, but does his job. Will be missed for the whole yr, though.
Attard – Was good before the knee. Will probably replace dempster’s role next yr.
NEED: Who will replace Maxy? That is our single biggest issue in defence. We need to find a quality tall defender, probably through the draft to replace him, but it ill be very hard to find. Also, could do with another tall pacy defender.
Forwards:
- Riewoldt - Elite
- Kosi – Frustrating, said many time before by others. I think its confidence with him (and carrying a bit of an injury?). A big preseason will help. Still has big up side, and worth keeping.
- Milne – Also frustrating. Great with weaker defences, but too often found wanting in big games. He is 29. Will he get better, and find extra for big games?
- Schneider – First season. Needs to work hard during pre-season, and lift work rate in games. I think he has more upside, and will get better.
- Allen – good mark. A little slow. This is a COMMON PROBLEM with our recruiting. Why do we always get SLOW players???? That said, I think he could make it. Next yr he could step up, but not certain.
C. Gardiner – Just ok. Not really an AFL standard player.
NEED: Simple - If kosi fires, that will make a HUGE difference to our forward line potency. But can he get back there? We also lack a quality leading & marking HFF. We have not found a replacement for Hamill, and we have struggled since then. Allen, is not a HFF, he is a KP forward, and Gardiner doesn’t have the talent. Would love a Steve Johnson. ALSO, our mids need to kick more goals. I think R. Clarke could be a solution for the HFF. I think he has the talent, and on the forward line can play more instinctively….
Rucks:
- King: We have got good value from him. Will be needed next yr.
- Kosi: See above, frustrating, plenty of upside potential, but can he fulfil?
- McEvoy – Needs another yr or 2 before he makes any significant impact.
- M. Gardiner – Probably done his time? Worth keeping if he is up to it.
- Rix – Back up, if kept
NEED: Another young developing ruck would be handy. Don’t know if Van Reehan (?) is up to it…
Others for delisting/trading:
- Ferguson
- Fiora
- Fisher
So overall, the mids is the key weakness areas. If we only improved here, that would make a big difference. We need to concentrate on recruiting players with PACE as well as skill & hardness…A mobile quality HFF would be great too.
List Assessment: Where are we at/what do we need?
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kaos theory
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kaos theory
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mad saint guy
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Key defensive stocks
Hudghton - Great stopper but probably only one year left
S.Fisher - Elite rebounder who can negate an opponent if needed
Gilbert - Improving key defender who can take the third tall now, hopefully becomes the number one defender in two years
Blake - Solid trier. Won't beat class but he can plug a gap
Maguire - Was a very effective player in '04 and '05 but has been struck down with injuries ever since. Unseen whether he will be able to return with any success
Overall: 8/10 - We've got two elite defenders, a player of the future in Gilbert and a solid backup option in Blake
Medium/small defenders
R.Clarke - Good rebounder, reads the play well and can time a spoil nicely. Hopefully a permanent fixture for the next 8 years
Gram - Good offensively but provides no defensive pressure. Fails to make simple contests and is a liability if on a damaging opponent
Attard - Reasonable stopper who has been thrown a lifeline with the Dempster injury. Expect him to play most of 2009
Miles - Has great athletic ability, decent skills and a strong attack on the ball. Definitely one to watch, but needs to stay fit
Ferguson - Will be delisted
6.5/10 - We just lack a player who can shut down the dangerous smalls AND give us a bit offensively
Inside midfielders
Hayes - Good clearance player who runs hard and lays plenty of tackles. He's not the same player he was pre-reco in 2006, but still a good midfielder.
Ball - Excellent in clearances but has very limited pace and skills. Needs runners to feed off him.
Dal Santo - Immensely talented and horribly lazy. Has the most natural ability of anyone on the list but does not work hard enough to break a tag. He's unfit and uncommitted. Possible trade bait.
Goddard - Looks well on his way to becoming our best midfielder. Has awsome skills and is one of the few physically imposing players at the club.
Armitage - Has great attack on the ball and pretty good skills, but struggles to find the footy. Will be given time but has to improve
Birss - Good bench player with neat skills and footy smarts.
Eddy - Trier with little skill. He has elite endurance but no actual weapons at AFL level. Poor disposal, ordinary pace, doesn't read the play particularly well and struggles overhead. I don't see where the improvement will come from with Eddy.
7/10 - We've got some good clearance players but no one with any pace.
Outside midfielders
Montagna - Handy runner with solid skills and good pace. Sometimes struggles to have an impact on the game but is our best outside mid.
X.Clarke - Handy when fit but can't put a month of good footy together. He's out of contract and if any other club shows interest it wouldn't surprise me to see him gone.
Jones - Very limited player who tries his guts out. Not premiership material
Fiora - Has performed ok in the senior side this year but isn't best 22 material
Gram - Can play midfield but is easily shut down
Geary - Shows plenty at VFL level but hasn't had an opportunity to attack at AFL level.
4/10 - We have no consistently damaging players and have lost our best outside midfielder in Harvey. We need to heavily target any skilled midfielders with pace and endurance.
Taggers
Baker - Was an awsome player a few years ago but he was well and truly struggling even before his injury and suspension problems. He'll be given a chance to come back but is no certainty to hold his spot
McQualter - Average tagger who gives nothing offensively
Dempster - Had developed into a decent tagger before his injury
5.5/10 - We've got some players who can nullify an opponent, but no one near the level of Sewell or Ling.
Rucks
King - Solid ruckman who will at least hold his own in the hitouts but gives little around the ground. He's fine to fill a gap for a couple of years but isn't up there with the elite
M.Gardiner - Player with plenty of talent, but doesn't seem to be able to stay fit. He's a smart player who win hitouts and have a real impact drifting into defence, but it's a risk playing him every week when he could break down any minute.
Koschitzke - Can pinch hit in the ruck and do a reasonable job. His tapwork has improved and he gives a fair bit around the ground.
Blake - Similar to Kosi
McEvoy - He's a smart player with good skills but doesn't look like a ruckman. He struggles to win hitouts at VFL level and isn't particularly tall. At best he could turn out to be an Ottens type, but he's a long way from being AFL ready.
Rix - Nowhere near AFL standard
Van Rheenen - Likely to get the chop. He was a long shot that hasn't paid off
6/10 - We've got a few short-term options and another player who looks like he should be handy, but any elite ruck team needs a Cox/Sandilands/McIntosh
Tall forwards
Riewoldt - Superstar
Koschitzke - Ok pinch-hitter who can take a nice contested grab. Not a permanent FF
Allen - Not AFL standard yet and has some work to do if he wants a senior spot
Haretuku - VFL reserves player who isn't showing a whole lit
6/10 - Riewoldt is our only quality tall forward and we either need an O'Keefe type to allow Roo to play FF, or we need a Roughead type who is good for 60-70 goals as a true FF
Medium/small forwards
Milne - Very good small forward who has been forced to play as a third tall.
Schneider - Reasonable crumber. Needs to get a bit of consistency happening but has ability.
Gwilt - Provides a target and a bit of defensive pressure, but doesn't take enough marks
C.Gardiner - Not AFL material
5/10 - We desperately need a quality medium forward and a pacey small like a Davey would be handy
Steven, Connors ungraded
Hudghton - Great stopper but probably only one year left
S.Fisher - Elite rebounder who can negate an opponent if needed
Gilbert - Improving key defender who can take the third tall now, hopefully becomes the number one defender in two years
Blake - Solid trier. Won't beat class but he can plug a gap
Maguire - Was a very effective player in '04 and '05 but has been struck down with injuries ever since. Unseen whether he will be able to return with any success
Overall: 8/10 - We've got two elite defenders, a player of the future in Gilbert and a solid backup option in Blake
Medium/small defenders
R.Clarke - Good rebounder, reads the play well and can time a spoil nicely. Hopefully a permanent fixture for the next 8 years
Gram - Good offensively but provides no defensive pressure. Fails to make simple contests and is a liability if on a damaging opponent
Attard - Reasonable stopper who has been thrown a lifeline with the Dempster injury. Expect him to play most of 2009
Miles - Has great athletic ability, decent skills and a strong attack on the ball. Definitely one to watch, but needs to stay fit
Ferguson - Will be delisted
6.5/10 - We just lack a player who can shut down the dangerous smalls AND give us a bit offensively
Inside midfielders
Hayes - Good clearance player who runs hard and lays plenty of tackles. He's not the same player he was pre-reco in 2006, but still a good midfielder.
Ball - Excellent in clearances but has very limited pace and skills. Needs runners to feed off him.
Dal Santo - Immensely talented and horribly lazy. Has the most natural ability of anyone on the list but does not work hard enough to break a tag. He's unfit and uncommitted. Possible trade bait.
Goddard - Looks well on his way to becoming our best midfielder. Has awsome skills and is one of the few physically imposing players at the club.
Armitage - Has great attack on the ball and pretty good skills, but struggles to find the footy. Will be given time but has to improve
Birss - Good bench player with neat skills and footy smarts.
Eddy - Trier with little skill. He has elite endurance but no actual weapons at AFL level. Poor disposal, ordinary pace, doesn't read the play particularly well and struggles overhead. I don't see where the improvement will come from with Eddy.
7/10 - We've got some good clearance players but no one with any pace.
Outside midfielders
Montagna - Handy runner with solid skills and good pace. Sometimes struggles to have an impact on the game but is our best outside mid.
X.Clarke - Handy when fit but can't put a month of good footy together. He's out of contract and if any other club shows interest it wouldn't surprise me to see him gone.
Jones - Very limited player who tries his guts out. Not premiership material
Fiora - Has performed ok in the senior side this year but isn't best 22 material
Gram - Can play midfield but is easily shut down
Geary - Shows plenty at VFL level but hasn't had an opportunity to attack at AFL level.
4/10 - We have no consistently damaging players and have lost our best outside midfielder in Harvey. We need to heavily target any skilled midfielders with pace and endurance.
Taggers
Baker - Was an awsome player a few years ago but he was well and truly struggling even before his injury and suspension problems. He'll be given a chance to come back but is no certainty to hold his spot
McQualter - Average tagger who gives nothing offensively
Dempster - Had developed into a decent tagger before his injury
5.5/10 - We've got some players who can nullify an opponent, but no one near the level of Sewell or Ling.
Rucks
King - Solid ruckman who will at least hold his own in the hitouts but gives little around the ground. He's fine to fill a gap for a couple of years but isn't up there with the elite
M.Gardiner - Player with plenty of talent, but doesn't seem to be able to stay fit. He's a smart player who win hitouts and have a real impact drifting into defence, but it's a risk playing him every week when he could break down any minute.
Koschitzke - Can pinch hit in the ruck and do a reasonable job. His tapwork has improved and he gives a fair bit around the ground.
Blake - Similar to Kosi
McEvoy - He's a smart player with good skills but doesn't look like a ruckman. He struggles to win hitouts at VFL level and isn't particularly tall. At best he could turn out to be an Ottens type, but he's a long way from being AFL ready.
Rix - Nowhere near AFL standard
Van Rheenen - Likely to get the chop. He was a long shot that hasn't paid off
6/10 - We've got a few short-term options and another player who looks like he should be handy, but any elite ruck team needs a Cox/Sandilands/McIntosh
Tall forwards
Riewoldt - Superstar
Koschitzke - Ok pinch-hitter who can take a nice contested grab. Not a permanent FF
Allen - Not AFL standard yet and has some work to do if he wants a senior spot
Haretuku - VFL reserves player who isn't showing a whole lit
6/10 - Riewoldt is our only quality tall forward and we either need an O'Keefe type to allow Roo to play FF, or we need a Roughead type who is good for 60-70 goals as a true FF
Medium/small forwards
Milne - Very good small forward who has been forced to play as a third tall.
Schneider - Reasonable crumber. Needs to get a bit of consistency happening but has ability.
Gwilt - Provides a target and a bit of defensive pressure, but doesn't take enough marks
C.Gardiner - Not AFL material
5/10 - We desperately need a quality medium forward and a pacey small like a Davey would be handy
Steven, Connors ungraded
I think we probably need inside midfielders more than outside midfielders. While a quick, hard-nosed inside mdifleder wouldn't go astray I think we need more midifeld depth and inside midfielders to improve our clearances as teams umtialtely look quicker if they are winning the stoppages. Furthermore, this will no doubt enhance our outside players while it probably doesn't work the other way. If we can release Dal and Monty from the heavy tags they will become much better players and much more damging with increased freedom.
While we've got a lot of young developing inside midfielder's there is a massive gulp between them and Ball and Hayes meaning Hayes and Ball carry much of the load. Maybe Gram could slot in there if someone like Howard, who is 3rd year next year, could fill his role. Birss could also be a viable option as a depth player through there. If this were to work, Montagna and Dal could play a more outside role, which they're better suited to, with less attention and would be very dangerous. This would also make us look much quicker if we got the ball in their ahnd more often in space.
While we've got a lot of young developing inside midfielder's there is a massive gulp between them and Ball and Hayes meaning Hayes and Ball carry much of the load. Maybe Gram could slot in there if someone like Howard, who is 3rd year next year, could fill his role. Birss could also be a viable option as a depth player through there. If this were to work, Montagna and Dal could play a more outside role, which they're better suited to, with less attention and would be very dangerous. This would also make us look much quicker if we got the ball in their ahnd more often in space.
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Otiman
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Our needs are simple.
You look at who you would be replacing in the 22.
Tall, leading, marking target: Koschitzke (To permanent ruck/follower)
Tall, leading, marking target: Eddy/Gardiner/Ferguson
Quality tap ruckman: King and Gardiner
One key defender: Max
One fast tagger: Bakes
One quality small defender: Dempster
One or two CHT player (Chase, tackle, harass) with good footskills and decision making: Jones
This is assuming Ball improves, Hayes doesn't decline, and Armitage comes on as expected.
You look at who you would be replacing in the 22.
Tall, leading, marking target: Koschitzke (To permanent ruck/follower)
Tall, leading, marking target: Eddy/Gardiner/Ferguson
Quality tap ruckman: King and Gardiner
One key defender: Max
One fast tagger: Bakes
One quality small defender: Dempster
One or two CHT player (Chase, tackle, harass) with good footskills and decision making: Jones
This is assuming Ball improves, Hayes doesn't decline, and Armitage comes on as expected.
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kaos theory
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MSG - Pretty much agree with your assessment.
BUT would not trade dal for midfield improvement. Dal has been in our best for the last 3 to 4 years, and he has had one bad season (manly due to illness). So to trade him on one poor season would be stupid. We would be in effect not make any significant improvement in the mids.
With Dal, you know what you have (a huge talent) and you know what needs to be improved (his work rate).
BUT would not trade dal for midfield improvement. Dal has been in our best for the last 3 to 4 years, and he has had one bad season (manly due to illness). So to trade him on one poor season would be stupid. We would be in effect not make any significant improvement in the mids.
With Dal, you know what you have (a huge talent) and you know what needs to be improved (his work rate).
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spert
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To be really serious about taking the next step, we need to rejig the midfield on and onballers, and get another big, mobile forward. Our mids dont carry the ball through the lines, or do any damage on the scoreboard. As far as I'm concerned, Lenny has gone past his peak and although a great player for the club, he is just a bit too slow now. NDS has had enough chances and failed in Prelims, and has fallen behind other quality mids in the competition..and still gets tagged out of a game far too easily. Montagna is a lightweight and has stood still for a couple of years, and although work has been put into his defensive game, it just isn't good enough. We desperately need gut-running, strong onballers and mids with speed and penetrating kicking. It's a hard thing to fix, but RL should swing the axe and prepare for a rebuild.
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makemytime
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Doesn't have to be mobile, as long as we can get a permanent full-fwd to stay near the goal square while Roo and kosi do their thing at centre half-forwardspert wrote:To be really serious about taking the next step, we need to rejig the midfield on and onballers, and get another big, mobile forward. Our mids dont carry the ball through the lines, or do any damage on the scoreboard.
We have two of the best clearance players in the league with Ball and Hayes.
What we need is some fast, skillful players who take the pressure off NDS
and Montagna. I think Armitage will be an inside player although he needs
to work harder than he did on saturday night. We need either Geary, Steven
or one of the other youngsters to step up next year to create the depth we
really need.
What we need is some fast, skillful players who take the pressure off NDS
and Montagna. I think Armitage will be an inside player although he needs
to work harder than he did on saturday night. We need either Geary, Steven
or one of the other youngsters to step up next year to create the depth we
really need.
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bergsone
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IMO we need 2 quality mids,cousins?
Would try Allen as ff,look to recruiting a tallish mobile goalkicking forward S Johnson geelong type
KPB to compliment Max ,Blake ,Goose etc
By continuing to play all of Eddy ,Jones ,Mini etc in tagging type roles ,we struggle to win enough of the footy
Where you get them from draft,trade?
Would try Allen as ff,look to recruiting a tallish mobile goalkicking forward S Johnson geelong type
KPB to compliment Max ,Blake ,Goose etc
By continuing to play all of Eddy ,Jones ,Mini etc in tagging type roles ,we struggle to win enough of the footy
Where you get them from draft,trade?