Interesting article by Voss' brother

[my les foote]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/s ... ntentSwap1

St Kilda has the right cattle this year, but they do not work together as a team. They are a group of individuals who are together by name and jumper, but they do not work together for a common purpose.

[Teflon]

what a fantastic read - it sums up how I felt after the Geelong performance.

Look at the difference - Geelong dont CARE who kicks the goals as long a they kick them - they share the load. We rely on 1 supposed superstar and a couple of potential ones...

Fwd pressure?...Cats ALL apply it
Backs? all Cats will zone off to help a team mate

who really even flew the flag for us when we had players being smashed left right and centre???? The point is nothing says TEAM with us its all individual.

A mad Geelong mate at the game reackons he noticed the difference in the game when Geelong went into a zone pattern defence and he actually heard Kelly screaming "hold the pattern" (hes close to the fence trust me..). its interesting cause he insisted that in the 5-6 mins when Geelong played this way they didnt try and attack us (we were on top 1 on 1) they simply held us, got control of the footy/game as a UNIFIED TEAM and powered away.

Its all discipline in the end - great teams as the article suggests play for each other and have it in spades.....many talented sides cant spell it.

IMO Lyons game plan is founded on this - we arent breaking down cause we arent fit to carry it through - we simply arent mentally disciplined enough individually and then collectively to pull it off for 4 qtrs. We get it right for 1 and look good...then the concentration goes.... good TEAMS like Geelong dont do this, they asll have their parts, know them and regardless of the glamour they execute.

[Red]

Never a truer word has being said. Not once last week did I see someone

block for NDS. I can't wait till Baker is back.

[cowboy18]

Wow. Terrific read - very sobering.

No cliches from Voss there... that would really tear at the core of the playing group.

[spert]

Pretty accurate -we were commenting at the game last week that there was a noticable lack of leadership and the forwards especially looked like they didn't know each other.

[rodgerfox]

I've read some cutting articles before, but that is the most savage attack on a team that I've read.

[fingers]

simply written - and unfortunately true.

[Beej]

Three time premiership captain and Brownlow medallist thinks we have the right cattle - can't really argue with that. No doubt in my mind that the footballers we have are good enough, they are. Do not subscribe to the thought that we're slow, it's just an excuse.

Hate to harp on it but he is spot on about us being a group of individuals - that is our problem. As i've mentioned before, this is the furthest away from being a unit we've been in a long time.

We play without motivation, without inspration. We don't play for eachother. We put together 10 minute patches of good football here and there.

Whose job is it to take a group of players and turn them into a team?
The first and most important job for a coach who has taken over a side is to unite the team - Lyon's been there over a year and he still doesn't have a team.

I've realised that, regardless of the game plan, if the players aren't all pulling in the same direction, believing in the game plan, they're going to fail.

Say what you want about GT but under him we were a team that played for eachother and not themselves.

[saintsrus]

I really cant see how he knows this when he has nothing to do with the club

Did his brother tell him? I doubt it

I dont respect this Jerk that preferred a Sydney win in the pf we played them "for the good of the competition" over his brothers glory.


Only positive from this story is we hope the players read it

[Beej]

I remember a goal that the Dogs kicked against us, may have been Griffin's effort where he ran around Blake, maybe it was another...

Anyway, a Bulldogs player was streaming inside 50 unattended and there were a host of St Kilda players who could've closed him down but they all had their own man.

The worrying thing was that not a single one of those St Kilda players chose to leave their man and put pressure on the Bulldog with the footy to force him to make a decision. All too worried about 'their' man kicking the goal.

That spoke volumes for me.

[rodgerfox]

The worrying thing was that not a single one of those St Kilda players chose to leave their man and put pressure on the Bulldog with the footy to force him to make a decision. All too worried about 'their' man kicking the goal.

That spoke volumes for me.

I actually think that is a 'team rule'.

Being 'accountable' for your man.

[Beej]

The worrying thing was that not a single one of those St Kilda players chose to leave their man and put pressure on the Bulldog with the footy to force him to make a decision. All too worried about 'their' man kicking the goal.

That spoke volumes for me.

I actually think that is a 'team rule'.

Being 'accountable' for your man.

If teams took accountability to that extent, the opposition full back would get around his man and then you'd have 17 players swarming to the sidelines dragging another 17 with them, to allow the full-back a clear passage through to goal.

There comes a time when you HAVE to leave your man. What we did was selfish football imo.

[evertonfc]

I think every single St Kilda player should read that article.

I think every single St Kilda supporter should read that article.

And then both should read the article next to it - http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/b ... 80844.html

Because even if we win tonight and Essendon lose, I guarantee the Bombers will play with dash, dare and guile, and give their fans something to get excited about.

[devil saint]

Great article. Even though it delivered some tough calls it is the most hopeful I have felt about the saints for a while.

[evertonfc]

Great article. Even though it delivered some tough calls it is the most hopeful I have felt about the saints for a while.

It's ironic, but you're right - when somebody so critically points out a flaw that can be solved, there is cause for optimism

[Dan Warna]

yep signs of don't leave your man abounded last year.

when max returned, it seemed for a while he took charge of our defence and played a more natural game, i remember him running towards and making a couragious spoil saving the defence by clearing the ball by leaving his man to make the intercept.

Brett Voss was much the same as an instinctive defender.

I suspect our game style killed voss, and max seems to be well brought into teh game plan.

[rodgerfox]

The worrying thing was that not a single one of those St Kilda players chose to leave their man and put pressure on the Bulldog with the footy to force him to make a decision. All too worried about 'their' man kicking the goal.

That spoke volumes for me.

I actually think that is a 'team rule'.

Being 'accountable' for your man.

If teams took accountability to that extent, the opposition full back would get around his man and then you'd have 17 players swarming to the sidelines dragging another 17 with them, to allow the full-back a clear passage through to goal.

There comes a time when you HAVE to leave your man. What we did was selfish football imo.

I absolutely agree.

Totally concur.

Either we are being taught the game plan therefore the direction is that there is to be absolutely no deviation from it (ie. don't think for yourself - follow the game plan at all costs)

or.... this is the game plan and we are happy to let players walk right past us as long as it's not my man that has the ball

or.... this isn't the game plan at all and the players are just completely selfish, stupid and pathetic.


I started a thread on this not long ago. Where a coach trying to implement a game plan gets his players to carry it out 100% of the time, with absolutely no exceptions. Once the team has it down pat, they then start to allow some deviation from it.
What this can mean, is that instances like the one you mentioned can happen. And from the grandstands it appears to be a massive lapse from both the coaches and the players. Sometimes this approach means the loss of a game now and then.

Whereas in reality, in that situation, each player may have been doing precisely what they were asked to do.

[Richter]

Well, all I read was waffle........

They do not support one another and do not share mutual accountability or responsibility for team results.

How does he know? He isn't in the rooms and on the training pitch.

It's not foot speed and it's not skill level, as has been widely reported.

We are one-paced and only have two polished long passers in BJ and Dal. That is unarguable.

It's merely intent. Great teams are willing to look out for one another.....Too many St Kilda players want to be the star. Not enough want to be the player who contributes the most to the team cause and has the most influence on the team result.

Like Luke Ball, Robert Harvey, Lenny Hayes, Nick Riewoldt, Sam Fisher.........? These the so-called selfish stars he's talking about? i don't buy it. Why is it that within the club Jason Blake is regarded in such esteem? Because he is a team man and does the team things. Ditto all the players mentioned enough.

He sticks up for his mate Fraser, good on him for that, but the very selfish star that most embodies what he might be talking about is Fraser himself - I think he tries for the team, but is just incapable of giving any forward pressure. Milne for example has managed to alter his game over the last couple of years to exert more defensive pressure and at times be a midfielder type.

Empty words. Give some positive critiscism - how to structure up the forward line not just ........

For me, it isn't that Gehrig, Nick Riewoldt and Justin Koschitzke can't be in the same forward line. It's just their apparent reluctance to work together........

So tell us how you'd make the three Talls work? No-one else has come up with an answer.

[Saints43]

There was another commentator on the radio after we lost to the Bulldogs who almost said this word for word:

It's not foot speed and it's not skill level, as has been widely reported. It's merely intent. Great teams... have players who swallow their own ego and perform a role for the team.

[saintsRrising]

He has some good points no doubt ..but I think a lot of the article was motivated by "protecting" his very good mate and drinking buddy the GTrain.



GTrain may have tried to play decoy.....but you cannot be good decoy if your opponent instead runs up the field slaughtering us.

[saintsRrising]

There was another commentator on the radio after we lost to the Bulldogs who almost said this word for word:

It's not foot speed and it's not skill level, as has been widely reported. It's merely intent. Great teams... have players who swallow their own ego and perform a role for the team.

Certainly in the Dogs game the "intent" of two thirds of the team went missing after quarter time = lack of pressure and application.


Cats game "intent" was much better for most of the game...but the Cats really slaughterd any weakness or skill error.

[Saints43]

There was another commentator on the radio after we lost to the Bulldogs who almost said this word for word:

It's not foot speed and it's not skill level, as has been widely reported. It's merely intent. Great teams... have players who swallow their own ego and perform a role for the team.

Certainly in the Dogs game the "intent" of tow thirds of the team went missing after quarter time = lack of pressure and application.


Cats game "intent" was much better for most of the game...but the Cats really slaughterd any weakness or skill error.

Agree but would add that some skill errors can be avoided by the player executing the skill having an option who really wants the ball, by being sheparded etc.

Skill levels raise when players are confident that they will not be smashed as they dispose of the ball. By believing that their own work will not go unrewarded by the receiver making a real contest.

[saintsRrising]

True.

One aspect of the game links to another.

This is why the Cats actually look so good at present. They oooze confidence and it flows through to all that they do.

[Zed]

harsh, but true.

[busso mick]

It's only his perspective, but from where I sit it rings true. As a matter of interest who are our worker bees ? Blake would have to be one, can't think of too many others. Maybe Max. Who else would fit the bill?