training today

[dan the saints fan]

hey all went down to moorabbin this morning there was a light skills and training session and some game plan stuff .
However none of this featured g or kosi . The other noticeable absentess where king gardner and no sign of goose . Bj doing lots running only thing he didn t do was full game plan stuff same with luke ball . However old man river harvs looks fit as and was doing handball skills with anthony rock an others unknown to me and actually showed anthony rock a better way of doing set handball drill an skills lol . Sorry not to in depth but game plan looks very flowing and rooeys kicking for goal seems a lot better also .

[Eastern]

Thanks Dan !!

Much appreciated !!

[Oh When the Saints]

Cheers mate

[Ghost Like]

Appreciate that Dan.

Is it just me or are others a little worried that our bigger bodies; Kosi, Gardiner and Goose are not in full training, whether that be all the running, contesting work or match drills?

Do you think it's a tailored program or are these players a lot further off than the club would have us believe?

I was half expecting Goose to not be up and running by season start and was thinking that Kosi may have to take over CHB but now I have my concerns about him (nothing concrete just reading btw the lines in the training reports).

Someone please tell me I'm off the mark...

[st paddy]

Appreciate that Dan.

Is it just me or are others a little worried that our bigger bodies; Kosi, Gardiner and Goose are not in full training, whether that be all the running, contesting work or match drills?

Do you think it's a tailored program or are these players a lot further off than the club would have us believe?

I was half expecting Goose to not be up and running by season start and was thinking that Kosi may have to take over CHB but now I have my concerns about him (nothing concrete just reading btw the lines in the training reports).

Someone please tell me I'm off the mark...

Ur off the mark!

[The Peanut]

Re: Ghost Like post
I am pretty sure it's all part of the very measured program that each player is on - fitness staff, risk management and specific skills training which I guess is sometimes done in the Gym and possibly at other locations. Rest assured the training is much more organised than we have any seen before and if Rossy said the big guns are OK - that's good enough for me.

[Ghost Like]

Thanks St Paddy, I'll head down to the TAB now.

[St Fidelius]

Thanks for you input dan

and I don't care what anyone thinks, but M Gardiner is a worry IMO...

he has not played a decent game in about 3 to 4 years and to me it just is a repeat of what happened to another "All Australian' ruckman ...

Matthew Allen.........


To me it is a mirror image of a great player for 2 or 3 years but injury has stopped him in his tracks...

Again, I hope I am wrong with him, but to me zero last year and not training with the team is a worry...

[savatage]

He is training with the team though SF, also the body shape of Matthew Allan & Michael Gardiner is completely different.

MG is lean & in good shape, Allan was unfit & in poor condition. I think MG's general conditioning is very good.

[esaint66]

Thanks for you input dan

and I don't care what anyone thinks, but M Gardiner is a worry IMO...

he has not played a decent game in about 3 to 4 years and to me it just is a repeat of what happened to another "All Australian' ruckman ...

Matthew Allen.........


To me it is a mirror image of a great player for 2 or 3 years but injury has stopped him in his tracks...

Again, I hope I am wrong with him, but to me zero last year and not training with the team is a worry...

i heard somewhere that gardiner hasnt played a senior afl game since round 16 2006.

[St Fidelius]

He is training with the team though SF, also the body shape of Matthew Allan & Michael Gardiner is completely different.

MG is lean & in good shape, Allan was unfit & in poor condition. I think MG's general conditioning is very good.

Yeah mate you might be right, but the fact remains that he has not played a decent game in many years, and I feel that some on here expect that he will bounce back to something that resembles an "All Australian Ruck"...

This would have to be a 100/1 shot or maybe 500/1...

For me it is not going to happen, and I hope he plays some serviceable games but please, don't expect the best, IMO the best has past him some time ago

[linz]

Who cares ?. What'd he cost us & what is the potential upside?
He is a punt, but a low cost one.

[Oh When the Saints]

My level of optimism is the same as St Fid's on this one ...


Gardiner not training with the group is fine ... he would have had a specialised session somewhere else. That's how it works now days - none of the old "rock up at 3 boys and we'll do some laps and ball work".


But to be objective, with Gardiner's injury history and the time he has spent out of the game, it is unrealistic to expect for more than a handful of below-average games from him next year.

In saying that, I hope he proves me wrong.

[St Fidelius]

My level of optimism is the same as St Fid's on this one ...


Gardiner not training with the group is fine ... he would have had a specialised session somewhere else. That's how it works now days - none of the old "rock up at 3 boys and we'll do some laps and ball work".


But to be objective, with Gardiner's injury history and the time he has spent out of the game, it is unrealistic to expect for more than a handful of below-average games from him next year.

In saying that, I hope he proves me wrong.

Thanks for that support...

Yeah, we signed him up on a one year deal and that proved fruitless...

We have signed him up again, Yes it is a "punt" and know it is a two year one...

His best is behind him IMO and I hope he can provide some decent games in 08...

If it is 8 games, that is a contract of 4 games a season....

Again, some on here think they expect more and I hope they are right

[Batnoe]

I dont care if Gards never looks as if he should have been an All Australian

Even if he only plays half decent games that is half more than any of our other ruckmen

Knobel, Ackland

He has upside, he has been good, and if can get his body right a half decent game is more than we have had in years

[savatage]

Brendon Lade came back to be a pretty good ruckman (premiership & All Australian ruckman) after successive long term injuries.

[esaint66]

Brendon Lade came back to be a pretty good ruckman (premiership & All Australian ruckman) after successive long term injuries.

yeh absoloutly true about lade. i wrote a letter to inside football about the need for the saints to get a good ruckman and i suggested gardiner but jim main disaggreed with me but i still think gardiner is the answer and we shoudlnt be bad mouthing him we havent seen his ability and nobody can help injurys in professional sport there just one of those things that happens. i for one cant wait to see him play for us i have always been one of his greatest admirers for his work on the field but not really off it as late.

[LTN16]

Thanks dan the saints fan

Much Appreciated.

[St Fidelius]

Brendon Lade came back to be a pretty good ruckman (premiership & All Australian ruckman) after successive long term injuries.

Yep..

That is NOT a true comparison IMO...

Lade missed just missed one season and was still getting better...

Gardiner has never played a full season in his entire career and has played 18 matches in 4 years...

To compare Gardiner to Lade is way off the mark IMO...

Gardiner best match was was in round 1 in 2004 and in that year he only played 3 matches...

So if you and anyone else thinks that he is going to be the same and bounce back to his 2004 form (round 1) or 2003 form have to have blinkers on...

He will never be in that form again FFS... Wake up!

you are talking of a player that was his best 5 years ago and has done JACK since...

again...

I wish him well, but please don't expect much IMO

[savatage]

Brendon Lade came back to be a pretty good ruckman (premiership & All Australian ruckman) after successive long term injuries.

Yep..

That is NOT a true comparison IMO...

Lade missed just missed one season and was still getting better...

Gardiner has never played a full season in his intire career and has played 18 matches in 4 years...

To compare Gardiner to Lade is way off the mark IMO...

Gardiner best match was was in round 1 in 2004 and in that year he only played 3 matches...

So if you and anyone else thinks that he is going to be the same and bounce back to his 2004 form (round 1) or 2003 form have to have blinkers on...

He will never be in that form again FFS... Wake up!

you are talking of a player that was his best 5 years ago and has done JACK since...

again...

I wish him well, but please don't expect much IMO

Please don't tell me to "WAKE UP, FFS" & all that other carrying on.
I am presenting an alternate view-point to yours, fine if you don't agree with it - but the FACT remains that Brendon Lade was at the crossroads a couple of years back & was the shadow of his former self for years after breaking his leg. He is now better than he was in 1997,1998 - his early great years.

MG is in good shape - again, you can't disagree with that - just look at his physique in recent photos. I'd rather take foot issues than a broken leg. Whether any of this translates to consistent, good form - in 2008 is debatable, but let's at least wait until he plays some games for us early in the year before writing him off.

[Snakeman66]

Brendon Lade came back to be a pretty good ruckman (premiership & All Australian ruckman) after successive long term injuries.

Yep..

That is NOT a true comparison IMO...

Lade missed just missed one season and was still getting better...

Lade broke is leg in round 2 2000(v Freo) and did not play again that year.

He then broke is leg in a preseason game(not sure if it was the same leg) in 2001 and did not play again until 2002.

Was effectively 2 years of football.

Shaun Rehn was another who had sucessive long term injuries.

1995 rounds 1-3
1996 rounds 1-3

Also misssed all of 1999 after slipping on the centre disc in a preseason game.

[savatage]

Brendon Lade came back to be a pretty good ruckman (premiership & All Australian ruckman) after successive long term injuries.

Yep..

That is NOT a true comparison IMO...

Lade missed just missed one season and was still getting better...

Lade broke is leg in round 2 2000(v Freo) and did not play again that year.

He then broke is leg in a preseason game(not sure if it was the same leg) in 2001 and did not play again until 2002.

Was effectively 2 years of football.

Shaun Rehn was another who had sucessive long term injuries.

1995 rounds 1-3
1996 rounds 1-3

Also misssed all of 1999 after slipping on the centre disc in a preseason game.

Thanks for confirming the facts. I thought the Lade thing was a fair comparison personally. He was on the verge of being delisted a few seasons ago.

It took Lade until 2006 to become a good footballer again, my point is it can happen after successive setbacks. Now Lade is actually the fittest player at Port Adelaide just about & leading the way.

[St Fidelius]

I have not "written him off".....

He has never played a full season and the best we can hope for is 10 games...(that is would have to be the very best)

Yep your "foot issues" was what happened to Matthew Allen...

anyway I wish him well and have never stated that he is a "Wright off"

[Teflon]

I dont expect the "second coming" from Gardiner...what I hope and pray for is that he can do a "Warnie" and hold down an end so to speak for King operating at the other.

We will not be the best ruck combo in the comp....but we can increase markedly our competitiveness at the bounce/stoppgages and on a "good" day just maybe occasionally dominate........thats all Im after. If thats 8-10 from Gardiner plus 10-15 from King with the rest being a combo of either of these 2 and Rix and Kos (pinch hit only) then the gamble pays off.

Ofcourse....all that depends on "when" you get em on the park......run into finals with that sort of availability from King/gardiner and Lyons pulled off a miracle IMO.

[mad saint guy]

[Thanks for confirming the facts. I thought the Lade thing was a fair comparison personally. He was on the verge of being delisted a few seasons ago.

It took Lade until 2006 to become a good footballer again, my point is it can happen after successive setbacks. Now Lade is actually the fittest player at Port Adelaide just about & leading the way.

I don't think Lade was ever in any danger of being delisted. He had dropped off a bit after returning from injury, but made steady improvement each year and stayed completely injury free from age 26 (2003) to present. He was yet to peak, had good support from their other ruckmen and had no complications after his two missed years.

Gardiner has alwasy been injury-ridden. In his 10 years in the AFL, he has only played more than 18 games in a season twice. He was just a solid player up until 2002 and 2003, when he became the dominant ruckman of the competition (even though he missed 10 games in those years). After that he has just had injury after injury. He has not played any reasonable amount of football for four years.

The fact that he's still on our list would indicate that he still has a decent chance of playing footy again, but if he does get on the field, I wouldn't expect anything more than an 8 possession, 15 hitout average as a backup ruckman. He won't have the spring required to dominate center bounces anymore, he'll be pretty much useless at ground level and he's far to slow to be a forward. But he's strong, agressive and has a good footy brain. Pretty much Michael Rix if you substitute the athleticism for talent.

We do not have a strong ruck division, but it may not be as much of a liability since Knobel left. Despite his lack of skill, he did have a prescence in the ruck and usually beat his opponent in the hitouts. We weren't strong in the ruck back then, but we didn't lose games because of it either. Rix doesn't have the height to do what Knobel did and he doesn't have the skill to make up for it around the ground. We now have two experienced rucks who might be able to be reasonable both in the ruck contests and around the ground, but they won't ever be as good as in 2002-2003.