This has been a problem for most of the season but has become glaringly obvious in the last month or so...
fadeout v collingwood, letting the blues in, fadeout v dogs and swans too
we fail consistently, almost absolutely, to execute SIMPLE skills
fundamental, simple skills
Short kicking, marking on the lead, chest marks, hitting a leading player, 5m handballs, 10m handballs...the list goes on
all the easy stuff, both under pressure and with all day to do it
it kills us...it explains why we've been woeful in a lot of games...if we could do these things - normally a given for an afl side - we would be top 4 with 4 extra wins
it effects our game big time
the reason why our forward line is cramped is because we move the ball slowly...the reason we move the ball slowly is that everytime we have the footy, by failing in these simple skills time and time again, we have to double back, throw in an extra sideways pass to steady etc....and this ends up taking a helluva lot more time
in an age when players are so damn fast, even 1 extra kick means a lot for your space further afield
so we hack it towards a now crowded 50 and then just hack it inside...we hit one, maybe two fwd 50 targets last night, dal to x i remember...
so we kick rubbish into our 50 and it gets cleaned up and whisked away by all the opposition numbers...
if our skills were tight, not only would we be hitting targets inside 50 better, we would be hitting them in a less crowded 50...
we are our own worst enemy...we have beaten ourselves more than anyone else this year
people wanna blame gherig? plugger would struggle at FF for us right now
i understand the need to present to give these options...not doing so is one of my pet hates, but rooey always presents and we always miss him...so, whilst more lead up options would also help, it wouldn't matter if we just kept on missin em
we need the ball in the hands of dal...he is our only great user at the moment...gram can be, sam fisher can be, hayes can be, harvs can be, joey can be....etc, etc...but none of them are doing it
BJ, where are you?
Failure To Execute Simple Skills
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carn_sainter
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JeffDunne
The most disappointing aspect of this season for me has been how our skills have fallen away.
From my layman's perspective, it seems to me that too much time has been spent on the technical aspects of the game and not enough on the fundamentals. Too much time in meetings and not enough actually handling the pill.
The game plan has taken the fun out of watching this team play - I fear it might have taken the fun out of playing in it too.
From my layman's perspective, it seems to me that too much time has been spent on the technical aspects of the game and not enough on the fundamentals. Too much time in meetings and not enough actually handling the pill.
The game plan has taken the fun out of watching this team play - I fear it might have taken the fun out of playing in it too.
Last edited by JeffDunne on Sun 12 Aug 2007 12:23pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Superboot
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Good post, and some very good points.
In close handballing is shocking at times. Twice in the last quarter by a co-captain brought us undone.
Handpassing under no pressure over 10 metres is poor. Too often the receiving player has to bend to take ball around his knees. It's just basic.
We have one big bloke, in particular, who can barely take an uncontested mark without spilling it.
In close handballing is shocking at times. Twice in the last quarter by a co-captain brought us undone.
Handpassing under no pressure over 10 metres is poor. Too often the receiving player has to bend to take ball around his knees. It's just basic.
We have one big bloke, in particular, who can barely take an uncontested mark without spilling it.
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evertonfc
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This is one thing I sincerley hope we've been working on over summer.
I reckon our disposal, by hand and foot, went from excellent in 04-05 to average in '06 to downright shoddy in '07.
We picked our skills up a bit by the end of the year, but the precision with which we moved the ball in previous years was still lacking.
I really felt like it was something which went missing from our game. Hitting targets is just essential to winning games of football.
I'm not convinced about Geelong's ability to back it up in 2008, but what I will say about them is that they consistently used the footy well in '07. I actually thought this was frequently overlooked in the analysis of their play. They hit target after target and always looked put the ball either in the hands of a teammate, or if that wasn't guarenteed, to the best possible advantage of that player.
A lot of the time we seemed unable to direct simple passes, but just as importantly, we seemed to move the ball, particuarly early in the season, without purpose and intent.
Yes, I'm all for the pressure and intensity (I do believe it to be the most important thing in footy), but keeping your skills finely tuned has to be splitting-hairs second.
Firing out a handball to advantage from the bottom of a pack; converting on the run from 40m; kicking to competitive space when there's no options available; getting the ball effectively out of the defensive 50m from kickouts; hitting a leading forward on the chest. These things really do matter and have an enourmous impact of the game.
I really hope the addition of Schneider and Dempster - added to the return of Goddard - will give us an instant lift in this department. Let's hope that other blokes who use the footy well but have been hampered by injury and/or form (Ball, Dal Santo, Hayes) can also get themselves hitting targets more frequently.
I know it's not a tactical masterstroke and largely commonsense, but there's nothing obsolete about hitting your targets in my book.
Hopefully RL's got the boys shooting the lights as we speak.
I reckon our disposal, by hand and foot, went from excellent in 04-05 to average in '06 to downright shoddy in '07.
We picked our skills up a bit by the end of the year, but the precision with which we moved the ball in previous years was still lacking.
I really felt like it was something which went missing from our game. Hitting targets is just essential to winning games of football.
I'm not convinced about Geelong's ability to back it up in 2008, but what I will say about them is that they consistently used the footy well in '07. I actually thought this was frequently overlooked in the analysis of their play. They hit target after target and always looked put the ball either in the hands of a teammate, or if that wasn't guarenteed, to the best possible advantage of that player.
A lot of the time we seemed unable to direct simple passes, but just as importantly, we seemed to move the ball, particuarly early in the season, without purpose and intent.
Yes, I'm all for the pressure and intensity (I do believe it to be the most important thing in footy), but keeping your skills finely tuned has to be splitting-hairs second.
Firing out a handball to advantage from the bottom of a pack; converting on the run from 40m; kicking to competitive space when there's no options available; getting the ball effectively out of the defensive 50m from kickouts; hitting a leading forward on the chest. These things really do matter and have an enourmous impact of the game.
I really hope the addition of Schneider and Dempster - added to the return of Goddard - will give us an instant lift in this department. Let's hope that other blokes who use the footy well but have been hampered by injury and/or form (Ball, Dal Santo, Hayes) can also get themselves hitting targets more frequently.
I know it's not a tactical masterstroke and largely commonsense, but there's nothing obsolete about hitting your targets in my book.
Hopefully RL's got the boys shooting the lights as we speak.
Last edited by evertonfc on Thu 24 Jan 2008 8:38am, edited 1 time in total.
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Teflon
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This is a good thread and poor skills have been a complaint of mine - even back in our 04 heydey when we had a streak (sorta pales into insignificance when you see Geelong celebrate a flag...).
If you think about it we've never really been a "silky smooth" skilled side in the mold of a fast, target hitting Port Adelaide - even at our peak....we more or less overwhelmed sides in the guts with some grunt mids (Powell, Thompson and Co now missed...) and put the ball into a good fwd line more often than not - that doesnt mean that Nick Riewoldt or Gehrig has ever been a dead eye dick (aka Jason Heately etc) what it does say is hes a far superior all round fwd that gets enough shots on goal via stamina/ability....but back on topic.
Yes we have skillful players - we just arent blessed with that many (particularly by foot) - look at our super target hitters by foot.....the kind of player that gets the footy and you know the target 99% of time will be hit and I think of 1...Dal Santo (its why his 15 touches far outweigh Montagnas 25 for example.....class and he hurts you and its also why oppo sides sit on him). No not every side has 15 Dal Santos but they do have across the Board better skills by foot - look at Ports midfield group and identify a real dud kick in there? (no offence to Powell and Thommo but they were lousy kicks..). Its also why we missed A Jones when he left (too early still for mine..) and replaced him with Gram. Yes Gram can run and score and yes he can also still run into trouble and on many occasions the ball slews off his boot and your left thinking.....Aussie woulda drilled that....(even the great Harvey duffs a few and isnt a noted finisher by foot.....but when youve had it 40 times at 36 yrs old well cut some slack....).
I read not so long ago how recruiters now look to this skill as the no 1 - over pace everything - its just so crucial......its why in many cases deadly HBF with good foot skills (think Lindsay Gilbee from Dogs) are now the "quarterbacks" of modern AFL.
If you think about it we've never really been a "silky smooth" skilled side in the mold of a fast, target hitting Port Adelaide - even at our peak....we more or less overwhelmed sides in the guts with some grunt mids (Powell, Thompson and Co now missed...) and put the ball into a good fwd line more often than not - that doesnt mean that Nick Riewoldt or Gehrig has ever been a dead eye dick (aka Jason Heately etc) what it does say is hes a far superior all round fwd that gets enough shots on goal via stamina/ability....but back on topic.
Yes we have skillful players - we just arent blessed with that many (particularly by foot) - look at our super target hitters by foot.....the kind of player that gets the footy and you know the target 99% of time will be hit and I think of 1...Dal Santo (its why his 15 touches far outweigh Montagnas 25 for example.....class and he hurts you and its also why oppo sides sit on him). No not every side has 15 Dal Santos but they do have across the Board better skills by foot - look at Ports midfield group and identify a real dud kick in there? (no offence to Powell and Thommo but they were lousy kicks..). Its also why we missed A Jones when he left (too early still for mine..) and replaced him with Gram. Yes Gram can run and score and yes he can also still run into trouble and on many occasions the ball slews off his boot and your left thinking.....Aussie woulda drilled that....(even the great Harvey duffs a few and isnt a noted finisher by foot.....but when youve had it 40 times at 36 yrs old well cut some slack....).
I read not so long ago how recruiters now look to this skill as the no 1 - over pace everything - its just so crucial......its why in many cases deadly HBF with good foot skills (think Lindsay Gilbee from Dogs) are now the "quarterbacks" of modern AFL.
“Yeah….nah””
Interesting post. I have posted before how Riewoldt works hard on the lead and gets clear but the relatively easy kick hits the ground in front of him or over his head to the trailing opposition. It is a wonder he doesn't just walk off in disgust. Riewoldt in a good team would be unstoppable.
Dal Santo gets a hard tag each week as he is our only 10/10 foot skills player. Montagna is now 9/10 so also now gets tagged most weeks. Opposition teams just have to stop these 2 getting the ball and the rest don't have the consistent foot skills or vision to hurt the them.
It is the same with Geelong. You must stop G.Ablett getting the ball as every touch kills you. Joel Corey gets 30 touches but no one tags him as his disposals don't hurt you consistently and often are turn overs. Bartel won a Brownlow because G. Ablett is so good and takes all the heat.
X when fit and up and running has great vision and great kicking skills on the left foot. If he or one or 2 others can play well consistently it changes the whole team as the opposition can not tag everyone. It would not take a lot for our midfield to step up and really click. Hayes, Baker and Ball to do the hard stuff with Dal, X, Montagna and hopefully one other to step up (hopefully Goddard) with Harvey off the bench looks great to me. A fit Ball, Hayes, Goddard and X would take a lot of heat off Dal. Lets hope one of Armitage, Howard, or Geary can step up and play some regular games as this also would spread the opposition.
Those who are talking up Gram as a midfielder, please look at some replays as his ability to hit targets is not good. Dal takes most kick ins because of this. He was relegated to a stopper in the back line last season (and did a pretty good job often) and the Aussie Jones role of attacking defender was given to Sam Fisher as his ability to hit targets is much better.
Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing a fit midfield for the first time in years with an even spread of talent to really hurt opposition sides.
Dal Santo gets a hard tag each week as he is our only 10/10 foot skills player. Montagna is now 9/10 so also now gets tagged most weeks. Opposition teams just have to stop these 2 getting the ball and the rest don't have the consistent foot skills or vision to hurt the them.
It is the same with Geelong. You must stop G.Ablett getting the ball as every touch kills you. Joel Corey gets 30 touches but no one tags him as his disposals don't hurt you consistently and often are turn overs. Bartel won a Brownlow because G. Ablett is so good and takes all the heat.
X when fit and up and running has great vision and great kicking skills on the left foot. If he or one or 2 others can play well consistently it changes the whole team as the opposition can not tag everyone. It would not take a lot for our midfield to step up and really click. Hayes, Baker and Ball to do the hard stuff with Dal, X, Montagna and hopefully one other to step up (hopefully Goddard) with Harvey off the bench looks great to me. A fit Ball, Hayes, Goddard and X would take a lot of heat off Dal. Lets hope one of Armitage, Howard, or Geary can step up and play some regular games as this also would spread the opposition.
Those who are talking up Gram as a midfielder, please look at some replays as his ability to hit targets is not good. Dal takes most kick ins because of this. He was relegated to a stopper in the back line last season (and did a pretty good job often) and the Aussie Jones role of attacking defender was given to Sam Fisher as his ability to hit targets is much better.
Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing a fit midfield for the first time in years with an even spread of talent to really hurt opposition sides.
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milney044
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you bring up very good points DK27.
i'm with you, i hope we finally see a fully fit midfield in 2008. i just watched the match where BJ went down. No wonder we didn't win another game for a month after that, hearing the list of our injured players makes me cringe. 8 of our starting 22 were missing. what i also forget is the fact that lenny did his collarbone early in the season last year.
if only we could get them all on the park we might not only see the best of Dal but the best of the team as whole. Seriously when is the last time we had a decent run with injuries? i'm talking like a month with no serious set backs. remembering we had something like 24 players to choose from when we came up against hawthorn.
these injuries add to the lack of executing simple skills, im not saying they are the soul cause but they do play a big part.
i'm with you, i hope we finally see a fully fit midfield in 2008. i just watched the match where BJ went down. No wonder we didn't win another game for a month after that, hearing the list of our injured players makes me cringe. 8 of our starting 22 were missing. what i also forget is the fact that lenny did his collarbone early in the season last year.
if only we could get them all on the park we might not only see the best of Dal but the best of the team as whole. Seriously when is the last time we had a decent run with injuries? i'm talking like a month with no serious set backs. remembering we had something like 24 players to choose from when we came up against hawthorn.
these injuries add to the lack of executing simple skills, im not saying they are the soul cause but they do play a big part.
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Saints Premiers 2008
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i would be more than happy if opposition teams rate joey as highly as some of us do on this forum...
if he gets tagged every week i would expect our midfield (fully fit) to run riot
a fully fit lenny, ball finally going under the knife and rehabbing properly (here is hoping)....finally we could have a fully fit inside and outside mid
here is hoping
if he gets tagged every week i would expect our midfield (fully fit) to run riot
a fully fit lenny, ball finally going under the knife and rehabbing properly (here is hoping)....finally we could have a fully fit inside and outside mid
here is hoping
"It's a work in progress," Lyon said.
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Teflon
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I agree SP. Joey has come a long way and to me right now hes a very good mid but hes not top of the tree on oppo coaches mind Im tipping and while his foot skills can be great they also go off the boil a bit also.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:i would be more than happy if opposition teams rate joey as highly as some of us do on this forum...
if he gets tagged every week i would expect our midfield (fully fit) to run riot
a fully fit lenny, ball finally going under the knife and rehabbing properly (here is hoping)....finally we could have a fully fit inside and outside mid
here is hoping
“Yeah….nah””
I've watched some of "the streak" 2004 games lately and one of the key strengths of Bally (pre OP - or limited OP) is that he had great creative kicking skills. I didn't notice any game breaking runs, bursts of speed or 60m bombs, just creative and accurate kicking (plus some very slick hands).Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:a fully fit lenny, ball finally going under the knife and rehabbing properly (here is hoping)....finally we could have a fully fit inside and outside mid
I've been meaning (and intend to) review a few 2007 games and see how these compare.
The other thing I noticed was (as Teflon noted above) the impact of Powell and Thompson, these two tough nuts really opened things up for Bally and Dal in the 04 games I've rewatched. Hopefully Armo, Birss, Mini or Eddy could step into this breach (hard to see though, lack of size & youth being issues).
sidenote - daydreaming on the tram the other day (apologies if this is blindingly obvious to most) - wouldn't Eddy make the perfect tagger? can run (with) all day, is tough in the contest and can accumulate plenty of touches...
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aussiejones
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How often have we seen Gehrig going crook at the up the field guys nor kicking the pill where he wants it ?
Hopefully there can be some better communication at training .
Read this together with above comment regarding NicK reiwolts frustration anout the delivery to him.
I know the guys up the ground are under pressure most of the time , but I am talking set kicks ....... and skills.
Hopefully there can be some better communication at training .
Read this together with above comment regarding NicK reiwolts frustration anout the delivery to him.
I know the guys up the ground are under pressure most of the time , but I am talking set kicks ....... and skills.