David King has another swipe at the club??

[Impatient Sainter]

Crikey he is a tool, the guy has NFI about clubs in the industry he works in. How he keeps getting air time and media grabs defies any sense. It was only 3 years ago he was being critical of Melbournes list build and putting heat on their coach. He has a very short memory and the IQ of a nat.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-tr ... 535fd3e253

[Sainter_Dad]

ST KILDA

it’s a strange one because their list profile is for the now but I don’t think they’re good enough now. So I think they need to step back a little bit, go to the draft, find some more talent and have a bit of patience. I think they overreached and were trying to be a bit optimistic by going and grabbing Hannebery and Hill and Crouch when they probably weren’t ready, so now they need to take some time. The problem is it leaves them with only a small window, because in two or three years time their best players are going to be closer to 30. They’ve got themselves in this pickle and they’ll need everything to go right for them to win a premiership in the next few years.

They don’t have a window, I’m sorry. This has been a construct that no one else would’ve put together. I couldn’t be as bullish on this list or contending in two years time as what others are. Where are their stars coming from? Where are their top-liners coming from? We’ve been sold that next year was their year, but they can’t keep sending letters every year. If next year is your year, let’s see it. I don’t believe it’s there, I really don’t. It’s a bit harsh to say, but they’ve had four top-30 picks in the last four years, so there’s a void coming that’s chasing these 27 and 28-year-olds. If they’re not contending in the next two years, the gap arrives and you end up on the never-ending rebuild treadmill.”

Premiership window: 2024-2026

I don't like David King - but seriously - is he that far off the mark if we serve up 2021 - if we revert to 2020 and add the growth of the younger players on the list then we stand a chance - but realistically - when do you see our Premiership coming?

I remember post on this forum saying that people believe they will be dead before the next flag!!!

We have a serious dearth of older Stars - FFS - Our Captain - our Bright Shining Star is only just about to turn 26

Player	Age
Heath, Max	18
Allison, Matt	19
Byrnes, Ryan	20
Connolly, Leo	20
Bytel, Jack	21
Coffield, Nick	21
King, Max	21
Sharman, Cooper	21
Clark, Hunter	22
Higgins, Jack	22
Battle, Josh	23
Highmore, Tom	23
Paton, Ben	23
Gresham, Jade	24
Joyce, Darragh	24
Long, Ben	24
Butler, Dan	25
Howard, Dougal	25
Lonie, Jack	25
Marshall, Rowan	25
McKenzie, Daniel	25
Steele, Jack	25
Wilkie, Callum	25
Billings, Jack	26
Jones, Zak	26
Sinclair, Jack	26
Crouch, Brad	27
Kent, Dean	27
Membrey, Tim	27
Hill, Bradley	28
Hunter, Paul	28
Ross, Sebastian	28
Webster, Jimmy	28
Wood, Mason	28
Hannebery, Dan	30
Geary, Jarryn	33
Ryder, Paddy	33

[Life Long Saint]

How many saw the Melbourne premiership coming at the start of the season?
How many saw the first Richmond flag in 2017 coming at the start of the season?
How many saw the Bullgods flag in 2016 coming at the start of the season?

To win a flag, everything has to go right for that team in that season to make the finals. Then everything has to go right in September. Then everything has to go right on the day.

The back half of this season showed me that we are competitive with the best teams. We beat Sydney and Brisbane. Ran Geelong, Port, and West Coast very close. We had one really bad game against Carlton.
We are not a top 4 team yet, and there was no player in the trade period that we could add to make us a top 4 team.

I seriously don't know what they expect us to do. Last season we were applauded for having two wonderful trade periods. We draft some good players and now these same players are the reason why we're not rated.

Crouch had a good year. Jones spent most of it injured. Hill wasn't at his best. And Hannebery missed almost all of it. Throw in Gresham and Paton out injured and Billings playing hurt, Clark and Ryder missing games, and Marshall with a foot...Any wonder we didn't have a great 2021. But we finished the season well.
King stepped up to take games on. We look like we've found a good one in Sharman. Byrnes, Connelly, Bytel will all develop. Sinclair stepped up in the half back role. Highmore filled a role.

If we draft the NGA kids we're after and get a good player with our first pick, then I suspect we'll be OK.

[cwrcyn]

We have about 17 players aged 25 or under who can fit into that senior team. If we don't secure some high quality youngsters this year and next then we might end up being a middling team treading water for the next few seasons. King is right about the lack of star quality, however, he seems to think that the list is too old. Has he seen Geelong's list lately? The only senior players who will be up for retirement in the next four years on our list are Hannebery and Geary, and maybe Ross and Webster.

We get the next two year right and we will be a chance in 2023 & 2024. King forgets that Melbourne added 5 of its premiership players in the last two years

[Sainter_Dad]

How many saw the Melbourne premiership coming at the start of the season?
How many saw the first Richmond flag in 2017 coming at the start of the season?
How many saw the Bullgods flag in 2016 coming at the start of the season?

To win a flag, everything has to go right for that team in that season to make the finals. Then everything has to go right in September. Then everything has to go right on the day.

The back half of this season showed me that we are competitive with the best teams. We beat Sydney and Brisbane. Ran Geelong, Port, and West Coast very close. We had one really bad game against Carlton.
We are not a top 4 team yet, and there was no player in the trade period that we could add to make us a top 4 team.

I seriously don't know what they expect us to do. Last season we were applauded for having two wonderful trade periods. We draft some good players and now these same players are the reason why we're not rated.

Crouch had a good year. Jones spent most of it injured. Hill wasn't at his best. And Hannebery missed almost all of it. Throw in Gresham and Paton out injured and Billings playing hurt, Clark and Ryder missing games, and Marshall with a foot...Any wonder we didn't have a great 2021. But we finished the season well.
King stepped up to take games on. We look like we've found a good one in Sharman. Byrnes, Connelly, Bytel will all develop. Sinclair stepped up in the half back role. Highmore filled a role.

If we draft the NGA kids we're after and get a good player with our first pick, then I suspect we'll be OK.

I totally agree - but Okay does not win you a Flag - and we are viewing it through Tri-Coloured Glasses - If you were King or Monty - would you stake your house on us winning the Big Dance any time soon?

[Life Long Saint]

How many saw the Melbourne premiership coming at the start of the season?
How many saw the first Richmond flag in 2017 coming at the start of the season?
How many saw the Bullgods flag in 2016 coming at the start of the season?

To win a flag, everything has to go right for that team in that season to make the finals. Then everything has to go right in September. Then everything has to go right on the day.

The back half of this season showed me that we are competitive with the best teams. We beat Sydney and Brisbane. Ran Geelong, Port, and West Coast very close. We had one really bad game against Carlton.
We are not a top 4 team yet, and there was no player in the trade period that we could add to make us a top 4 team.

I seriously don't know what they expect us to do. Last season we were applauded for having two wonderful trade periods. We draft some good players and now these same players are the reason why we're not rated.

Crouch had a good year. Jones spent most of it injured. Hill wasn't at his best. And Hannebery missed almost all of it. Throw in Gresham and Paton out injured and Billings playing hurt, Clark and Ryder missing games, and Marshall with a foot...Any wonder we didn't have a great 2021. But we finished the season well.
King stepped up to take games on. We look like we've found a good one in Sharman. Byrnes, Connelly, Bytel will all develop. Sinclair stepped up in the half back role. Highmore filled a role.

If we draft the NGA kids we're after and get a good player with our first pick, then I suspect we'll be OK.

I totally agree - but Okay does not win you a Flag - and we are viewing it through Tri-Coloured Glasses - If you were King or Monty - would you stake your house on us winning the Big Dance any time soon?

I'm certain that there is no team that I'd stake my house on winning a flag anytime soon. Not even Melbourne.
At the start of the 2020 season, Melbourne was being heavily criticised for their list. All the talk was that Goodwin would be lucky to see out the season. What changed? The current list stepped up! Petracca had a good 2020 and 2021. And they couldn't give McDonald away last trade period.
Melbourne and the Bulldogs we're only OK at the start of 2021. Melbourne missed the finals and the Bulldogs were beaten by us in an Elimination final in 2020.

I kow that King and Joey are paid for comment but their analysis is lazy.

[Vortex]

I recon one way of being objective about that article is read Kingy's and Joey's views on the other 17 clubs and see if you find yourself agreeing with most of their assessments of those clubs, if you do then you need to ask yourself if they might be looking at our club like most outsiders currently are.

Personally I think our list is delicately balanced and as Kingy and Joey put it, balanced between conquer and cliff.

We do have the core of a promising list however we really are going to need a fair few to go to the next level because it's becoming clear the talent pool is going to be COVID effected for several years and many clubs, including ours, either don't have the cash or draft capital to do anything about improving lists for the short term, and in any case, as I say the talent pool looks like being thin.

Melbourne and the Dogs are probably the best placed clubs because they already have fully stocked list builds at the start of this ensuing pandemic effected period.

At the very least we need to have an incredibly good run of luck with injuries over the next few years and then as I say I think we will need a fair few on the list to go up a gear or two.

[Sanctorum]

I don't take any notice of what the armchair critics on Fox Footy and elsewhere say about St Kilda's prospects for 2022, as I said before, they're paid to be provocative in their list analysis, to stir up controversy and get supporters worked up so that they'll ring in and fan the flames that they've so mischievously lit....

St Kilda's improvement in 2022 is going to have to be led by the players, and we all know that apart from one or two guns, every player on the list has the capacity to make considerable improvement in their fitness and skill levels. I would like to see the players commit to unreservedly do this because unless they do, the much vaunted "premiership window" will remain closed.

It is up to the coaches and senior players to set benchmarks for every single player, and to convene regular team meetings during the pre-season to analyse and critique every player's progress in open sessions where there's nowhere to hide. That's the best way to build team spirit and develop a culture of success!

[CURLY]

David King is still dumbfounded we didn't take Gresham at 5. We could have had Gresham and Carlisle but chose to trade 5.

[older saint]

This is the guy who sits in the media and throws darts but when had to put them on the line in the coaching box either left or was moved on.
If he is as good as he believes surely 18 clubs are knocking down his door.

[cwrcyn]

25 and under

B: Paton Howard Wilkie
HB: Coffield Highmore McKenzie
C: Clark Gresham Connolly
HF: Butler Battle Long
F: Higgins King Sharman

R: Marshall Steele Byrnes

Inter: Bytel Lonie

[Beno88]

We have the ability to beat any side in the comp, it's just a matter of doing it week in week out.

We'll be top 6 in 2022.

[terry smith rules]

Crikey he is a tool, the guy has NFI about clubs in the industry he works in. How he keeps getting air time and media grabs defies any sense. It was only 3 years ago he was being critical of Melbournes list build and putting heat on their coach. He has a very short memory and the IQ of a nat.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-tr ... 535fd3e253

A bit precious aren’t you?

Joey is just as doubtful on our future as King.

As for their research on teams I’m not sure there are two commentators who do more in terms of analysing games.

The last few weeks this forum has been full of people questioning our window because of our list.

It’s a simple question where and who are our future a graders. Melbourne have elite footballers on every line of their team… literally. Saints ??

[cwrcyn]

Look at Geelong. They have 7 players under the age of 27 and none are among their best players. I think I'd rather be us

[cwrcyn]

The Bulldogs have basically the same age profile a us, yet they're still in the window. Mind you, they've had a couple of gifts thrown the way in Ugle-Hagan and Darcy two years running

[CURLY]

25 and under

B: Paton Howard Wilkie
HB: Coffield Highmore McKenzie
C: Clark Gresham Connolly
HF: Butler Battle Long
F: Higgins King Sharman

R: Marshall Steele Byrnes

Inter: Bytel Lonie

Yep plus three highly rated kids this draft fingers crossed with the NGA kids.

[Impatient Sainter]

I recon one way of being objective about that article is read Kingy's and Joey's views on the other 17 clubs and see if you find yourself agreeing with most of their assessments of those clubs, if you do then you need to ask yourself if they might be looking at our club like most outsiders currently are.

Personally I think our list is delicately balanced and as Kingy and Joey put it, balanced between conquer and cliff.

We do have the core of a promising list however we really are going to need a fair few to go to the next level because it's becoming clear the talent pool is going to be COVID effected for several years and many clubs, including ours, either don't have the cash or draft capital to do anything about improving lists for the short term, and in any case, as I say the talent pool looks like being thin.

Melbourne and the Dogs are probably the best placed clubs because they already have fully stocked list builds at the start of this ensuing pandemic effected period.

At the very least we need to have an incredibly good run of luck with injuries over the next few years and then as I say I think we will need a fair few on the list to go up a gear or two.

Have a look at the age demographics posted by Sainter_Dad most of the players expected to featuring in our next serious attempt are 28 or younger. The clubs list was disgracefully managed and eroded for over a decade before the current list management team took over. They have turned things around in 3 short years, imagine what can happen in 5 or 6 years. Lists arent rebuilt overnight and the quick fix has always been the clubs panacea.

King was singing the clubs praises after 2020 and predicted we would continue to improve in 2021. The club seriously under acheived this year for a number of reasons, but I dont agree that our list is in poor shape. I think we are a couple of years off being serious contenders. In any event the club was in a precarious financial position and financially couldn't afford to bottom out and go into another complete rebuild. They had to sell their sponsors and supporters hope and if that meant bringing players like Hannebrey & Hill then so be it.

I do agree that a number of players need to go to the next level for us to reach the ultimate goal, but just having a fit and available list will expedentionally lift the group. So its far from the doom & gloom that DK was painting IMO.

[st.byron]

Montagna does have a good point about over reaching with Hannebery and Hill. Would have been better to put those resources into younger players IMO. Crouch I think has been a good pickup.

[Vortex]

I recon one way of being objective about that article is read Kingy's and Joey's views on the other 17 clubs and see if you find yourself agreeing with most of their assessments of those clubs, if you do then you need to ask yourself if they might be looking at our club like most outsiders currently are.

Personally I think our list is delicately balanced and as Kingy and Joey put it, balanced between conquer and cliff.

We do have the core of a promising list however we really are going to need a fair few to go to the next level because it's becoming clear the talent pool is going to be COVID effected for several years and many clubs, including ours, either don't have the cash or draft capital to do anything about improving lists for the short term, and in any case, as I say the talent pool looks like being thin.

Melbourne and the Dogs are probably the best placed clubs because they already have fully stocked list builds at the start of this ensuing pandemic effected period.

At the very least we need to have an incredibly good run of luck with injuries over the next few years and then as I say I think we will need a fair few on the list to go up a gear or two.

Have a look at the age demographics posted by Sainter_Dad most of the players expected to featuring in our next serious attempt are 28 or younger. The clubs list was disgracefully managed and eroded for over a decade before the current list management team took over. They have turned things around in 3 short years, imagine what can happen in 5 or 6 years. Lists arent rebuilt overnight and the quick fix has always been the clubs panacea.

King was singing the clubs praises after 2020 and predicted we would continue to improve in 2021. The club seriously under acheived this year for a number of reasons, but I dont agree that our list is in poor shape. I think we are a couple of years off being serious contenders. In any event the club was in a precarious financial position and financially couldn't afford to bottom out and go into another complete rebuild. They had to sell their sponsors and supporters hope and if that meant bringing players like Hannebrey & Hill then so be it.

I do agree that a number of players need to go to the next level for us to reach the ultimate goal, but just having a fit and available list will expedentionally lift the group. So its far from the doom & gloom that DK was painting IMO.

Don't get me wrong, SDs posting of the age demographic highlights my view about the list being delicately balanced, yes the age profile has good growth in terms of longevity but by the same token there are too many that haven't announced themselves as potential top 4 players so that growth could fall off a cliff quickly if we find the same young players just aren't capable of taking us to a Flag. Take Sharman for example, it worries me that many fans believe he has cemented his spot as the type that can be in a forward line capable of a flag, absolutey he blitzed his first few games, but there are hundreds before him who have done the same only to be sent to the scrap heap very early.

Look we are fanatics and whilst I'm bullish about this list I have also observed this season the fragility of the list. This season was a reality check like we haven't had before, maybe that is why pundits like King have a different view about us from 2020 to 2021.

I'm going into 2022 believing we can bounce back hard and maybe even go further than 2020 but as I say, we need two ingredients, luck with injury, and we need some of these promising types to deliver.

Get that and who knows how far we can go.

[cwrcyn]

The good thing about our players under 23 years of age is that there is massive scope for improvement. The likes of King, Byrnes, Connelly, Clark, Higgins, Paton, and Sharman all have the scope to be very high quality players. If the penny drops with Coffield, he could be, too.

[Mr Magic]

The good thing about our players under 23 years of age is that there is massive scope for improvement. The likes of King, Byrnes, Connelly, Clark, Higgins, Paton, and Sharman all have the scope to be very high quality players. If the penny drops with Coffield, he could be, too.

And Bytel - I think he's going to prove to be a special player for us.

[Impatient Sainter]

Crikey he is a tool, the guy has NFI about clubs in the industry he works in. How he keeps getting air time and media grabs defies any sense. It was only 3 years ago he was being critical of Melbournes list build and putting heat on their coach. He has a very short memory and the IQ of a nat.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-tr ... 535fd3e253

A bit precious aren’t you?

Joey is just as doubtful on our future as King.

As for their research on teams I’m not sure there are two commentators who do more in terms of analysing games.

The last few weeks this forum has been full of people questioning our window because of our list.

It’s a simple question where and who are our future a graders. Melbourne have elite footballers on every line of their team… literally. Saints ??

I think you are giving Montagna & King way too much credit on the quality of research they do on teams. They probably spend more time on the shows production meetings than they do research. If I come across as precious then so be it, I get sick of so called experts taking a free kick at our club just because they can. Take Gawn, Langdon, Viney, May, Fritch, Salem etc out of Melbourne's side and there is no way they are playing in a GF.

There is a fine line between sucess and failure, some of it is management but with the injuries we had this year it was just bad luck. In short we had the season Melbourne had in 2019 and they didnt have the recognised elite players back then. May was unfit, Petracca & Oliver were not the stars they were this year, the only constant elite player was Gawn. So a lot can change in a short space of time and to suggest we wont have future A graders is a defeatist opinion.

[Devilhead]

A bit of luck with injuries, further development from our younger players and improve the mental side of our game and we are a chance

[cwrcyn]

Yep, the same things were being written about Melbourne two years ago at the end of the 2019 season. Since then, some players have developed, but they brought in Jackson, Rivers, Pickett, Brown, Langdon, and Bowey, who all played in their premiership. That's six players they brought in in less than 18 months, and it made the difference, along with becoming the fittest team in the league by a country mile.

We need to bring in some talent, there's no doubt, and our needs come down to one quality midfielder, one tall key defender, and one competent back up ruckman. The way King writes, it's as if we are way off the mark with no hope of challenging in the next two years with seemingly a drop off after that because we won't have Hannebery and Geary anymore . He often talks about how quickly things can turn around, and it clearly did for Melbourne with a similar playing list (in 2019). Apparently, that doesn't apply when it comes to us. But the sky is not falling. With careful selections over the next 18 months and the improvement from our younger brigade we can be a genuine challenger.

I believe we actually have people in charge now who are up to the task.

[st.byron]

Yep, the same things were being written about Melbourne two years ago at the end of the 2019 season. Since then, some players have developed, but they brought in Jackson, Rivers, Pickett, Brown, Langdon, and Bowey, who all played in their premiership. That's six players they brought in in less than 18 months, and it made the difference, along with becoming the fittest team in the league by a country mile.

We need to bring in some talent, there's no doubt, and our needs come down to one quality midfielder, one tall key defender, and one competent back up ruckman. The way King writes, it's as if we are way off the mark with no hope of challenging in the next two years with seemingly a drop off after that because we won't have Hannebery and Geary anymore . He often talks about how quickly things can turn around, and it clearly did for Melbourne with a similar playing list (in 2019). Apparently, that doesn't apply when it comes to us. But the sky is not falling. With careful selections over the next 18 months and the improvement from our younger brigade we can be a genuine challenger.

I believe we actually have people in charge now who are up to the task.

Plus they have Oliver and Petracca. Got to be two of the top 5 mids in the comp. That helps. Viney's no slouch either. Plus Gawn. They're evenly excellent across the park with no real obvious weaknesses. We do have some obvious holes, like you say: KPD, high quality mid - I think we need two, ruckman.

Bing would be good, but I wouldn't sell the farm to get him, not at the expense of an elite mid. Melb won their flag with Brown, Fritsch and MacDonald as their main tall forwards. It was their goal kicking, kick arse, bulldozing midfield along with Gawn that set it up. Jackson's some player as well.