Dougal Howard

[skeptic]

Got to say, I feel sorry for the kid...

Got his pants pulled down last night but for a while now he’s being treated like a player that is viewed as being able to do it all himself

He’s not.

Max Hudghton had this legacy of being an incredible defender that was rarely beaten but the reality is that in weaker teams when he was head and shoulders our best defender, he got smashed quite a few times and understandably so. In the better St.Kilda where he looked a $1million, he had Penny at FB, and Maguire at CHB whilst Max played third tall and led the backline, kept it organised.

Then at later times he had Fisher at CHB and a few guys that could go third man up without too much trouble.

Howard looked at his best when he had another contested mark taking tall with a bit of mongrel in him in Carlisle there with Wilkie playing the flexible tall...
It occurs to me now that the backs are really struggling without a clear leader as well. Don’t know who that is supposed to be exactly.

Obviously Geary drove that for a while and I’m starting to thinking that Clark as a clever and composed guy is being missed back there a lot more than ppl realise.

The super back 6 last year
Paton, Howard, Wilkie
Coffield, Carlisle, Clark

Paton and Carlisle was unfortunate
Coffield doesn’t seem to know what he’s down but should be playing smaller... seems like they’ve tried to use him as a Wilkie type whilst Callum goes taller
Webster has been good enough and earned his spot
Sinclair’s done very well but I still like Clark better as a defender and general of the backline and SInclair as a mid
I’m miffed whilst Clavarino and Battle pre-injury didn’t play key back more even if they are undersized, they could at least support
Highmore... i don’t get his role. A medium sized marker without the expectation of dropping in front of their talls

It’s all a mess.

Howard is copping the worst of it but I don’t think it’s his fault

Without a shadow of a doubt a CHB this off-season is a mess

[Impatient Sainter]

Agree I was over critical of his efforts last night. You have to wonder how much the hamstring was bothering him and his movement before he went off injured.

[wally]

Yeah I think Dougal is good for us and perhaps Carlisle was underrated. He looked immobile and laconic but maybe structured everyone up. His body is shot now I reckon (jake c)

[cwrcyn]

We'd be screwed without Howard. With so many 200cm forwards in the game now, Having a 200cm key defender is crucial

[CURLY]

He had two marks taken on him in a half last night and apparently that’s smashed.

[skeptic]

He had two marks taken on him in a half last night and apparently that’s smashed.

Well I guess the defence had a rough night

This is really more about the narrative of Howard. Had copped it here a bit as of late

[CURLY]

He had two marks taken on him in a half last night and apparently that’s smashed.

Well I guess the defence had a rough night

This is really more about the narrative of Howard. Had copped it here a bit as of late

Agree with that. Our defence has been deicimated. Paton Gear Carlisle and Frawley all out for the majority of the year.

[The_Dud]

Some defenders are good one-on-one, and some love to be the third man up, the latter being Howard.

He’s not great one-on-one, and half the time he’s nowhere near his man anyway.

Wilkie was horribly undersized so was panicking and giving away frees, but at least he was right there with McKay at nearly every contest in the second half.

[B.M]

He is 199cm

He is a key defender (not a third)

His job is to play on Key Forwards

Has had some good games, has been average against some of the better forwards

MacKay and Kennedy both beat him.

He zones off, and gets caught out sometimes

[B.M]

Max was rarely beaten

Played for 13 seasons

Played 1.5 seasons with Penny

Played 3 seasons with Goose (injured in 06)

Played as an undersized FB for most years he played, and was rarely beaten

[Wayne42]

I'm intrigued about what is the best height for a Key Defender, most people think 195cm or taller is the ideal and you need 2 of them, but Longmire at Sydney is happy with Dane Rampe at 189cm and
Tom McCartin at 193cm. Sydney is 6th on the ladder with a % of 118.8% so these shortish Key Backs are working for them.

[CURLY]

He is 199cm

He is a key defender (not a third)

His job is to play on Key Forwards

Has had some good games, has been average against some of the better forwards

MacKay and Kennedy both beat him.

He zones off, and gets caught out sometimes

You keep say McKay beat him. He took two marks got a free. Both marks were brilliant kicks.

[skeptic]

Max was rarely beaten

Played for 13 seasons

Played 1.5 seasons with Penny

Played 3 seasons with Goose (injured in 06)

Played as an undersized FB for most years he played, and was rarely beaten

He wasn’t ‘rarely’ beaten - he just tended to win more often then he didn’t
And that’s great. Lloyd toweled him up a few times and Neitz had his measure as did Lynch (which given size is understandable) and in fairness to him, in the early 2000s he played in some shocking teams and was up against it

No one is arguing that he wasn’t an excellent defender but periodically the beat forwards in the comp beat him which is what they say. The point is that he looked a lot better when he had support then when he didn’t.

Not exactly a shocking revelation but it’s an important factor


You know, I noticed a pattern with you BM.

You completely play favourites and ignore things that don’t suit the narrative you’ve created

Recently it’s been Ross who last night was ‘showing leadership and tagging Cripps’ - you ignored the call out to identify what his great role was and repeatedly singled out our terrible mids but left his name off the list repeatedly until there was no place to hide

You’re also suddenly finding that because you hate the 3 small forward narrative that you think Kent and Lonie are harshly maligned and in true contrarion style have jumped onto the whole… it wasn’t Richo, he had a bad list narrative

You find narratives that you like and look for stats and other indicators to illustrate them rather than looking directly at performance. As Sherlock would say, twist the solution to fit the facts rather than twisting the fact to suit the conclusion

[Teflon]

We'd be screwed without Howard. With so many 200cm forwards in the game now, Having a 200cm key defender is crucial

Bang on
One of the best trades the club has done can you imagine how bad we’d have been without him?????
Needs another tall defender to help - Wilkie at 192 Battle 193 tad short to play on most sides who have 2 x 195-200 sized forwards
Power game showed us we are too small with just Howard trying to do it solo

[shanegrambeau]

Are Frawley and Carlisle now officially cooked? Like “burnt to a crisp” and finished like cooked? Like will be chopped in October?

What a shame…we have this huge desert of sand between the young ones and the dinosaurs.

[B.M]

The player we’d be screwed without is Wilkie

Undersized and competes

At least he makes the forward beat him in a contest

[B.M]

Skeptic

That is rubbish

I’ve been very consistent in my thoughts

About small forwards
About Ross
About About Howard

And I am NOT convinced by Ratten - I can only judge coacoaches two ways
Results
What they communicate in the media

To me Ratten rambles

[Teflon]

The player we’d be screwed without is Wilkie

Undersized and competes

At least he makes the forward beat him in a contest

Yes he just monstered Mackay last night at his ankles...
Seriously ...I do wonder sometimes if people actually watch the game....
let’s see how he goes on Buddy and Hawkins next 2 weeks
I’m a Wilkie fan btw - but he’s an intercept defender and we have a couple of those with Highmore etc
We don’t have a Howard replacement
But carry on

[Wayne42]

The player we’d be screwed without is Wilkie

Undersized and competes

At least he makes the forward beat him in a contest

Yes he just monstered Mackay last night at his ankles...
Seriously ...I do wonder sometimes if people actually watch the game....
let’s see how he goes on Buddy and Hawkins next 2 weeks
I’m a Wilkie fan btw - but he’s an intercept defender and we have a couple of those with Highmore etc
We don’t have a Howard replacement
But carry on

Clavarino will need to play and show the brains trust he's worth another year, he's the only tall defender left, Sydney don't need tall defenders and they go alright.

[Teflon]

The player we’d be screwed without is Wilkie

Undersized and competes

At least he makes the forward beat him in a contest

Yes he just monstered Mackay last night at his ankles...
Seriously ...I do wonder sometimes if people actually watch the game....
let’s see how he goes on Buddy and Hawkins next 2 weeks
I’m a Wilkie fan btw - but he’s an intercept defender and we have a couple of those with Highmore etc
We don’t have a Howard replacement
But carry on

Clavarino will need to play and show the brains trust he's worth another year, he's the only tall defender left, Sydney don't need tall defenders and they go alright.

I’m tipping Kent goes down back to sure us up with his foot skills coming out ....

[Wayne42]

The player we’d be screwed without is Wilkie

Undersized and competes

At least he makes the forward beat him in a contest

Yes he just monstered Mackay last night at his ankles...
Seriously ...I do wonder sometimes if people actually watch the game....
let’s see how he goes on Buddy and Hawkins next 2 weeks
I’m a Wilkie fan btw - but he’s an intercept defender and we have a couple of those with Highmore etc
We don’t have a Howard replacement
But carry on

Clavarino will need to play and show the brains trust he's worth another year, he's the only tall defender left, Sydney don't need tall defenders and they go alright.

I’m tipping Kent goes down back to sure us up with his foot skills coming out ....

Don't tell Ratten, he might do it.

[B.M]

Hmm…

MacKay, was it 4 or 5 at HT??

He was looking at a huge bag

Wilkie, desperately undersized kept him to none or one after HT.

Wilkie also flogged Curnow in the first half until David Dench kick a 5 meter pass straight to him to gift him a goal

[Wayne42]

What number was David Dench ?

[CURLY]

Hmm…

MacKay, was it 4 or 5 at HT??

He was looking at a huge bag

Wilkie, desperately undersized kept him to none or one after HT.

Wilkie also flogged Curnow in the first half until David Dench kick a 5 meter pass straight to him to gift him a goal

He had 4 at half time three on Howard one on Wilkie. Took two uncontested marks on Howard on kicks impossible to defend one out.

[B.M]

So are you saying MacKay was on top of Howard until HT or not?