The List

[ace]

The delistings reduced the senior list from 40 to 37 but the addition of Crouch & McKernan have boosted that back to 39.
The same delisting reduced the rookies A list from 4 down to 1 with Wilkie still eligible for one more year.
Alabakis can remain a rookie B for one more year.

The AFL is yet to announce list sizes as it has not got an agreement with the AFLPA.
But the AFL seems to be wanting 38 seniors and 3 rookie A.

That means St Kilda is probably 1 senior player too many and 2 rookies A short already.
Normally the AFL would require a club to take 3 draft picks or rookie upgrades.
The AFL MAY be reduce that to 2.
Even if that is reduced to two St Kilda probably needs to lose 3 more senior players.

The club desperately needs to sell some "assets" to bring in draft picks.

Other clubs are unlikely to help out with Joyce & McKenzie both contracted but seen as list cloggers.
Roberton's contract will probably be too large for other clubs to swallow.

I would expect the club to sell players with value like Dunstan, Webster and Lonie before buying in any new talent.
Parker, Hind, Kent, Phillips maybe available if anyone is interested.

[George27]

Many thanks for that analysis, ace

[fugazi]

Surely the AFL has to declare list numbers before anyone can trade with certainty?

[CQ SAINT]

Wilkie is on the senior list.

[ace]

Wilkie is on the senior list.

Wilkie entered 2020 as a rookie if he has been quietly upgraded it would have been during the season or after season end.
With the prospect of senior lists shrinking it would be foolish to upgrade Wilkie before the end of next season.
There is no restriction on him playing or being paid what he is worth.

[ace]

Surely the AFL has to declare list numbers before anyone can trade with certainty?

You would think so.
That is what any competent management would do.
But the AFLPA has its' own agenda and the AFL management has failed to say "this is what is happening, we manage the game, you play the game."

[CQ SAINT]

Wilkie is on the senior list.

Wilkie entered 2020 as a rookie if he has been quietly upgraded it would have been during the season or after season end.
With the prospect of senior lists shrinking it would be foolish to upgrade Wilkie before the end of next season.
There is no restriction on him playing or being paid what he is worth.

My bad. I thought he was promoted when his standard rookie contract of 2 years was extended to 2021.

[asiu]

this is interesting subject matter

i read somewhere
how a contracted player can be sent to the rookie list
as a method of reducing list size

is that true ?

[asiu]

i found it

you said it Ace

That means 3 more delistings, if contracted must be retaken as rookies.

[Yorkeys]

I'd be interested to know how the AFL can effectively repudiate existing contracts by forcing reduced list numbers. It would seem that all it could do is freeze new contracts until the new lower limit numbers were reached and that implies arbitrary loss of talent. I can see how the AFL could limit TPP and put in place a list reduction program over several years however that would mean an accurate forecast of revenue into the future and we know no one can do that. The fact that trades are happening now suggests to me the AFL is not going to limit list numbers in the near future otherwise for each new player joining at least one existing player would have to leave. The AFL is limited by contract law and the players association which has been pretty solid in 2020. And at least claiming it wants an even comp.

[ace]

Delisting of Parker brings our senior list down to 38.
But if the AFL reduces senior list sizes down 38 we will have to reduce further.
At present we must take a minimum of 3 picks in the draft but this may be reduced to 2.
Waiting for you to tell us Gill - list size, salary cap, how many draft picks.
Time to lead not be a dog wagged by the AFLPA tail.
Ideally this reduction will come from other clubs buying our players or manipulating players onto the rookie list.
Otherwise more delistings to come.

[ace]

Remaing uncontracted players are
Carlisle
Clavarino
Hind
Lonie
Marsh
Phillips
Savage

[SaintPelican66]

Remaing uncontracted players are
Carlisle
Clavarino
Hind
Lonie
Marsh
Phillips
Savage

Alabakis?

[ace]

Remaing uncontracted players are
Carlisle
Clavarino
Hind
Lonie
Marsh
Phillips
Savage

Alabakis?

Yes Alabakis is uncontracted but St Kilda can retain him as a rookie B for another year so he does not impact list size.
It is simply a case of does he and St Kilda want to go another year together.

[asiu]

the boy i take notice of shared that 38
is going to be the agreed # re list size

[SaintPelican66]

Remaing uncontracted players are
Carlisle
Clavarino
Hind
Lonie
Marsh
Phillips
Savage

Alabakis?

Yes Alabakis is uncontracted but St Kilda can retain him as a rookie B for another year so he does not impact list size.
It is simply a case of does he and St Kilda want to go another year together.

I would hold onto Alabakis. He is 211cm and can obviously jump with his basketball history. Give him time to learn the game properly and hone his skills and he will be a weapon in the centre bounces. Imagine him coming at you in a ruck contest. It would be frightening for any normal sized ruckman. At the very least he becomes a backup ruckman when McKernan decided to retire in 2 years time.

[stkfc1]

Alabaskis is a massive unit. Seen him at a local cafe and he's got serious size about him. Needs a few more gym sessions but he's got the frame and he's breathing the upper atmosphere, height wise. If he can jump, then he could be a serious weapon.

[skeptic]

Remaing uncontracted players are
Carlisle
Clavarino
Hind
Lonie
Marsh
Phillips
Savage

Don’t know how many we need to lose but Carlisle and Clavarino seem certainties to stay
I’d like to keep Phillips and Savage too

Marsh should go
It’s looking like we’ll cut Lonie if there’s no suitors and Kent’s contract pbly spells the end for Hind too tough he is substantially better than Kent


Boy our list management prior to last year really was quite appalling wasn’t it
Basically got guys that haven’t and won’t play on long term deals whilst the group with potential are bring forced out

[bangaulegend]

To move forward we need to be cruel to be kind Lonie has been offered a contract & maybe Carslisle the rest would be very nervous . We have too many players already contracted but not really in our best 22 . Mc Kenzie, Dunstan,Webster, Kent & I may have missed some but we can't keep them all so unless we can move on some of our contracted players our list is what it is.

[ace]

The changing of the guard, the following still on list but on the table.
Dunstan taken in 2013 draft
Lonie 2014 taken draft
McKenzie taken in 2014 draft
Roberton taken as delisted free agent end of 2012
Ross taken in 2011 draft
Webster 2011 draft

All have one thing in common.

They were part of the bottom 6 team that WAS St Kilda.

Gradually being replaced by a top 6 team that IS St Kilda.

[cwrcyn]

Our 2021 list may not contain the best 22 ever assembled at St Kilda, but without doubt it will be the best 35 players we've had on list at in a single year.

Assuming Higgins is a done deal and no further senior level players get trade out, the following players could potentially spend most of the year at Sandringham

Savage
Roberton
Webster
Dunstan
Hind
Kent
Sinclair
Lonie
Kent
Geary (sorry Geary fans, father time has caught up)
Mckernan
Phillips
Bytel

I can't recall us ever having this level of depth

[damienc]

Remaing uncontracted players are
Carlisle
Clavarino
Hind
Lonie
Marsh
Phillips
Savage

Don’t know how many we need to lose but Carlisle and Clavarino seem certainties to stay
I’d like to keep Phillips and Savage too

Marsh should go
It’s looking like we’ll cut Lonie if there’s no suitors and Kent’s contract pbly spells the end for Hind too tough he is substantially better than Kent


Boy our list management prior to last year really was quite appalling wasn’t it
Basically got guys that haven’t and won’t play on long term deals whilst the group with potential are bring forced out

Interesting comment you make on Marsh.

Can understand why you are cold on him.

I would venture this opinion on Marsh.

He is a physical player who can impose himself on the game and do damage.

The problem with Marsh, he doesn't do it often enough or consistently.

That's the reason why he can't cement a regular place in the side.

If he could correct those shortcomings he would be a ripper.

[Vortex]

As Scott Morrison would say, "How Good Is St Kilda"!

Nearly all the building blocks are in place. This list now needs luck with injury to have a successful pre season and then bank a big a number of games playing together.

[ace]

Now the nightmare begins.
St Kilda had 40 senior listed players but the AFL is almost certainly going to reduce that size to 38 for 2021.
Then unless the AFL changes the requirement clubs must take 3 draft picks or rookie upgrades.
Either way the senior list needs to be reduced to 35.

But St Kilda has imported Crouch, McKernan & Higgins so 8 players need to be delisted or traded away from the senior list.
Abbott, Austin, Brown, Parker have been culled from the senior list

Remaining uncontracted senior list players are
Carlisle
Clavarino
Hind
Lonie
Marsh
Phillips
Savage

4 of these must be delisted unless up to 2 contracted players can be persuaded to risk the national and rookie drafts to be retaken.
St Kilda would honour existing contracts but other clubs could steal them as bargains.
Hopefully the club will succeed in trading away some players who are happy to go elsewhere.

If 4 uncontracted players are to be delisted then I would think the 3 most likely safe would be Carlisle, Clavarino, Lonie.

Hind could well be saved by Essendon but I doubt Dildo will trade from him unless it is pick 85 he can have him as a delisted free agent.
Marsh, Phillips, Savage are looking unsafe.
Maybe paying out Joyce's contract could save one.