Ok....our real Depth..

[StSteven]

Interesting perspective from Roos. This team is the ONLY threat to us:

Jenny McAsey | May 11, 2009
Article from: The Australian
PAUL Roos played 356 games and has coached another 163 in an AFL career that began 27 years ago but never in all that time has he seen a team so far ahead of the pack as Geelong.

The Swans have now played both the undefeated St Kilda and Geelong this season, and after Saturday's 51-point loss to the Cats at Skilled Stadium, Roos said there is no better team in the competition.

"We played St Kilda in round 1, just as they were starting to get going," Roos said. "But Geelong, in my opinion, are a fair way ahead of anyone else at the moment. I think the gap is as wide as I've seen it between a top team and the next best team.

"The majority of (the Cats) are very good players, and the guys who aren't quite as good play a very strong role. But the bulk of their team, 10 to 12 guys, are top-liners. They are experienced, strong-bodied and have been playing together for a long time.

"It is Geelong and daylight, and that is with all due respect to St Kilda."

Can't wait until Rd14......

[saintsRrising]

The Cats have the runs on the Board for 50 odd games...

We have been only cooking for 6 realy well...and since mid-last season.

In that period in the finals last year the Hawks took us to town.

So Cats are still the team to beat.


We have stepped up no doubt....but whether it is a big enough step we will only find out later in the year.

[StSteven]

So Cats are still the team to beat.


We have stepped up no doubt....but whether it is a big enough step we will only find out later in the year._

Agree. H&A is also not a good measure of finals (Hawks last year). So if we can stay top 2 we have a real chance.

[saintsRrising]

Begley: has not done much....but again if we have a horrid run he is available with mature body and 29 games under his belt.

so yes, while he's definitely a depth player, let's not be counting on him too much.

I had Begley only in the group of to play if we have a horrid injury run.

At present I think it is more likely that he may never play for the Saints.


He is IMO way below the group of Maguire, Raph, Armo, Max, King, Dempster who will all most likely push hard for senior games this year...Armitage who must be very close to getting game.



If I had to guess about Begley it would be that Lyon was very keen to improve our midfield this year and wanted some players to play off HB to free up Gram and Sam Fisher....and as insurance if Dempster hada set-back.

Ray has been sensational.. and Geary has been more than ok.....freeing up Gram.

Meanwhile CJ has improved and has been playing a lot of time as a midfielder....freeing up Baker to play purely as a backman.

Zac has been value too allowing Sam and Gilbert to play flank rather than key position.


All of this means that Begley is a long way off senior selection....and others like Miles will probably pass him too.


I am ceratainly not knocking picking up Begley...as one can understand why...and he was very cheap. But players pushing up may squeeze him out.

[saintsRrising]

So Cats are still the team to beat.


We have stepped up no doubt....but whether it is a big enough step we will only find out later in the year._

Agree. H&A is also not a good measure of finals (Hawks last year). So if we can stay top 2 we have a real chance.

Compared to last year...saints have stepped up...but the Hawks and Dogs have declined.


PA have improved (and losta lot of narrow games last year)...but are still off the pace.

Whether the Hawks can build momentum for alte season surge remains to be sean...but they stil have ample time.

Dogs will at best I think recapture last years form...but we area rung above that at present.



For the Cats I think we need every edge we can get still...and so IMO we need another player or two such as Max in addition to King to force their way into the 22 based on good form (and not reputation).

[bergholt]

I am ceratainly not knocking picking up Begley...as one can understand why...and he was very cheap. But players pushing up may squeeze him out.

agreed. good post.

[Quixote]

The above article from The Australian is quite good.

What caught my eye was Bartel played from a HBF - even tho Ablett was out.

Geelong's midfield depth really is there primary strength, and was what smacked us in the first final last year.

They have 10 - 12 very good players who can run through there - all hard bodies and skillful.

We should be planning for this now.

Our midfield and depth:


Hayes
Ball
Dal
Monty
Jones
Goddard
McQualter
Gram

Depth:

Ray
Geary
Eddy
Baker


Hmm, actually not as bad as I thought! The additions of Baker and Ray certainly help. And the form of Geary, the Jonestown boy and McQualter also.

Depth not in side:

Armo
Raph Clarke?
Steven
L Fisher?
Dempster?
Begley
Heyne


Not a heap of strength waiting on the midfield outer.

Suffice to say, my greatest hope this year is that our midfield stays injury free!!

[DWOODROW]

[b]Armitage who must be very close to getting game. [/b]

iF HE WAS CLOSE THEN SURELY HE WOULD BE NAMED IN THE BEST PLAYERS EVERY WEEK AND NOT GET BAGGED FOR DOING NOTHING IN THE sANDY GAMES ON HERE.sTUPID CAPS LOCK. If he was genuinely pushing for a call up then why are there so many inconsistent reviews and reports about him. Surely someone who goes to the games would be able to give a true and accurate account of how he is playing. I don't get to watch the games being in the north but will he break in this year in anyones opinion. HONESTLY.

[Quixote]

^^^ Even one midfield injury in the current squad and we are going to Need him to break through.

Before the season, RL stated that Armo was on track to play 18+ games this year. And going by pre-season observations, all things were pointing to that being correct.

He then did a hammy, and is still on the way back from this setback.

[saintsRrising]

Well the big Mac filled in capably tonight.


Looked ok...and we know he will get better

It is great to know that we have a more than handy back up for Gardi and King.


Drop Schneider??? er no.
Now that he is getting match fit we are really starting to see the real Schneider.

[InkerSaint]

I stand by what I have said about Schneider. I think he has a fair bit of talent but has low productivity: because he has a poor work ethic and/or a chronic injury problem which prevents him from giving more than about 70%. Like the Swans, I would consider a trade of both him and a hard-working GOP for a second round draft pick to be a reasonable deal.

I hope at the very least you feel a little silly about this assessment of Schneider, given last night's performance.

Not looking ordinary at all, and working beautifully with Milney.

If anything, Kosi is not attracting enough of the ball, but perhaps working nicely as a foil... our little forward quartet is plenty potent.

[Thinline]

I know, it's just that I'm finding that toysRus's endless pontificating is getting my goat a little bit.

Have you the slighest idea how puerile, childish and silly you (and others I grant you) look when mocking other peoples nicknames??

Its kindergarten sandpit stuff and, in my eyes anyway, considerably devalues anything else you have to say, no matter how mature and well thought-out it is

Well, you are one of the moderators, so ban me if you don't like it.

However, it would be the height of hypocrisy to do so while posters like Teflon continue to be tolerated. I haven't noticed you having a go at him like you just did with me.

That said, it probably isn't fair of me to have a go at saintsRrising as he is mostly one of the more gentlemanly posters on here.

However, sRr, enough with the online self-congratulation already!! Even if you were completely right about everything re GT, Lyon, etc. (and I still reckon you have a growing case to answer in terms of your past harping on about how our list was "ruined"), it is totally ungracious to trumpet on about how "I was right, you were wrong, told you so, etc.".

We must expect a bitter and twisted (and, I suspect, frequently intoxicated) poster such as Teflon to go on like this, but you should be able to do a bit better.

You'll never catch Teflon. Way too slippery.

Tish boom

Groan...

[saintsRrising]

[(and I still reckon you have a growing case to answer in terms of your past harping on about how our list was "ruined"), .

MB...what I have stated many times..including before GT left was that our list was going backwards under his "leadership". The trend was in decline.

However at no stage did I say that it was "ruined'..ie that it was completely bad. Indeed I have stated many times that the list that Lyon inherited was quite good by AFL standards..but with significant flaws. ie an aging midfield...no true rucks, lack of pace....not enough depth....

Leigh Matthews once stated that the first thing a coach needs to do is build a good list.

So GT was runing it...but it was not ruined.


Now I shudder to think how good our list would now be if we had not had those years of bungled list management and terrible trades.


This year IMO clearly demonstrates starkly the benefit of not having GT:

* depth from rookies and trades so that we have not misseda beat with injuries.

* a large number of traded players who are contributing well for us. GT dida trucload of trades including use of first round picks....and Gram is about the only benefit we gained from that prodigous expense.


How you cannot comprehend how the quality of our list is now improving (despite no early draft picks) whereas under GT (if you look at the period after he became head coach) was declining is beyond me.

But then again considering that you do not rate players such as Schneider is possibly the root of this.......I mean Rix, McGough, Ackland and the like were how GT was "building" the Saints....

[plugger66]

[(and I still reckon you have a growing case to answer in terms of your past harping on about how our list was "ruined"), .

MB...what I have stated many times..including before GT left was that our list was going backwards under his "leadership". The trend was in decline.

However at no stage did I say that it was "ruined'..ie that it was completely bad. Indeed I have stated may times that the list that Lyon inherited was quite good by AFL standards..but with significant flaws.

Leigh Matthews once stated that the first thing a coach needs to do is builda good list.

So GT was runing it...but it was not ruined.


Now I shudder to think how good our list would now be if we had not had those years of bungled list management and terrible trades.


This year IMO clearly demonstrates starkly the benefit of not having GT:

* depth from rookies and trades so that we have not misseda beat with injuries.

* a large number of traded players who are contributing well for us. GT dida trucload of trades including use of first round picks....and Gram is about the only benefit we gained from that prodigous expense.


How you cannot comprehend how the quality of our list is now improving (despite no early draft picks) whereas under GT (if you look at the period after he became head coach) was declining is beyond me.

But then again considering that you do not rate players such as Schneider is possibly the root of this.......I mean Rix, McGough, Ackland and the like were how GT was "building" the Saints....

Boring. Picking players that are no good is like using stats to back up your arguement.

[saintsRrising]

Boring. Picking players that are no good is like using stats to back up your arguement.

Maybe if you actually put some facts up for a change? maybe you can make your VERY long list of great GT trades made after he became coach?

Personally I am looking at the trades as a totality.

GT's trades that were ok. Gram....the only winner.

Hall for two picks that got Dal...worked out ok...but is not a win as we did not gain greater value than we gave.

After these two there is then a Huge list of sorry and overpriced trades.

Compare this to Lyon....Birrs is about the only one which did not work out (apart from Charlie who was free and most likely needed to get King by relieving the Ctas of salary cap pressures))....and that was effectively Gardi and he for pick 43...so we are WAY in front.

Possibly also M Clarke..but that was a PSD pick clearly as a back up ruck.

Then there is all the wins for very cheap prices..Schneider, Dempster, M Gardiner, King, Ray, Zac...

Looking at the ledger I would see Lyon well in the black. Looking at the GT ledger I see alot of red ink.

So Lyon is BORING...but he is bloody good too.

[plugger66]

Boring. Picking players that are no good is like using stats to back up your arguement.

Maybe if you afctualy put some facts up for a change?

GT's trades that weree ok. Gram....the only winner.

Hall for two picks that got Dal...worked out ok...but is nota win as we did not gain greater value than we gave.

After these two there is thina HUGe list of sorry and overpriced trades.

Compare this to Lyon....Birrs is about the only one which did nort work out 9apart from Charlie who was free and most likely needed to get king)....and that was effectively Gardi and he for pick 43...so we are WAY in front.
Possibly ass M Clarke..but that wasa PSD pick clraly asa back up ruck.

Then there is all the wins for bery cheap prices..Schneider, Dempster, M Gardiner, King, Ray, Zac...

So Lyon is BORING...but he is bloody good too.

RL isnt boring but you going on about GT wrecking the list is very boring. We are winning so lets enjoy it and forget about GT wrecking the list.

[stinger]

[

Hall for two picks that got Dal...worked out ok...but is nota win as we did not gain greater value than we gave.

your joking of course.......you are ,aren't you????....boofhead is finished....dal could win the brownlow and is just coming into his prime......

[saintsRrising]

RL isnt boring but you going on about GT wrecking the list is very boring. We are winning so lets enjoy it and forget about GT wrecking the list.

Well I was going on how good we were...then MB misquoted what I had posted in the past. So I pointed out his error.

Why don't you complain about his boring GT past posts?

Answer because he like you thinks GT did a good job, whereas I do not.

[saintsRrising]

[

Hall for two picks that got Dal...worked out ok...but is nota win as we did not gain greater value than we gave.

your joking of course.......you are ,aren't you????....boofhead is finished....dal could win the brownlow and is just coming into his prime......

That Hall is now at the end of his career is not relevant. All players come to an end eventually. He had an outstanding career at the Swans.

Hall has been a champion player...Dal looks like he will become one this year.