will G-Train come up for round 1?

[bigcarl]

if he doesn't i reckon we could play allen or bj (if he's ready) as the third tall forward.

this would maintain the intimidating tall foward structure we hope will be too much for our opponents to handle this season. structure is very important to a forward line and too much was left to too few last season.

obviously it would be better to have the big G-Locomotive out there.

believe me, our opponents feel threatened about having to cover each of the 3 Divas and will struggle to hold them if we move it down there quickly and directly.

some might put their best tall defenders on kosi, freeing up riewoldt and fraser to wreak absolute havoc. and if their best defender goes on riewoldt or fraser then kosi's ability to take big pack marks will come into play.

nice to have options if fraser doesn't come up, though.

this is only IMHO but

with gehrig

hf: gardiner, riewoldt, rotation (dal santo, ball, montagna, schneider, maybe x)
f: milne, kosi, gehrig


without gehrig

hf: gardiner, riewoldt, rotation (dal santo, ball, montagna, schneider, maybe x)
f: milne, kosi, allen or bj


in other words, tall forward out/tall forward in

[Unforgiven]

I think he will. If not I don't think Allen or BJ would play as a 3rd tall. They would simply go with Charlie, Roo and Kosi. If you want another tall forward then they can rest Gardi up there while King rucks.

[bigcarl]

so long as we don't go back to "kick-it-to-roo". many reliable and consistent avenues to goal, etc, etc

[saintsRrising]

BJ has slimmed down this year...

With his precise long kicking he will be setting up play...and will not be a forward marking target which would be a great waste of his greatest assets.

[bigcarl]

BJ has slimmed down this year...

With his precise long kicking he will be setting up play...and will not be a forward marking target which would be a great waste of his greatest assets.

what about allen then? too raw?

i just think it is in our interests to maintain the 3 tall forward structure that seems to have been put into place during the pre-season and has worked okay so far.

a lot of it is aimed to making sure that riewoldt is not double-teamed every week and that we aren't relying on him to kick us a winning score.

many reliable and consistent aveunues to goal, etc, etc.

[bigcarl]

If you want another tall forward then they can rest Gardi up there while King rucks.

can he kick goals? i'm all for it if he can

[midas_touch]

I think he will. If not I don't think Allen or BJ would play as a 3rd tall. They would simply go with Charlie, Roo and Kosi. If you want another tall forward then they can rest Gardi up there while King rucks.

Agree with this tall forward structure if Fraser cant play round 1. Charlie Gardiner can lead up and play Riewoldt's role, allowing Riewoldt to roam inside the forward 50.

[Huzzad]

If you want another tall forward then they can rest Gardi up there while King rucks.

can he kick goals? i'm all for it if he can

He kicked some pretty solid goals for the eagles...

[bigcarl]

If you want another tall forward then they can rest Gardi up there while King rucks.

can he kick goals? i'm all for it if he can

He kicked some pretty solid goals for the eagles...

looks like we have a winner then. who will play second ruck if gardiner plays forward? perhaps blake can fill in.

[plugger66]

If you want another tall forward then they can rest Gardi up there while King rucks.

can he kick goals? i'm all for it if he can

He kicked some pretty solid goals for the eagles...

looks like we have a winner then. who will play second ruck if gardiner plays forward? perhaps blake can fill in.

Gardiner is finished as a forward. To slow and not great overhead. Will only play in the ruck and on the bench. Allen may be a chance but my feeling is that he is not quite ready. If G doesnt play there will be no more talls put in the side. It just makes Charlie a certainty to play.

[bigcarl]

this is only IMHO but

with gehrig

hf: gardiner, riewoldt, rotation (dal santo, ball, montagna, schneider, maybe x)
f: milne, kosi, gehrig


without gehrig

hf: gardiner, riewoldt, rotation (dal santo, ball, montagna, schneider, maybe x)
f: milne, kosi, allen or bj


in other words, tall forward out/tall forward in

this would maintain the intimidating tall forward structure that has the competiton running scared.

and plugger, glad to see that you're still around. was worried that you might be taking a holiday and where would we be without your mail on breaking news?

[Unforgiven]

Gardi will be fine and snag a few goals and hush you doubters. He might not be a leading forward, but with our forward set up, unless they put a ruckman on him in defence, he will outsize anyone they put against him, this was highlighted against essendon when he rag-dolled some essendon kid with a little bump and took a simple mark 20m out from goal.

[saintsRrising]

BJ has slimmed down this year...

With his precise long kicking he will be setting up play...and will not be a forward marking target which would be a great waste of his greatest assets.

what about allen then? too raw?

i just think it is in our interests to maintain the 3 tall forward structure that seems to have been put into place during the pre-season and has worked okay so far.

a lot of it is aimed to making sure that riewoldt is not double-teamed every week and that we aren't relying on him to kick us a winning score.

many reliable and consistent aveunues to goal, etc, etc.

As long as your 22 is reasonably balanced I think you should play the "best" player.

With marking options in Kosi and Roo..plus Gardi.....I would not get fixated on having to have 3 tall marking options.

3 tall marking options is a lot of height and for my mind you have to have 3 good players to make it work or the run the risk of the opposition getting too much rebound out of defence.


On allen I like what I see a lot. I think in time that he will most probabluy make an excellent key forward for us.

But just right here and now he would appear too raw....or perhaps more correctly that there are good options to play right now.

So assuming GTrain is out I would rather pick say BJ, Fiora or Armitage ..or even Geary or CJ....than Allen in the 22 even though their roles are different.


Plus as others have mentioned Gardi and King can go forward at times.

[bigcarl]

I would not get fixated on having to have 3 tall marking options.

imo 3 tall marking options forward (along with quick and direct delivery) is going to be our "point of difference" this year and will lift us from also rans to having a crack at the premiership.

if gehrig does not play in round 1 we'll be going in with only two, allowing oppositions the chance to once again swamp riewoldt, something we've seen so often.

just out of interest srr, how would your forward set-up look should fraser not play in round 1 and would it convert opportunities into cold, hard goals?

[saintsRrising]

3 big forwards is not new.....

I remember one game where the FF line was Lockett, Loewe and Mark Scott...all big forwards...


It is no guarantee of success.


But yes it gets back to opinions.....

For me there are better options than Allen even if they are not tall.

[saintsRrising]

just out of interest srr, how would your forward set-up look should fraser not play in round 1 and would it convert opportunities into cold, hard goals?

Charlie Roo Rotating Mid

Milne Kosi X/Fiora/Jones (and rotating mids as well)


In many of the NAB games King or Gardiner would run forward at times to space on the HFF to provide amrking option.

and would it convert opportunities into cold, hard goals?

Well we can only hope...but by havinga better 22 there should in theory be more scoring opportunities.

X/Jones and Fiora would all keep the ball in and exert more forward pressure than Allen.

[Armoooo]

If you want another tall forward then they can rest Gardi up there while King rucks.

can he kick goals? i'm all for it if he can

He kicked some pretty solid goals for the eagles...

looks like we have a winner then. who will play second ruck if gardiner plays forward? perhaps blake can fill in.

Gardiner is finished as a forward. To slow and not great overhead. Will only play in the ruck and on the bench. Allen may be a chance but my feeling is that he is not quite ready. If G doesnt play there will be no more talls put in the side. It just makes Charlie a certainty to play.

I agree with you for a change, Gardiner can not be put in a forward line this year, he is useless up there...

With Gehrig

C.Gardiner Roo Schneider
Gehrig Kosi Milne With the likes of Harvey, Xavier, Ball, Dal etc. rotating though the midfield and forward flank with Schneider....

Without Gehrig
C.Gardiner Roo Schneider/ Dal/ Ball/ Harvey etc.
--------Milne Kosi----------
With an extra midfielder to come in Gehrig's place... Sydney don't have the best defense nowadays and they would have more than enough trouble keeping that lineup quiet. However their midfield is still quite strong and underrated so it would be very helpful to get another man in there... Hopefully Sydney will then play with a loose man, for Schneider to keep tabs on Kenelly so they are forced to play Mattner loose, his kicking is very sus and we would rather have him bring it out of the backline then Tadgh....

[bigcarl]

3 big forwards is not new. I remember one game where the FF line was Lockett, Loewe and Mark Scott ... all big forwards.

i thought mark scott would have been gone by the time loewe made his debut. i thought the arrival of lockett was the death knell for him. ah, the ravages of time.

if it did indeed happen then loewe and lockett would have been very young, probably still in their teens, and relying on delivery from one of the worst teams in our history, not surrounded by the class we have today.

[bigcarl]

HF: Charlie, Roo, Rotating Mid
F: Milne, Kosi, X/Fiora/Jones

that might work and wouldn't be the worst i guess.

i'd probably ease bj back into it by playing him in a pocket in gehrig's absence rather than x/fiora/jones.

i like cj as a player, but i'm not convinced he's a natural forward in terms of goals-on-the-board. same goes for xavier and fiora. they don't kick enough goals for mine (or haven't thus far). might be wrong about x-man though.

one thing that we do agree wholeheartedly on, imo, is that this season we must put a score on the board, something we failed to do in 2007

[saintdooley]

fraser wont play rd 1
i think we will have kosi FF

[avid]

Fingers crossed for Allen, but I don't think he's ready for serious seniors just yet.
If we want to stretch them in the air, I wouldn't mind seeing Fiora rotated down forward. He can take an awesome mark. And when he thinks about it, he can also put his body in too. (or maybe when he doesn't think about it.)

God Mark Scott was a beautiful kick. As straight and long as I've ever seen. Just not quite the intimidating presence of Lockett + Loewe!

[saintsRrising]

3 big forwards is not new. I remember one game where the FF line was Lockett, Loewe and Mark Scott ... all big forwards.

i thought mark scott would have been gone by the time loewe made his debut. i thought the arrival of lockett was the death knell for him. ah, the ravages of time.

if it did indeed happen then loewe and lockett would have been very young, probably still in their teens, and relying on delivery from one of the worst teams in our history, not surrounded by the class we have today.

No you might be right..may have been Jacko..

Anyway it was at Princes Park and there were three big forwards across the FF line...irrespective of who they were...and that was just the FF line.

There onviously have been various occassions when there have been 3 out of 6 talls in the forward line.

Many years ago you had your FP asa ruckmen and rover in the other....with another ruckmaen in the other.

Now that is ok when you have one lumbering ruck on another. But when you havea more modern nimble backmen you can get exposed.

If you want to play 3 talls (as in 193+players in todays game) in the forward line for the majority of the game in my view they need to all good players.

With modern rebound a cumbersome player can be used by the opposition to rebound off and get numbers against our other forwards.


Now Allen has a good chance of becominga good forward, but I am not sure he is ready yet and particularly when as I mentioned I think we have good depth and some excellent other options.

[bigcarl]

Anyway it was at Princes Park and there were three big forwards across the FF line...irrespective of who they were...and that was just the FF line.

yeah i think i remember that game. would have been much later than scott ... late 80s or early 90s ... and it was lockett, loewe and a big lumbering ruckman whose name escapes me.

predictably it was a disaster because the ball didn't get down there. also princess park wasn't one of lockett's happiest hunting grounds.

apart from the day lockett absolutely smashed silvagni at moorabbin, SOS probably had the best record of any full back against the big champion.

SOS used to be like an octopus with arms all over him and jeez did the umpires used to love him and hate lockett. the free kick invariably would go to SOS and against plugger.

also in those days carlton had it all over us in class all around the ground. now it has turned around a bit

[bigcarl]

so plugger, what is the mail on G?

[meher baba]

I don't reckon that Allen is ready for AFL yet, so he wouldn't fit into my equation at all.

Even if Gehrig is fit, I would be very surprised if Lyon chose to go with the 3 talls playing permanently up front approach that some seem to want on here. It doesn't seem to gel with Lyon's preferred style of play.

As I see it, there isn't room in the side for all of Gehrig, Kosi, M Gardiner and C Gardiner. If M Gardiner plays, then one of Gehrig and C Gardiner misses out: probably Gehrig, for the reason that he can't do much outside the forward 50. If M Gardiner doesn't play, then Kosi plays as second ruckman (perhaps with some help from Blake) and Gehrig is the FF.

To me, Michael Gardiner is a first ruckman who is now too old and slow to be much use for anything else. King can play as a first ruckman, or as a second ruckman who helps out down back.

Therefore, M Gardiner is most useful IMHO when we need to use King to strengthen our backline on a part-time basis. Which is definitely the case ATM and this is why, if Gehrig is out (as seems likely) I would play M Gardiner against the Swans.