Should the league expand to 18 teams?

[bigcarl]

personally i'm against it in a big way because it will mean st kilda has less chance of winning a premiership.

I've no problem with the afl expanding into "growth areas". I just think that 16 teams is more than enough.

the teams for the gold coast and western sydney should be relocated melbourne clubs (such as the kangaroos) who cannot survive financially in a market place that is not supporting them.

mods, any chance of a poll on this very important issue?

[Enrico_Misso]

Agree BigCarl, this deserves it's own thread.
It is an issue that we need to fight against.
And I would have expected our Board would be representing us in that fight.

As per my comments in the AGM thread ...

I think that expanding the competition to 18 clubs is a HUGE decision.
And one where the Board needs to represent the views of the members.

Do we really want 18 teams ?
An even more hopelessly compromised draw ?
Further dilution of our chances of winning Premierships
Further dilution of the standards
Biaised treatments to "help" the new clubs get up and running
(which means further impositions/obstacles for us)
Further competition for limited sponsorship dollars
More travelling.

I would venture to guess that the VAST majority of our supporters would be TOTALLY against this.
The Board should be representing us on this.
Cowering behind the "but if we stand up to them they might make life tough for us" defence is cowardly, and the long term consequences of rolling over and agreeing to two extra "favoured" new teams is probably more negative than standing up to Dimwit & Coy now.

My message to Westaway is
- 1) Canvass our views
- 2) Listen to us
- 3) Then represent us

[nicola69]

I'm dead against it.

Finey's brilliant monologue on the subject broadcast on SEN a few weeks ago summed it all up. I'm sure forum members who haven't heard or read it can lay their eyes on it somewhere - presumeably SEN has a www site.

The western Sydney thing especially is a completely stupid idea - well worthy of Demetriou who is a complete moron who would put many listed companies into bankruptcy if he were in charge of them. He is a lucky fool who can smoke cuban cigars and drink brandy on the back of the record TV rights deals that are so easily struck up at the moment. He's got no talent as a CEO, just a big ego and a bigger wallet.

Sainters can sit here and think, well it won't be us - one of the sides being relocated / raped and then folded as a result of the changes. But don't bet on it. If you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (a bad season or two on the field accompanied by a couple of bad financial losses and a drop in membership as can happen if you're not in the 8) and you're in their sights.

Support the other Vic clubs, especially NM and Footscray, and look for their support for us too on this issue.

If this were happening back in the 80's when the Saints nearly went to the wall and collected 6 wooden spoons in the decade, it would have been us sacrificed for the stupid western Sydney idea.

Vic clubs must stick together, otherwise the history and guts of the game will be irreparabley damaged. And then the baby will be thrown out with the bath water. AFL won't be the prestige comp it is now. It'll become like gaelic football: an amateur comp with only niche interest .

[bigcarl]

Demetriou is a lucky fool who can smoke cuban cigars and drink brandy on the back of the record TV rights deals that are so easily struck up at the moment. He's got no talent as a CEO, just a big ego and a bigger wallet.

nice sledge.

mods, any chance of a poll on this important issue.

[bigcarl]

Enrico_Misso wrote:
The Board should be representing us on this ...
(but is) cowering behind the "but if we stand up to them they might make life tough for us"

nothing wrong with the board taking a principled stand on this and saying "we've put it to our members and they don't want it" if that is what the response is.

that would let them off the hook with the AFL.

imo the majority of football fans wouldn't go for it because it means less chance of their club winning a flag and if the idea was put to a vote of members (rather than clubs) it would be railroaded into obscurity where it belongs.

i blame the kangaroos for the whole sorry fiasco. they cannot survive financially in the over-crowded melbourne market place and should have taken the gold coast option when it was on the table.

imo if you can't pay, you can't play and if st kilda was in the same boat as the kangaroos i'd be voting to relocate and survive rather than stay and die.

mods, how about a poll on this very important issue? I don't know how to set one up, otherwise i'd do it myself.

[brown-coat]

I want a team in western sydney because anyone living sydney has to experience the horrible shitness of endless rugby league. We have to destroy rugby league. It is a disgrace to the concept of sport. They jump ON THE GROUND to score. Jump on the ground...have you ever heard of something so skilless and stupid?

But i don't want any Melbourne teams to relocate.

[bigcarl]

I want a team in western sydney because anyone living sydney has to experience the horrible shitness of endless rugby league ... but i don't want any Melbourne teams to relocate.

so you'd support 18 teams even though it will make it harder for st kilda to win a premiership? fair enough, it's a free world.

i'd just like a poll on it to be able to better judge the mood of st kilda fans on this one. i'm very much against it, but i'd go with the majority.

[St.Kenny]

Definately an issue the AFL should be more democratic about in my view.

[No1_Saint]

I think in theory it sounds good, but it would have to be managed carefully. The last thing anyone wants is a financial basket case that needs to be propped up AKA Sydney style.

Ideally you would have groups in place with existing infrastructure such as a training base, supporters and business connections that would need only support to lift it up to AFL levels of standard.

If they manufacture a club out of nothing then when the inevitable decline in on field performanc arrives, they will not have a large enough group of core supporters to see them through.

This is the main strength of Melbourne based teams...core groups of loyal supporters who are there no matter what. It is history and tradition that keeps supporters in Melbourne going season after season with little or no success. What happens to manufactured clubs when they don't win games? Look at Melbourne Storm, reasonable crowds in NRL circles when winning, but they plummet when they have an off season.

Thought I'd share...IMHO of course.

[bigcarl]

not a lot of passion being shown here. eight votes in total.

perhaps people genuinely don't care

[johnpeterbudgefanclub]

I do bigcarl....

I voted for a lesser amount of teams in the comp. Back to 14 for mine. I honestly believe that in time that WB and the Pauperoos will struggle in their own right. Melbourne not far behind. Maybe sell off a few Range Rovers and Daimlers and they will be ok. At least u guys get behind your team in good and bad times. Melbourne r the worst. U watch them this year drop like flies.

Ah well plenty of sobbing to be done on their tartan rugs whilst eating brie and sipping Lan Choo tea.

[nicola69]

Demetriou is a lucky fool who can smoke cuban cigars and drink brandy on the back of the record TV rights deals that are so easily struck up at the moment. He's got no talent as a CEO, just a big ego and a bigger wallet.

nice sledge.

mods, any chance of a poll on this important issue.

thanks bigcarl . And I voted.

[Thomas]

12 teams, and they all play each other twice.

[Enrico_Misso]

Need a sample of at least 40 (and random) to have statistical significance.

But if this trend keeps up ...

89% of Saintsational members reject Westaway's proposal to support an 18 team competition.

He would do well to listen to his members if he wants long term tenure.

[bigcarl]

Need a sample of at least 40 (and random) to have statistical significance.

But if this trend keeps up ...

89% of Saintsational members reject Westaway's proposal to support an 18 team competition.

He would do well to listen to his members if he wants long term tenure.

i have faith that he'll listen to the membership and in fact will have to if confronted with stark figures like these.

[ace]

Why not just send Demetriou to West Sydney permanently, then the AFL could save 1.4 million.

[bigcarl]

300 views, 32 votes. must be a few who are undecided

[riccardo]

We need less teams, its obvious the competition cannpt support 16 by the number of clubs using the CBF right now.

Should merge 4 teams into 2 (North, Melbourne, Bulldogs on the chopping block, for mine) and have a 14 team comp, scrap the PS Cup and have them play eachother twice.

[bigcarl]

40 odd votes ... as enrico said not a big enough sample to have much weight statistically.

but say the trend from this small sample is truly indicative of how the football community thinks and 85 per cent of fans believe 18 teams is a lousy idea.

would be the crime of the century if the afl were to foist this massively unpopular scheme on a football public which quite clearly hated the plan.

the worrying thing is the afl is likely to get away with it if the clubs don't represent their members on it.

[Ralphy]

im for it,

and add 2 more rounds of the season so make it 24 rounds

[bigcarl]

im for it,

and add 2 more rounds of the season so make it 24 rounds

damn. it is down to 81 per cent against. oh well, we live in a democracy and i'll go with the majority

[bigcarl]

would be the crime of the century if the afl were to foist this massively unpopular scheme on a football public which quite clearly hated the plan.

[riccardo]

would be the crime of the century if the afl were to foist this massively unpopular scheme on a football public which quite clearly hated the plan.

Just on that point, I'm slightly too young to remember, but what was the feeling back in '87 and before when the Bears and Eagles came in? Was it about the same, or were people OK with it?

By the time I can remember Freo and Port coming in (and vaguely Adelaide), it was too late, the proverbial floodgates were open.

[bigcarl]

would be the crime of the century if the afl were to foist this massively unpopular scheme on a football public which quite clearly hated the plan.

Just on that point, I'm slightly too young to remember, but what was the feeling back in '87 and before when the Bears and Eagles came in? Was it about the same, or were people OK with it?

By the time I can remember Freo and Port coming in (and vaguely Adelaide), it was too late, the proverbial floodgates were open.

that one was sort of snuck under the carpet too.

the public didn't want it, but there was an acceptance that the game had to go national.

the struggling melbourne clubs all went for it because there was a buck in it for them and it saved some of them from going to the wall in the short term.

[bigcarl]

more than 500 views but only 50 votes. perhaps i have overestimated the depth of feeling on this issue and people just do not care.

the "no to 18 teams" vote is now down to 80 per cent.