Those Saints under the pump in 2008

[saintsRrising]

Well it is a new season...and while every player is only as good as their last game the 2008 season will see a number of players who MUST deliver more than they did in 2007 to be retained at the end of 2008.

For mine the depth at the Saints has improved (you can still argue about whether we have enoughtalent at the top, but our middle tier of players on our total list seems to have improved) and for players who were just in the team in 2007 or one its fringe a higher standead will be expected and demanded by the Saints coaches in 2008.


And while any player can improve....who are the ones that NEED to lift a cog to play on beyond 2008?????


Armitage, David Should be a player…but evidently his attitude and commitment to training was not what it should have been. The guy has the talent….but does he have the application??? Lets hope that he does not become another Beetham. Has only had the one year and so is ceratainly not panic stations yet....but he does need to apply himself more.

Birss, Shane Was a valuable contributor in 2007, but had some flaws. If the younguns of Geary and Armo emerge it may place his future under a cloud. He needs to improve a little on his 2007 form to be 100% safe though I fully expect him to be there in 2009.

Blake, Jason Gaining King (as it will allow Kosi to play the roaming utilty) and Dempster (tallish tagging optionas well as utility roles) may well squeeze Blake out of the 22. He has many qualities such as endurance and the ability to find space, but still has poor skills and decision making. In 2007 he had some truly good games. He needs to play at that level week in week out though and not occassionally to survive.

Ferguson, Matthew Seems to have been very lucky to have retained his spot.

Gardiner, Charlie Thown a life line after a good year in the VFL for the Cats but could not displace Johhno. Past form would have him as a capable but flawed medium forward. The Saints do not currently have a medium forward and so there is an opportunity for him to shine. Opportunity may depend on how the Siants structure up. Playing all of Kosi, Gtrain and Roo forward could for example see Ross preferrings smalls of X, Scneider and Milne to another marking target.

Gardiner, Michael S. Must show that he can play in 2008 after only managing half a VFL game in 2007.

Gwilt, James After stellar debut Gwilt has struggled. RL used him as a capable fill in key defender when the Saints were injury hit down back in 2007, but ofer all he did not show that he could perform in this role week in week out.. However his lack of height would suggest not much of a future in key defensive positions.

Howard, Brad Was always expected to take time…but in 2007 he showed very little. After a year in the sysem will need to start show that he COULD be a player.Does not actually have to play senior footy in 2008 but MUST show that he looks cpabale of doing it in future years.

Jones, Clinton Given another year. Has a number of plusses but also some glaring flaws. Schneider may make it a lot harder for him to play in 2008.

Rix, Michael Having gained King and with McEvoy and Van Reehan in the system Rix will need to lift a cog to be retained. If M Gardiner can actually play in 2008 Rix's spot would seem to be terminal. In his favour he is cheap....but if you are never likely to play then there is no place on the list irrespective of what your remuneration is.

[Eastern]

I would like to think that EVERY player on our list feels the need to perform !!

[Saints94]

Great read. Blake's future isn't under any cloud he is not a ruckman he just gives a good contest. he will be used mostly down back or be used as a tagger or even get put up into the forward line

As for Ferguson he needs to perform or he's out the door Im surprised he's still on our list after how long..... what 4 years he looked o.k against Richmond in the last round but that was it he also needs to get a good pre-season under his belt

all the best to him

[Otiman]

Andrew McQualter.

Rix is our insurance policy. Wouldn't want to be stuck playing McEvoy and Van Rheenen (or Blake) in the ruck at any stage if the rest of our injury prone ruckmen go down.

[Saints94]

I thought the reason we retained him was

contract reasons but all the best to him as well

[Saints94]

Raph Clarke.

[Sobraz]

Probably get burned for this, but it is a massive year for Max.. Didnt get going last year and is getting older, it will be interesting to see how he comes up this year.. Hopefully Goose and Chips can take over the mantle as the leaders of the backline, so he will get a lesser player whom he should carve up.. it is a big year for him and could lead to a few more seasons, or it may be his last... time will tell...

[saintsRrising]

Andrew McQualter.

Rix is our insurance policy. Wouldn't want to be stuck playing McEvoy and Van Rheenen (or Blake) in the ruck at any stage if the rest of our injury prone ruckmen go down.

I did not include any of the Rookies...only senior list players.

By definition and status I think all rookies are under the pump....


With Rix I agree...for 2008...but I am talking of 2009. By the end of 2008 we will know the injury status of King and M Gardiner.....and VR will have been promoted or not.

McEvoy will bea year older and in 2009 should at least be capable of being the back up rucman on our list.

If King amd M Gardiner crash and burn then Rix will quite possibly be reatianed. If one of them make it then his place would be in question and if both had serviceable 2008 he would be gone as McEvoy would be prefferd for any back up games to get some experience into him

[Saints94]

MAX! Sobraz how many times did Max have a setback with

soft tissue injuries Max won't be replaced until he retires

[Zed]

Harvey - how much longer can this guy stay on our list .. bout time he showed something

... just kidding .. I'm one of his biggest fans. He can stay on the list as long as he likes !

[Saints94]

Harvey - how much longer can this guy stay on our list .. bout time he showed something

... just kidding .. I'm one of his biggest fans. He can stay on the list as long as he likes !

Is that meant to be funny?

[saintspremiers]

Raph Clarke.

and his brother X (although moreso Raph).

I agree Saintsrrising, it's quite a big list of (so far at best) GOP's.

IF we have a Sydney-like run with injuries, all those players mentioned by you will hardly get a game, and our bottom 10 player weakness will be nicely covered up!

[SaintHomer]

Probably get burned for this, but it is a massive year for Max.. Didnt get going last year and is getting older, it will be interesting to see how he comes up this year.. Hopefully Goose and Chips can take over the mantle as the leaders of the backline, so he will get a lesser player whom he should carve up.. it is a big year for him and could lead to a few more seasons, or it may be his last... time will tell...

it's a fair call and you shouldn't get "burned" for having an opinion.

max is fantastic but the way he throws himself around, is always a chance of injury. very important to our makeup but still needs a good '08. another injury riddled year could be detrimental to him and us.

[Otiman]

I did not include any of the Rookies...only senior list players.

Having been on the senior list and having played a number of AFL games, I think he deserves to be in this thread.

[saintsRrising]

I would like to think that EVERY player on our list feels the need to perform !!

Well yes....but the question was which ones have to improve or face the chop?

Gilbert for example could play at the same standard as he did in 2007 and would be retained. So I did not include him.

[plugger66]

I would like to think that EVERY player on our list feels the need to perform !!

Well yes....but the question was which ones have to improve or face the chop?

Gilbert for example could play at the same standard as he did in 2007 and would be retained. So I did not include him.

So could Blake and probably Jimmy

[saintsRrising]

I did not include any of the Rookies...only senior list players.

Having been on the senior list and having played a number of AFL games, I think he deserves to be in this thread.

Well yes....

However most of our rookies have to improve enough to be elevated or they will not be there in 2009.

The others that could technically be retained as rookies in 2009 must show improvement or be delisted as well.

If any of them do not show improvement I would imagine that they will be gone.....so to me all rookies must deliver more. Any of them that tread water will soon be in another pool....

[saintsRrising]

So could Blake and probably Jimmy

It may be that "rose colored glasses" time of year for me, but presently I see our list as better than in 2007 and importantly that more players will be available for more of the time.

Consequently, I see the average performance required by players being higher in 2008 than 2007....and by imagined likely standard the 2007 form of Blake or Gwilt would not cut the mustard in 2008.



Then again I may be way off base and the Saints may have another very ordinary year and Blakes' 2007 standard may see him snare another 22 games played.

[plugger66]

So could Blake and probably Jimmy

It may be that "rose colored glasses" time of year for me, but presently I see our list as better than in 2007 and importantly that more players will be available for more of the time.

Consequently, I see the average performance required by players being higher in 2008 than 2007....and by imagined likely standard the 2007 form of Blake or Gwilt would not cut the mustard in 2008.



Then again I may be way off base and the Saints may have another very ordinary year and Blakes' 2007 standard may see him snare another 22 games played.

He was top 10 in the b&f last year so alot of players need to pass him. If he plays as well as last season he will be safe IMO.

[SENsei]

Silvia Saint would be under the pump a bit at the moment with Jenna Jameson's retirement from the backline?

[older saint]

X Clarke has to be under the micro scope. Shows flashes but makes some bad errors for a guys who has played that many games. MIsses key shots on goal and bad turnovers.

Raph is younger and should be given more time given he is also taller. Showed some good signes towards the end ( freo game stands out) and it appears more a confidence thing with him.

Howard - as you said not much expected yet. Give him time always a project

We lacked depth so need to be careful not to clean out too many of that mid range players especially withour injury history.

[saintsRrising]

He was top 10 in the b&f last year so alot of players need to pass him. If he plays as well as last season he will be safe IMO.

Well that is exactly what I am hoping.

If the Saints play at our 2007 standard in 2008 we will finish bottom third. There are a few sliders but more teams that will be harder to beat in 2008.

Lets hope:

BJ
King
Schneider
X
Raph
Goose
Max
Ball

all pass him...

and maybe some of M Gardiner, Dempster, Armo, Allen, Birss or Geary...


Or conversely that Blake lifts a cog and earns his place. His best games in 2007 were very good....but he had some shockers too.

[saintsRrising]

We lacked depth so need to be careful not to clean out too many of that mid range players especially withour injury history.

Well I certainly would not expect all of that group to go.....just that theyare the group of players that need to deliver ata higher standard to be sure to be retained.

For example it would quite stunning if Armo was not on the list in 2009...

[Dan Warna]

while Im a fan of mini's efforts and think several coaches haven't worked with him enough, when clearly he has ability, his lifeline is so thin...

he needs to have a saint get a long term injury, his magoo's form must be sufficient to get elevated past the other rookies, and he then needs to get into the seniors and perform there.

last year several players did well in springvale and that wasn't enough for a game in the seniors, or if they did break past the selection table they found themselves on the outer in the seniors.

Andrew thompson got a what? 47 touch game? and couldn't find a path to the on ball division.

IMO mini path is on a knife edge.

I hope he can prove to everyone he's got the makings of an AFL player, but I wouldn't bet on it. And i certainly wouldn't want us to be iin a position where we needed to elevate a rookie and the form of our seniors so bad, that player 39 on the list was required to play...

[St Fidelius]

Yep the usual suspects do bob up time and time again about Fergs, don't they, OP...


I do gather those have not seen him play much??????????


and maybe don't even register that the coach has seen his ability ??????

the very mention of years Fergs has been on our list and not a word of injuries he has encountered is outstanding.

Keep on keeping on! for this is the words of "wisdom" from the OP...

From my point of view Fergs is a forward, but has been forced to play back in his matches......

He can play tall or small and is a good mark......

To me, he will likely play in Attard's position, which is again not his best position...

But will do his best if given the chance...

Some of those who consider themselves to have some clue have F*** all IMO...

But then again it is my opinion