What future for Watts????

[saintsRrising]

On the plus side he is big and strong and powerful mark........on the debit side he is slow and a bit awkward.

That in itself is not a problem as you can have such a type in your forward line...as long as they are good marks and can convert to kick the goals.


However for Watts the problem is that IF the Saints can find a ruck...that Kosi will most likely play most of the game as that type of forward.

Given the way players run, flood and rebound these days it is difficult to imagine playing two such big slow forwards permanently.

You could easly if you had them play say 3 Reiwoldts in your forward line...but not 3 Watts or 3 Kosis.

So would a forward line with Kosi, Watts and Roo be too cumbersome?? some weeks no...but in others yes.

I think if you are going to play 3 talls in your forward line permanently (ie I am not talking aboita the ruckmen drifting foreward) then at least 2 of them need to be mobile.


ie say Roo and Gilbert....as well as one of Watts or Kosi.


so IF say Gardiner does shape up.....or the Club trades for a ruck.......then watts may have to wait some time for regular senior games.


Then again Roos may decide to have Gardi and Kosi share the ruck....and use Kosi as a an impact forward......and in which case Watts has a chance to shine.

But if say a Jolly is gained.....then does Watts become one of the few (if not the only) capable players on our list who would have trade value but whom we do not havea place for in our best 22?? The Dogs for example may trade well for a big guy that can take good grabs.

If the saints are unlikely to play him....does it make sense to keep him asa "spare"....when for example we could better utlise another Mid, FB or Ruckman??

[LTN16]

I think he has got a big future at the St Kilda Football Club.

He should be given first crack at FF.

[Riewoldting]

Then again Roos may decide to have Gardi and Kosi share the ruck....and use Kosi as a an impact forward......and in which case Watts has a chance to shine.

He's still coaching Sydney mate.

But I think this is the most likely scenario ... Gardiner (and later Van Rheenan) as the number 1 ruck ... Kosi rotating through ruck and forward line ... and Watts as the dedicated forward.

Similar to Blake/Ottens/Mooney at Geelong.

The difference is, we have the luxury of a big CHF running defenders off their feet and taking big grabs anywhere from full forward to centre half back. Wouldn't catch N Ablett doing that.

[wildgoose]

Interesting question. He hasn't been given an opportunity yet. Now that there might be one, you'd hope he'd get a crack at the Full Forward position.

[saintsRrising]

Similar to Blake/Ottens/Mooney at Geelong.

.

Though the Cats do not play two lumberers at once down there...

Mooney is quite mobile....as is Ablett.

The Cats for example do not play Ottens and Blake (or King) both in their forward line at the same time for substaniial chumnks of the game...

Watts cannot go for a run in the ruck either....

[Viking3]

Saw many Scorpions games this year and would, without doubt, rate Brooks a better FF option. Far more mobile, better leap, great kick for goal and and can pinch hit in the ruck.
With this in mind, and in the knowledge that we need more pacy midfielders, offer Watts to, say, Doggies, who need big guys and see what they would give.

[SaintWodonga]

We gave up our 1st round selection for Watts, so I think that he must be given a go. We put a lot of faith in him, (were we influnced by the fact his father, Jim, was invovled at the club at the time?) so give him a go.

Brooks should be given a go too. He kicked 3 goals in the last round of 2006, and he did a beautiful palm down to Milne for a great goal.

It's time one of them be given a go. If they are not given a go, they must be let go. Can't have either in limbo any more.

[Otiman]

Give him the biggest pre-season ever, tell him his career is on the line, and get him some extensive 1 on 1 training with someone decent.

Throw him to the wolves, and give him at least 5 consecutive games.

[plugger66]

Give him the biggest pre-season ever, tell him his career is on the line, and get him some extensive 1 on 1 training with someone decent.

Throw him to the wolves, and give him at least 5 consecutive games.

Please explain this 5 consecutive games. We lose 2 in a row and he doesnt get a kick so we drop someone else who has played better. Why should anyone be given games if they should be dropped.

[Eastern]

I see both Kosi & Gardi as Ruck/Forward or Forward/Ruck. Fergus might fit into that rotation depending on Match ups. Lets not forget either that one of the best games Nick R has ever played was when he played on a wing against Rich/Richo a few years ago !!

[mad saint guy]

Please explain this 5 consecutive games. We lose 2 in a row and he doesnt get a kick so we drop someone else who has played better. Why should anyone be given games if they should be dropped.

Did you notice any improvement in Goddard after he was given senior experience? Do you think that it was wrong to stick with Sam Fisher early in 2005? Should Maguire have had to wait until 2004 before he was given an opportunity?

Kids brought into the senior team do not usually perform straight away. They need experience at the top level before they can really show what they can do. Even kids in top teams have been carried in the side this year. Boak, Leuenberger, Ellis, Gibbs, Goldsack etc were not ahead of other more experienced players when selected for their first few games. But they were given experience and the chance to gradually improve over time.

This year we have seen Gilbert and Raph Clarke improve hugely after given some considerable game time.

One of Watts or Brooks will play in round one. As long as they don't embarrass themselves they should get at least a month to show eveyone what they can do. If Watts plays the first 3 games for a couple of goals and takes a few good grabs then he should stay in the side. Obviously if he just doesn't look up to it and becomes a true liability then he should be dropped.

[plugger66]

Please explain this 5 consecutive games. We lose 2 in a row and he doesnt get a kick so we drop someone else who has played better. Why should anyone be given games if they should be dropped.

Did you notice any improvement in Goddard after he was given senior experience? Do you think that it was wrong to stick with Sam Fisher early in 2005? Should Maguire have had to wait until 2004 before he was given an opportunity?

Kids brought into the senior team do not usually perform straight away. They need experience at the top level before they can really show what they can do. Even kids in top teams have been carried in the side this year. Boak, Leuenberger, Ellis, Gibbs, Goldsack etc were not ahead of other more experienced players when selected for their first few games. But they were given experience and the chance to gradually improve over time.

This year we have seen Gilbert and Raph Clarke improve hugely after given some considerable game time.

One of Watts or Brooks will play in round one. As long as they don't embarrass themselves they should get at least a month to show eveyone what they can do. If Watts plays the first 3 games for a couple of goals and takes a few good grabs then he should stay in the side. Obviously if he just doesn't look up to it and becomes a true liability then he should be dropped.

You have said it all. If he is a liability you drop him. That is why no one should be given consecutive games unless they are deserved. Brooks a kid. Give me a break.

[Oh When the Saints]

plugger makes a fair point though.

All very well to give a kid a few games, but he has to show something.

No use promising Watts/Brooks 4-5 matches if they don't touch the footy in their first two games.

[fonz_#15]

he should have to earn his stripes with a dedicated and hard working pre-season. If he wants the position bad enough, he will work for it.

i disagree that he should be given 5 games to prove himself, if he doesn't get near the footy, you can't justify selecting him each week.

his destiny is in his own hands, he must take the opportun ity with both hands and cement the FF spot.

also MSG, i know your a big brooks mark, but i dont think he will survive this years delistings

[Mooksy]

No future at all at St Kilda in my opinion. A good ordinary VFL player.

[saintsRrising]

and Raph Clarke improve hugely after given some considerable game time.
.

I don't really understand your comment as Raph came in after no pre-season and few games before his first senior game which was woeful.

He improved not because he was playing senior football...but more because he was playing football and getting fitter...

ie...the same for Max...



However I do agree with the fact that guys when tried in the seniois may show their stuff and respond to the challenge.

[mad saint guy]

If he is a liability you drop him. That is why no one should be given consecutive games unless they are deserved.

If someone is a true liability (the player contributing nothing and his opponent is hurting us) then they should defiitely go.

But just consider this type of situation:
Hayes is out for round one with a minor injury and will be available for round two. Birss and Armitage are selected for round one. Birss gets 14 possessions in a fairly disappointing performance while Armo picks up 12 possessions from little game time. Neither play particularly well, but we need one of them in the team as a backup onballer and one to be dropped for Hayes. Birss played a slightly better game than Armitage, but logically you would leave Armo in the side as he will improve with the experience. If you are selecting players exclusively on their performance then Birss would stay in.

He improved not because he was playing senior football...but more because he was playing football and getting fitter...

You are right, Raph wasn't a great example, however he definitely needed a few weeks just top adjust to the pace and quality of AFL footy as well as getting his fitness back.

No use promising Watts/Brooks 4-5 matches if they don't touch the footy in their first two games

That is true, but if they do show a few good signs then they should stay. Less than 6 possessions from 80 minutes of game time in 2 consecutive weeks should see them out of the side, but they shouldn't be expected to kick 3 goals every week either.

[cwrcyn]

Mooksy, Watts has played one senior game, then been sidelined for 14 months with a broken ankle (with complications).

Remember, Gilbert played one or two games in 2006, but after being given a chance this year has blossomed.


At least see him play in the seniors a few times when he's 100% fit before condemning him to the scrapheap.

[Unforgiven]

I dont know why some folks have a beat down on Watts. I reckon he will go quite well, sure we traded pick no.17, but I mean Mini was a pick 17 and has done nothin thus far. Watts has a good future ahead of him, and I look forward to being a important part of a forward set up in 08 and beyond.

[skeptic]

Ppl seem to forget that Watts broke his leg like twice last year and virtually missed the entire season and then some...

surely you have to expect that this would slolw down his development +++... he threw together a reasonable come back season in the reserves and is only now ready to take take his game up to a new level

[Leo.J]

Ppl seem to forget that Watts broke his leg like twice last year and virtually missed the entire season and then some...

surely you have to expect that this would slolw down his development +++... he threw together a reasonable come back season in the reserves and is only now ready to take take his game up to a new level

Spot on...

[woooosaints]

He broke his ankle. Ross lyon will have a certain ammount of players he is prepared to blood every year focusing on the FF he will probabally give watts a run if he kicks 2 goals a game and takes 8 marks i think hes worth staying on but if he doesnt show anything next years hes out

[Dan Warna]

yeppers.

if saints were in charge of selection and drafting mcintosh would have been delisted from north, montagna traded for a round 3 draft pick, sam fisher delisted, kosi traded for a round 2 draft pick, heck I remember the nongs saying what has reiwoldt done for us lately, and can we get something for him after his first season injured and a nondescript couple of early games for us etc etc.

watts may or may not make it, but some of the 'eat the player' attitudes here are completely nongish.

sure some dont make it, (glen coughlan was one a lot of us had marked as a future CHB) but to shoot them before they are 21/22 is a bit silly IMO, especially the big fellas.

btw how old was cox when he started making an impact? (i forget geniune question, not rhetorical)