Talk says Burke to take on Butterss

[JeffDunne]

LOL, I blame 'everything' on Rod do I?

Sad and pathetic is bringing everything back to Grant Thomas (as I see you are trying to do) , lacking comprehension skills and accepting second best. This admin has had 7 years to get it right and by your own admission they are still 'lagging'.

Please feel free to quote me where I have potted the rest of the board. I don't believe I have. Feel free to put up with your claim though - but I suspect like the other lemmings you'll fabricate because you can't back up your attack with substance.

The president of the club keeps getting us into the papers for all the wrong reasons. Don't blame me, GT, Caro or anyone else for that.

Ask yourself kaos, how do you think Nathan Burke's name ended up in the press?

[kaos theory]

LOL!

JD, you really need to get your paranoia treated.

[joffaboy]

JD can look after himself, however he has been consistant in the fact that he would be happy to see Butters gone and the board retained.

I have read that from him on numerous occasions.

And the suggestion is not without merit. That would have the Butters/Thomas love affair/estrangement gone from the club for good.

Both were great for the club once upon a time. Both have had their use-by-dates come and go.

Would not be unhappy to see the back of both in relation to the Saints for good.

[JeffDunne]

Paranoia?

About what?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

BAM!, I don't doubt we were better in the second half but we had a relatively soft draw. Other than the West Coast win in Perth, there weren't many games where we came close to playing to a level we are capable of.

Agreed - with qualification. I don't think the draw was that soft (depends what your view is on Sydney, Adelaide, Dogs, and C'wood though, certainly see your view)- while not as tough as some others dealt with, the summation that we weren't as good as we were capable of is IMO, the salient point.

Unfortunately, St K boiled down to having one great quarter regardless of opponent, generally a passing one, and at least one where they were holding on... and the extra quarter was anyone's guess. Put it down to what you will (for me, it's kicking at goal, kicking in general, and not being fit enough to play their own gameplan), there's plenty of room for improvement, and reasons to be hopeful.

At 7-3-1, I don't think the coaching panel needs to make excuses for the second half. I would hope (and I've seen no signs) that they viewed the 2nd half as optimal output - but the IMO, the Saints 9th place finish (and hence any case the coaching panel has to answer) was made in the first half with sizeable losses to Brisbane, Hawthorn, Freo and Essendon... and a woeful 4th quarter against Collingwood.

[kaos theory]

Paranoia?

About what?

Your posts indicate that you think everyting that Rod does is bad for the club, and that anyone that doesn't agree 100% with everything you say on the matter must love Rod & hate GT.....

You seem to have difficulty understanding that:
- Rod has done some great work for the club but there have been some poor/concerning aspects to the management & board.
- I and others have said that while GT did some great things for the club, we are glad that he was replaced and we made the necessary changes to the structure & operation of the footy department
- I have stated that a relplacement ticket needs to be credible, otherwise its determental to the club...

why is that so hard to understand?... You ignore this & refer to me and others as 'lemmings'....

[JeffDunne]

Paranoia?

About what?

Your posts indicate that you think everyting that Rod does is bad for the club, and that anyone that doesn't agree 100% with everything you say on the matter must love Rod & hate GT.....

I do? TBH, I think the reverse is true and your post was evidence of that.

It seems that if you have a problem with the president then it always comes back to GT. I said at the time and I'll say it again, the board had every right to make the call on the coach provided they were prepared to make good with their reasons. IMO they didn't.

I think you'll also find that for the most part I have been supportive of "Rossy" and I certainly don't blame him for us going backwards this year.

You seem to have difficulty understanding that:
- Rod has done some great work for the club but there have been some poor/concerning aspects to the management & board.

And I think you have trouble reading. What you've either overlooked or missed in my posts, you've decided to fill with fabrications.

Rod's last 12 months have been his worst as president. After 7 years in the job that tells me it is time for him to rethink his position.

- I and others have said that while GT did some great things for the club, we are glad that he was replaced and we made the necessary changes to the structure & operation of the footy department

Why do you keep bringing this back to a GT issue? He's gone and talk of bringing him back now is a nonsense. I've never suggested that.

BTW, we didn't make the necessary changes & it's why we have gone backwards and it's why I think Rod didn't live up to his promises.

- I have stated that a relplacement ticket needs to be credible, otherwise its determental to the club...

That goes without saying . . . doesn't it?

why is that so hard to understand?... You ignore this & refer to me and others as 'lemmings'....

I refer to you as lemmings because you think wanting RB gone has something to do with GT. Like Rod, his supporters seem to be the people having the most trouble moving on.

[mischa]

Rod was just on SEN doing some of his best spinning.

Plenty of clichés, plenty of self justification, plenty of "Rossy's" and plenty of talk about sitting down and having coffee. Not much else.

Makes me wanna puke!

The funniest line he said this morning was along the lines of that he implored those with views to a challenge to not conduct it through the media.

Even more so.

[Oh When the Saints]

I also think R.B has done a reasonable job. When you think of the kaos that was the StKilda Football club for so many years, I cant see what the bitch is about R.B. Surely Burkey wouldnt run as Pres on the motivation you are talking about. (sacking of Thomo) I would credit Burkey with a heel of lot more business acumen than that !

My understanding is (I may be wrong) that Burkey wasn't exactly upset when the Saints changed coaches last year.


No challenge to the board is GT-motivated. The club's on-field performance is not the direct issue.

It is our lack of spending on the football department, our lack of a training facility and adminstration facility that is up to standard and some other marketing and revenue issues.

[Mr Magic]

LOL, I blame 'everything' on Rod do I?


The president of the club keeps getting us into the papers for all the wrong reasons. Don't blame me, GT, Caro or anyone else for that.

Ask yourself kaos, how do you think Nathan Burke's name ended up in the press?

JD, I have purposely stayed away from your 'sack RB thread' but now I cannot help myself from responding (put it down to a lack of self-control!)

To answer the question you put at the start of this thread.

YES YOU DO.

Now, I've looked high and low for anywhere that someone has definitively stated that RB is responsible for putting Burkey's name in the papers and I must be blind because I cannot find it.

In fact, THE ONLY PERSON WHO SEEMS TO SUGGEST THAT IT WAS RB IS YOU!

You have tried over and over to tell us all that Caro is just a 'stooge' for RB and that she is writing/doing things at his bidding. That he is using her in his personal campaign to destroy GT.

Please show us all 'proof' that RB is responsible for this story by Caro. It's time you started 'putting up'.

Yes, I and everyone else knows your extremely low opinion of RB, but it has become a bit much when you continuously post your opinion as fact on this matter.

You have been agitating all season for RB to either go or be sacked and now when Caro writes an 'agitation piece' you have the temerity to blame it on RB?

No-one is saying that RB hasn't made mistakes, and quite frankly, if someone with better credentials puts himself up for election then I would vote for him/her.

BUT, to date, all we have is you demanding he goes and be replaced by ???????????????

Who is the mystery man/woman?
When can we mere members be let in on the inside information you so obviously have as to the identity of this all-knowing, all-seeing, all-doing, superstar who is going to deliver us from the jaws of Lucifer Butters?

And who will be the team of genii he/she will bring with him?

I mean, this Board must go because they obviously cannot be any good. Afterall, they voted with Lucifer Butters and allowed him to run the Club as his own personal plaything to the detriment of the players, officials, employees and members.
Surely, they couldn't be allowed to stay after doing that could they?

Come on JD, educate us all.

The truth is this JD.

No matter how many times you tell us how bad RB is and that he has to go, until I know who the hell is opposing him to run my Club, I suspect most reasoned people will not be voting him out just becaues you tell us to.

[Mr Magic]

I also think R.B has done a reasonable job. When you think of the kaos that was the StKilda Football club for so many years, I cant see what the bitch is about R.B. Surely Burkey wouldnt run as Pres on the motivation you are talking about. (sacking of Thomo) I would credit Burkey with a heel of lot more business acumen than that !

My understanding is (I may be wrong) that Burkey wasn't exactly upset when the Saints changed coaches last year.

Does anybody know what happened when Burkey quit as a specialist coach under GT?

[AlpineStars]

I think RB should go, he talks about following a process that he himself has clearly not followed, GT was elected through a bulls**t process, no one is bigger than the club this is true but RB beleives he is the St Kilda Football Club. This year was crap our season over by round 11 make no mistake we all hung out for the great escape but we were gone half way through the year the playing group over the last 11 rounds had us hanging on to hope. The replacement of GT had a massive destabilising influence on our season. Injuries and form did not stop us from making the eight but the inept running of our club did. Time after time we are a laughing stock.

[Oh When the Saints]

This was in the Herald Sun today:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 72,00.html

Butterss presidency under pressure
03 September 2007 Herald Sun
Damian Barrett

ROD Butterss' seven-year hold on the St Kilda presidency will come under pressure this week, with club greats and big-business identities ready to support a rival ticket.

The challenge to the Butterss board has been speculated for the past two months, but those preparing for the coup will finalise their plans this week after the Saints failed to qualify for the finals.

Greg Westaway, chairman and founder of Gregorys Transport, is believed to have been approached to head the rival ticket.

Nathan Burke, the 323-match Saints legend, has also been sounded out for a place on the alternative board, along with other significant St Kilda figures.

Another season of Butterss-versus-Grant Thomas distractions as well as concerns about the running of the club, mainly the football department, and low revenue streams, have prompted dozens of secret meetings and phone calls in the past month among those seeking change.

While some identities have committed to joining or supporting the rival ticket, others are weighing up the potential cost to the club in what could become a messy showdown.

Butterss has been aware of the looming attack on his leadership for some time and has tried to talk challengers out of taking him on.

He has also attempted to woo Mark Mentha on to the Saints' board.

Mentha, the corporate-recovery expert who gained prominence when appointed an administrator of Ansett airlines, has refused to return calls to the Herald Sun in the past two weeks.

Butterss jovially called the paper telling it to "stop annoying Mark Mentha" after it sent an email to Mentha last month.

But, even if humorously delivered, it was a peculiar request, given the Herald Sun had asked only to talk to ask Mentha about AFL-related matters and made no reference to St Kilda in the email.

Thomas, sacked as coach this time last year after three successive finals campaigns, will not be part of the challenging ticket.



Sounds like it will go ahead ...

[JeffDunne]

To answer the question you put at the start of this thread.

Firstly, the thread was simply to highlight yet another Caro article about St Kilda's off field situation and I didn't ask any question. I presume you meant post rather than thread?

YES YOU DO.

Another that wants to tell me what I think.

If you'd like to list the 'problems' the club has had I would be happy to answer who I think is responsible. Ultimately though the buck stops at the top, but that's not to suggest every 'problem' is theirs in the making, but it is certainly theirs to fix when there is a problem. Buy 'theirs' I mean the board and Rod as the president.

Now, I've looked high and low for anywhere that someone has definitively stated that RB is responsible for putting Burkey's name in the papers and I must be blind because I cannot find it.

In fact, THE ONLY PERSON WHO SEEMS TO SUGGEST THAT IT WAS RB IS YOU!

I did indeed suggest it, but I also asked the question. It may not have been him and I certainly didn't claim any 'inside info' that it was the case, but listening to Rod this morning it wouldn't surprise me at all. He did nothing to end the speculation and IMO simply added to it.

You have tried over and over to tell us all that Caro is just a 'stooge' for RB and that she is writing/doing things at his bidding. That he is using her in his personal campaign to destroy GT.

Please show us all 'proof' that RB is responsible for this story by Caro. It's time you started 'putting up'.

Read the article, it's clear Caro thinks the board has been 'leaking' information. Ask yourself, how would she know this?

As for Caro doing Rod's bidding, I think Caro is smarter than that. However, she has had some pretty good info over the years and I have no doubt this information has come from one or more board members and her article would appear to be an admission of it.

Yes, I and everyone else knows your extremely low opinion of RB, but it has become a bit much when you continuously post your opinion as fact on this matter.

Unlike some others here, I stick to what is in the public domain. Of course I post my opinion - like everyone else here - but it really has me baffled why so many take offence to it. I guess I should take it as a compliment. There are plenty of others that share my view and there's plenty just in this thread, but for some bizarre reason you and my other 'fans' seem intent on focusing on my views.

You have been agitating all season for RB to either go or be sacked and now when Caro writes an 'agitation piece' you have the temerity to blame it on RB?

When Caro writes "as soon as tomorrow there is every chance Thomas will make good his threat to officially sue the club for more money", where do you think this comes from? GT? LOL, she would be the last person GT would be discussing this with.

No-one is saying that RB hasn't made mistakes, and quite frankly, if someone with better credentials puts himself up for election then I would vote for him/her.

BUT, to date, all we have is you demanding he goes and be replaced by ???????????????

Who is the mystery man/woman?
When can we mere members be let in on the inside information you so obviously have as to the identity of this all-knowing, all-seeing, all-doing, superstar who is going to deliver us from the jaws of Lucifer Butters

And who will be the team of genii he/she will bring with him??

I'm not here to do anyone's bidding and I've answered this a dozen times. It is simply my opinion that if Rod was to step aside, there are plenty of people I believe that could do the job successfully including some current board members.

I mean, this Board must go because they obviously cannot be any good. Afterall, they voted with Lucifer Butters and allowed him to run the Club as his own personal plaything to the detriment of the players, officials, employees and members.
Surely, they couldn't be allowed to stay after doing that could they?

Come on JD, educate us all.

Why would I try and educate someone that obviously knows what I think?

It doesn't matter how many times I post my opinion there's always someone willing to tell me what I really think.

I ask again, why does my opinion upset you so much?

The truth is this JD.

No matter how many times you tell us how bad RB is and that he has to go, until I know who the hell is opposing him to run my Club, I suspect most reasoned people will not be voting him out just becaues you tell us to.

The turth? LOL

How on earth do you vote him out if there isn't an alternative?

[bungiton]

In the aftermath of what was a dismal season, this is one scar that needs working on poste haste. The board has been a bit of a circus for at least the last twelve months, the sacking of Thomas, rightly or wrongly, has continued to be a festering sore that every copule of weeks gets the scab ripped off and starts oozing all over again.

Rod and Thomas originally started out with a friendship and a resolve to put the club first and make it a better place. this one fact alone is a reason that we need change at a board level, Butterss has used every oppotunity to stick the boots into GT and Gt has taken every opportunity to retaliate.

The club deserves better than two whininng bitches who scream over the fence at each other, over their dirty laundry.

If a ticket was formed as suggested with players such as Burke involved it would still have to be a serious attempt to continue the reform that the originally smart partnership of Butterss and Thomas originally pioneered.

one of the first things I would personally love to see is the dismissal of Archie, this guy might be a Svengalli of something somewhere, but from what I see he's been the equivalent of farting at thunder. how many cockups have the Butterss/ fraser cliche presided over this year?

A strong explayer or two on the board would see the players actually relating a little to the board for mine, not just a bunch of clowns with suits, rolling ideas around whilst at the player level nothing is seen to be done.

We need a training base, a serious overhaul of fitness and medical services, the long standing injury excuse at Moorabin needs to be a distant memory, we need a board that will work through the current social club fiasco to finally organise a training facility somewhere that sees this club progress as a proffessional outfit.

Agendas at a board levell need to also be exited out with the current board, the only agenda should be a selfless and committed attempt to further the club as a whole.

Until we have a stable solid board that are backed 100% by players, members, supporters and the employees at the club, we will continue to roll along getting nowhere.

Lets face it, the board has basically signed it's own death warrant last year by not accepting mediocrity and exiting out Thomas, the fact that after blaming the clubs woes on the Autocracy of Thomas and alluding to the fact we could only go forward without him, the fact that 12 months later, we come off a season, once again, destabilised by injuries, no closer to having our own state of the art training facility, we still have a fitness department that can't keep our players on the ground and the fact that we had employees that have given long service to this club leave in droves, suggest to me that after 7 years, the board should finish what it started 12 months agoo and finish the cleanout.

[meher baba]

Sounds like it will go ahead ...

It does rather, doesn't it? Well, anyway, it sounds as if it has been al put together with some planning: Burkey would add an enormous amount of credibility to the ticket.

Whoever leaked this to the Herald-Sun - presumably one of the organisers - was also extremely sensible in emphasizing up front that GT will have no involvement.

Interesting that the proposed new President is a transport company owner, like Mr Fox. Are they mates or hated competitors, I wonder?

[Zed]

For f**ks sake, we had the worst injury list in yrs for the first half of the season. We had 23 to 25 players to choose from over a period of 4 games in the first half. GT didn't have that in his sucessful yrs. We had only 4 players that

Is that true ??? - because it didnt seem that much different than in previous years to be perfectly honest. I seem to recall we played in a prelim final against Sydney with 6 of our best 22 sitting in the grandstand.

Maybe I have selective memory - but I'm sure there are stats freaks out there that can give us a real look at what our injuries were like over the past 4 years.

Lets get some facts before we start defending what was a very dissapointing season.

[The Fireman]

I'm not sure that any change at board level would make a difference atm, what has happened has happened, we have a new coach and we now must move forward.
How and why would a change at board level be for the better?

[Oh When the Saints]

The board challenge has nothing to do with the Grant Thomas sacking or Ross Lyon. Nothing at all.

Fireman, it is largely unconcerned with football matters, but relates to off-field matters.

From what I gather, it is concerned with the following:

- Lack of attention to the injury management problem until this year - four years of neglect
- No elite training facility yet constructed for the club
- No home base with an administration and social club facility
- Low revenue streams that have not increased significantly over the past four years
- Lack of marketing expertise at the club
- Fall in membership in 2007
- Profits made through cutting costs rather than increasing income
- Unprofessional attitude of the President in the media at times this year, coupled with his public and high profile spat with a former coach


The are some of the issues anyway ...

[stinger]

[...GT had to go, maybe the board acted too slowly in stamping its authority on the footy department.

P

....why did thomas have to go......i am not buyting that line....neither are hundreds...if not thousands of saints supporters..ffs......

...it's our turn to have a say now......

[stinger]

The board challenge has nothing to do with the Grant Thomas sacking or Ross Lyon. Nothing at all.

Fireman, it is largely unconcerned with football matters, but relates to off-field matters.

From what I gather, it is concerned with the following:

- Lack of attention to the injury management problem until this year - four years of neglect
- No elite training facility yet constructed for the club
- No home base with an administration and social club facility
- Low revenue streams that have not increased significantly over the past four years
- Lack of marketing expertise at the club
- Fall in membership in 2007
- Profits made through cutting costs rather than increasing income
- Unprofessional attitude of the President in the media at times this year, coupled with his public and high profile spat with a former coach


The are some of the issues anyway ...

maybe some of the issues...but you are wrong...dead wrong if you don't think that sacking thomas has anything to do with it............

[The Fireman]

The board challenge has nothing to do with the Grant Thomas sacking or Ross Lyon. Nothing at all.

Fireman, it is largely unconcerned with football matters, but relates to off-field matters.

From what I gather, it is concerned with the following:

- Lack of attention to the injury management problem until this year - four years of neglect
- No elite training facility yet constructed for the club
- No home base with an administration and social club facility
- Low revenue streams that have not increased significantly over the past four years
- Lack of marketing expertise at the club
- Fall in membership in 2007
- Profits made through cutting costs rather than increasing income
- Unprofessional attitude of the President in the media at times this year, coupled with his public and high profile spat with a former coach


The are some of the issues anyway ...

i would have thought most of those issues will be fixed when the new facilities are built?

[Oh When the Saints]

Two of the issues ... and the training base was promised four years ago, and is still at least 2 years away from happening.

That's just not good enough.

[bungiton]

Like I said, the board made a noose for their own neck last year when they sacked GT, which I agree was the right decision. The major problem was the spin they put on about how mediority would not be accepted at St Kilda. Now lets face it they sacked a coach who had got the list to finals three years in a row, one year later we're out of the eight, out of ideas and looking like running out of time.

Butters and Archie might just get shown the same door they showed GT last year, time for some new ideas and a little less mediocrity.

[stinger]

Butters and Archie might just get shown the same door they showed GT last year, time for some new ideas and a little less mediocrity.

it's called karma............