Plugga, Hall and Spider

[Shades]

Can some one plz tell me who or what we got for them?

thanks

[Selhurst Saint]

Stability

[mcadam05]

we got dal for hall

[The Saintsational Man]

Plugger ***3 Way Trade With Hawthorn***

Glen Nugent - Hawthorn
Joshua Kitchen - Hawthorn
Robert Neil - Sydney
Draft Picks (I Think???)

Hall - 3 Draft Picks

#13 - "Nick Dal Santo"

#17 - Traded to Fremantle for "Heath Black"

#45 - Traded to Brisbane for "Trent Knobel"

Everitt - 2 Draft Picks

#06 - Traded to Port Adelaide for "Barry Brooks"

#22 - "Matthew Ferguson"

[TheBabyBlues]

This is a convo i was having the other day.

As saints supporters, were/are you happy with trading away some very talented players to clean up the culture of your club? Obviously all of those boys can play but were they better in your team or away from it?

Its a bit of a quandry carlton find themselves in with fev atm. Very interested to hear some thought on supporters of a team who made the hard call and what they think of it.

Were you shattered at the time? Thankful later?
Do you still hold a grudge against the people involved for doing it?
Was it the best thing you could've done?

Let me know what you think.

[The Jeff]

Was it the best thing you could've done?

Yes. They were a poison slow infiltrating and infecting all corners of the football club.

You cannot put a price on having a strong and positive culture 'ingrained' within the club. Furthermore, it sends one mighty message to those at the club to behave.

[TheBabyBlues]

Was it the best thing you could've done?

Yes. They were a poison slow infiltrating and infecting all corners of the football club.

You cannot put a price on having a strong and positive culture 'ingrained' within the club. Furthermore, it sends one mighty message to those at the club to behave.

So in our situation you would want fev traded for the same reasons?

[markinUSA]

I was shattered when Plugger left. I couldn't believe it.
I had to see him in a Shytney jumper before I could believe it.
I grieved for a year, probably.

It upset me more than you can imagine.

[n1ck]

I was gutted at the time Plugger left.

I thought (and still think) that it was a travesty to let the best player in the competition go, for basically nothing.

Spider and Hall - definitely a good thing they're gone. Spider is a complete knob, and while i dont have anything against Hall apart from winning a premiership on the back of beating us (and Goose's solar plexus) - its been a good move for both club and player. From what i remember also, hes never come out and 'shamed' the club like Spider has on numerous occasions.

[Dan Warna]

Its a hard one.

in 97 if spider was fit we would have beaten adelaide.

on a crystal blue cloudless afternoon on a perfect pitch 7 out of the 10 tallest players were adelaide.

the just had 2 people on loewe and despite us winning so much of the ball in the middle, loewe was just dragged to the gound every time the ball went his way.

hall kicked a couple but was too immature to have an impact and heatly couldn't get near it.

and yet I think we were a stronger club for losing spider at the time we lost him.

hall was just money. we couldnt' match what Sydney had to offer and that was all there was to it. he needed a change and we couldn't match what sydney could spend.

Same with plugger but to a lesser degree, collingwood and sydney made obscene offers, saint kilda were desperate to hang on to him but couldn't match the money and i would say our culture at the time was on down hill slide under sheldon. Plugger was the face, the front, and hope of st kilda, he couldn't have a quiet drink without 30 people harrassing him.

I dont think folks realise how big plugger was to the football world in the early 90s in victoria.

we did the same thing snaring FG, he wanted out of WCE and we had a better offer than collingwood.

same again with hamill, he would have stayed at carlton for 1/2 or 2/3 of what st kilda offered him, but big jack was an idiot who though people could be bought for straight money. He was carlton, and now he is st kilda, Jack saw to that more than st kilda dollars and thats the truth of it no matter how carlton fans either hate hamill or bag him, it was jacks doing.

the ones that hurt IMO are guerra, hackland O'brien, Hall and knobel. They given a chance at st kilda and cut us for money.

there is a point where greed > loyalty and 5 players I mentioned are purely that and good on em. but I have no respect for them.

plugger to some degree I can understand.

Spider was a cancer on the club and good riddance imo. I hope he doesn't win a flag, but since when was fate fair? you have scumbags like pike with 4 medals, hacks like aaron keating with a premiership medal and class like chris grant and robert harvey with none.

[TheBabyBlues]

So Dan Warna and nick...
Which one of them do you think Fev is closest fit too?

Plugger - A proven goal kicker. Face of the club. Idolised by supporters (esp kids)

Everitt - A talented, temperamental bad boy who doesn't know when to shut up.

Hall - Bad boy who just needed a change and wanted more money

Personally i think a cross between Plugger and everitt. Based on both your comments and the fact that one is loved and the other despised it shows what a touchy situation we are in and why i am intrigued to hear your thoughts on the matter.

[Joffa Burns]

BB, plugger always gave his all on the field.
Not sure Fev can claim that or can be compared to a Legend of the game.

Where the Blues stand now I would trade him only if you can get the right return.

Say the Bulldogs give up their first round pick and a decent young player with potential (say Farren Ray) I think it'd be worth while as the draft pick and player can grow with the team.

With a new coach there is always the uncertainty of what Fev brings to the team.

[TheBabyBlues]

BB, plugger always gave his all on the field.
Not sure Fev can claim that or can be compared to a Legend of the game.

Where the Blues stand now I would trade him only if you can get the right return.

Say the Bulldogs give up their first round pick and a decent young player with potential (say Farren Ray) I think it'd be worth while as the draft pick and player can grow with the team.

With a new coach there is always the uncertainty of what Fev brings to the team.

I did say fev was somewhere inbetween plugger and everitt. I am well aware he is not an equal.

I agree with you in regards to trade scenario. One of the many trade rumours going around at one stage was bulldogs first pick and Cooney for Fev. Which according to the rumour we knocked back.

Now i am not a big fan of cooney, but even i would've taken that deal. Probably ditto with Ray.

I too would be disappointed if we lost fev for nothing like you guys lost plugger. That is the worst case scenario and im not surprised some of you are still devistated with that.

I do commend your club for making the hard decisions though. Whislt it didnt bring you ultimate success...it didn't hurt you either.

[n1ck]

Correct JB.

fev is a fantastic player - i dont think anyone disputes that, but for one, i dont think he WANTS to leave, and i really doubt Ratten would allow him to leave.

A club in Carltons position can ill afford to lose a player like him - unless it was for a bloody good deal, which is why im still upset about Plugger.

[evertonfc]

Gehrig and our 2nd pick (28-ish) for Fev?

[saintsRrising]

The main lessons here are ..


IF you trade....only trade if you get something reasonable or good in return...

IF you go for picks...then do not fritter them away...(ie look at the Haks for well used picks...)

By and large when a good player goes you do not receive good value back (and get less from the deal)....so if you are any chance at a flag in that players playing lifteime do your best to reform him.

Fev is an out and out matchwineer.....if you get an EXCEPTIONAL offer then think about it, otherwise do your best to reform him.

[TheBabyBlues]

Correct JB.

fev is a fantastic player - i dont think anyone disputes that, but for one, i dont think he WANTS to leave, and i really doubt Ratten would allow him to leave.

A club in Carltons position can ill afford to lose a player like him - unless it was for a bloody good deal, which is why im still upset about Plugger.

Ratten and him never actually got along while they were playing together. Not best of mates at present either. But i think Ratts has started to warm to enigmatic one.

evertonfc...
No chance...g-train is as good as done IMO.

[n1ck]

Fev is an out and out matchwineer.....if you get an EXCEPTIONAL offer then think about it, otherwise do your best to reform him.

I think thats the main thing here. carlton NEED to keep hold of him and should do whatever they need to make sure he stays on the straight and narrow. If they dont think its possible, they need to find a suitable deal that will end up positively for them.

[evertonfc]

evertonfc...
No chance...g-train is as good as done IMO.

Fair enough. What are you holding out/hoping for?

[TheBabyBlues]

Fev is an out and out matchwineer.....if you get an EXCEPTIONAL offer then think about it, otherwise do your best to reform him.

I think thats the main thing here. carlton NEED to keep hold of him and should do whatever they need to make sure he stays on the straight and narrow. If they dont think its possible, they need to find a suitable deal that will end up positively for them.

Well thats the crux of the question i guess. WHEN do you give up on trying to reform someone and WHEN do you bite the bullet and simply trade them?

[TheBabyBlues]

evertonfc...
No chance...g-train is as good as done IMO.

Fair enough. What are you holding out/hoping for?

Personally i want a player and a pick. NOT 2 players. NOT 2 picks.

From the player i dont want a young kid who may make it. I want a guarantee. Doesn't have to be the next Chris Judd, but someone who can fill a role week in, week out. If there was a young, established ruckman GREAT. If there was a KPP backmen who could play from day 1, GREAT. I'd take a mid or whatever else as long as they would be good enough to demand a spot in our best 22 from day 1.

The pick is just to even out the type of player we get. I'd be willing to take a late 2nd early 3rd rounder for an established young ruck/KPP backmen. I'd be hoping for an early first rounder with more of a fringe type midfielder for instance.

But, i want 1 guarantee and 1 speculative.

[jonesy]

Tony was a victim of the clubs lack of proffesionalism. So much so,it was probably better that he left in the end for both parties. Look what we got for the greatest player i have ever seen...nothing! A half decent club would of built a premiership around the only player in the game that was impossible to beat.

We did well out of the Hall trade. As badly behaved as he was on and off,he had a very good year in 01 for us before he left.

Spider,was a quality player,we did poorly out of him, but he probably had to go.

[riccardo]

Was it the best thing you could've done?

Yes. They were a poison slow infiltrating and infecting all corners of the football club.

You cannot put a price on having a strong and positive culture 'ingrained' within the club. Furthermore, it sends one mighty message to those at the club to behave.

So in our situation you would want fev traded for the same reasons?

Thats really your problem now, isn't it?

[SaintWodonga]

Apart from Dal, we got close to nothing. For the plugger trade we got ripped off big time. Almost as bad as the Stewert trade to Richmond. As for spider, I think I would have preffered to keep pick 6 than Brooks.

[The Saintsational Man]

In the Everitt trade pick #6 ended up been;

Steven Salopek

Averaging 18.8 disposal per game this year