The Cordy v Howard argument

[SydneySainter]

This is starting to remind me a bit of the Hickey v Longer argument, as in who is the less mediocre.

Howard, a bit like Longer is arguably better in a physical one-on-one contest (but like Longer, also a bit overstated in that department by some of the fans), but his disposal is a liability. Also, he’s prone to brain fades under pressure and lacks accountability.

Cordy, a bit like Hickey is a better ball user and makes a contest, but has demonstrated he struggles in the one-on-ones against the power forwards.

Maybe the reality is that neither are the answer.

[Trev from the Bush]

Disagree with your last sentence.

Cordy v Hulk Hogan was always a big ask, made more difficult by a dominant and exceptionally skilled Giants midfield that made the defenders task a nightmare. I backed Cordy at selection due to Dougal having missed seven weeks. In hindsight, the more athletic Howard may have been a better choice.

[B.M]

Cordy was really aggressive with his positioning basically too k front position by 15-20m

The just kicked it over Cordy and marks were taken out the back

Wilkie (much smaller than Cordy) played Hogan back shoulder and whipped him

[SaintWiki]

I would have gone for Howard but the Cordy was selected. Nevertheless, everything is about the future development and no matter what is said in hindsight is just making unnecessary noise.

In the end I say congratulations to the coaches and players and thanks for your effort to get where we got and it's excellent to see us get some finals experience.

There will always be mistakes in selections by every club and always be errors made by umpires.

[Otiman]

Cordy is depth, can't see him taking FB position as first choice.

Adams and Van Es are more likely to succeed in that role.

Can see Van Es being a Harris Andrews type.

[Otiman]

Also people forget we had the least scores against for the season, our back 6 and out FB was a big part of that.

[saintsRrising]

Also people forget we had the least scores against for the season, our back 6 and out FB was a big part of that.

Not sure that is that relevant to discussion of whether Howard or Cordy is best for FB? Plus Cordy has only played games there late in the season.

I think one thing that the Final did quite clearly show is that if Wilkie is not in his normal role and is playing as a stopper only on small that our backline does not as a whole function as well as well as when Wilkie is playing in the role that won him AA selection.


So whether is is Howard or Cordy on a tall forward they both need Wilkie there in his normal role.


No Wilkie certainly exposed Cordy, and we saw the Cordy that so many Dog's fans were complaining about when Cordy was there.

[B.M]

Van Es has a long way to go - even at VFL level

Don’t count your chickens there

Adams should be delisted

Cordy is a C/D grade defender- back up at best
Howard is B/C grade and fks up a lot

[Scollop]

I'd rather have Howard for most games. Cordy should only come in when Howard is injured and doctors categorically rule him out.

I think in general our 3 key position defenders struggled to contain their talls. GWS have some serious tall timber.

Their midfielders in Callaghan and Tom Greene are both 6'3". That's the same size as Josh Battle and Cal Wilkie

They had Hogan, Riccardi, Brown, Keefe, and Briggs as forward targets at times. Wouldn't have been a crazy idea to maybe play them both yesterday

I think we'll learn from this game that you can't experiment during finals. Wilkie needs to play on a KPF, and not on hybrid mids like Dusty, De Goey or Toby Greene. Our structures may have suffered.

I also think Dougall has been an integral part of the backline and we should back him in. He needs some coaching and he needs to focus on his strengths and be supported like any other bloke playing their role in the side.

[wally]

Interestingly last night Ross was on Fox 360 and said if they had more time to deal with Membrey out / hindsight they should have brought Dougal back in and put Cordy forward

[Otiman]

I dont think Van Es will be a gorilla type FB. IMO he's a Harris Andrews or Alex Rance type.

[Otiman]

Interestingly last night Ross was on Fox 360 and said if they had more time to deal with Membrey out / hindsight they should have brought Dougal back in and put Cordy forward

Ross should have joined me at the pub before the match then. We would have had that sorted.

[Saints58]

Its not a argument Cordy is so much better in reading the play less turnovers and has a good mark on him.
But lets just change the narrative Cordy and Dougal as KPD with battle as a floating defender taking intercept marks could work and would be better against the bigger forwards. Take more pressure off Battle to play that Key Defensive role and be free to play natural game he is a bit small for a KPD.

[Otiman]

Cordy is not a 1 on 1 KPD player, and we shouldn't play him that way. Howard is, and we should.

They are not like for like.

Cordy has a 1v1 defensive contest loss rate of 30% over his career. Elite is 12-15% and Good is 20%.

[shanegrambeau]

One striking thing I noticed as a member of the crowd and not a TV watcher on Saturday was that the defenders ‘stand space’..they do not try to run shoulders or ‘man up’ with a forward.

I was stunned.

But that’s the way it is played I figured.

Whether they are standing 10 or 15m behind or in front of a forward, or whether they were just marking territory due to some pre determined ‘map’ of the ground I do not know.

This means I can’t tell what an ‘intercept’ defender is really anymore as opposed to a lock down

[B.M]

Players only play shoulder at CB

Full ground defence has been around for 20 years

Zoning is not new - all teams do it - even AFLW

[Vortex]

Adams and Van Es are more likely to succeed in that role.

Crickey, surely you are being funny, not even VFL level at this stage.

[Otiman]

A bit less likely for Adams given we just delisted him.