When the game was there to be won…

[saint6709]

Good on the Tiges.

Made all the right decisions and cleaned up with three flags.

Meanwhile we dicked around at Seaford with half-arsed draft picks and clueless nice guy coaches.

Those were not half arse draft picks.
Petracca & Bontempelli together would have won this game.
When you have low draft picks and waste them you sentence the club to over a decade of failure.

The catalyst of where it all went tits up was the 2014 draft. We had two first round picks (including pick 1) and fluffed them both.

That was the draft we HAD to get right. When you have pick 1, that has to be an instrumental part of your rebuild. It is not a pick you gamble.

Getting that so wrong in such spectacular fashion alone has lead to another decade of failure.

Agree

[D.B.Cooper]

Good on the Tiges.

Made all the right decisions and cleaned up with three flags.

Meanwhile we dicked around at Seaford with half-arsed draft picks and clueless nice guy coaches.

Those were not half arse draft picks.
Petracca & Bontempelli together would have won this game.
When you have low draft picks and waste them you sentence the club to over a decade of failure.

I agree with the McCartin debacle, it seemed the only club in the competition that didn't rate Petracca #1 was us, but I don't understand why people continue to reference Bont V Billings. Billings was clearly rated #3 in his draft, Bont was a smokey at #4. Billings career stacks up favorably to the majority of top 5 picks over the past 10 years.

In 2016 we took Ben Long at #26 and Sahi Bolton went at #29.
This is just as relevant as the Bont V Billings argument yet I don't see this posted regularly.

If we drill down the Gallagher years you will really see our issues.
Over paying for Hill, Jones, drafting a raft of mature agers who (all bar Wilkie) are gone.
Incredible that the only mature ager remaining was the rookie, while the draft picks such as Young, Hind, Parker are long gone.

Had we not had the NGA players to fall back on, Gallagher would be as revered as Pelchen for his lack of competence IMO.

[Otiman]

Criticizing not picking Petracca is fine in hindsight. But not in context.

We had 1 KPF player under 30 (Josh Bruce, 4 goals the previous year) when we went to the McCartin/Petracca draft. I don't buy the 'character' issues with Petracca, but if you throw that in as a layer of doubt, the decision makes itself.

The next available after our 2nd pick was Dougal Howard at pick 50 something (we also passed on him to pick Jack Lonie at 41). Our second pick was also Hugh Goddard.

The List: https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2014/st-kilda
The Draft: https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2014

[lewdogs]

Good on the Tiges.

Made all the right decisions and cleaned up with three flags.

Meanwhile we dicked around at Seaford with half-arsed draft picks and clueless nice guy coaches.

Those were not half arse draft picks.
Petracca & Bontempelli together would have won this game.
When you have low draft picks and waste them you sentence the club to over a decade of failure.

The catalyst of where it all went tits up was the 2014 draft. We had two first round picks (including pick 1) and fluffed them both.

That was the draft we HAD to get right. When you have pick 1, that has to be an instrumental part of your rebuild. It is not a pick you gamble.

Getting that so wrong in such spectacular fashion alone has lead to another decade of failure.

Obviously Petracca would have been the better choice, but I think we saw last year how good McCartin would have been. He absolutely dominated for Sydney off half back and was a huge part of them making the grand final. He was in All Australian form for much of the year.

Sometimes you get bad luck. If Paddy hadn't had the concussions I've no doubt he would have ended up a very good player for us.

[SydneySainter]

Good on the Tiges.

Made all the right decisions and cleaned up with three flags.

Meanwhile we dicked around at Seaford with half-arsed draft picks and clueless nice guy coaches.

Those were not half arse draft picks.
Petracca & Bontempelli together would have won this game.
When you have low draft picks and waste them you sentence the club to over a decade of failure.

The catalyst of where it all went tits up was the 2014 draft. We had two first round picks (including pick 1) and fluffed them both.

That was the draft we HAD to get right. When you have pick 1, that has to be an instrumental part of your rebuild. It is not a pick you gamble.

Getting that so wrong in such spectacular fashion alone has lead to another decade of failure.

Obviously Petracca would have been the better choice, but I think we saw last year how good McCartin would have been. He absolutely dominated for Sydney off half back and was a huge part of them making the grand final. He was in All Australian form for much of the year.

Sometimes you get bad luck. If Paddy hadn't had the concussions I've no doubt he would have ended up a very good player for us.

Exactly my point. Petracca was the no-brainer, Paddy a gamble and you don’t gamble pick 1.

[SydneySainter]

Criticizing not picking Petracca is fine in hindsight. But not in context.

We had 1 KPF player under 30 (Josh Bruce, 4 goals the previous year) when we went to the McCartin/Petracca draft. I don't buy the 'character' issues with Petracca, but if you throw that in as a layer of doubt, the decision makes itself.

The next available after our 2nd pick was Dougal Howard at pick 50 something (we also passed on him to pick Jack Lonie at 41). Our second pick was also Hugh Goddard.

The List: https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2014/st-kilda
The Draft: https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2014

There is nothing hindsight about it. When you have pick 1, you pick THE best available player.

Paddy may have been considered the best tall forward prospect at the draft, but he was a gamble at pick 1 and that’s the pick that needs to be instrumental in your rebuild, not one you roll the dice on.

[Otiman]

I don't know if you were following then but there was a bloke about to retire called Nick Riewoldt, with no forward line in sight and no replacement in sight.

Petracca was considered the better of the two, but it wasn't much more than a coin flip.

People make it out like McCartin was going to go 2nd round if we didn't pick him.

[lewdogs]

Good on the Tiges.

Made all the right decisions and cleaned up with three flags.

Meanwhile we dicked around at Seaford with half-arsed draft picks and clueless nice guy coaches.

Those were not half arse draft picks.
Petracca & Bontempelli together would have won this game.
When you have low draft picks and waste them you sentence the club to over a decade of failure.

The catalyst of where it all went tits up was the 2014 draft. We had two first round picks (including pick 1) and fluffed them both.

That was the draft we HAD to get right. When you have pick 1, that has to be an instrumental part of your rebuild. It is not a pick you gamble.

Getting that so wrong in such spectacular fashion alone has lead to another decade of failure.

Obviously Petracca would have been the better choice, but I think we saw last year how good McCartin would have been. He absolutely dominated for Sydney off half back and was a huge part of them making the grand final. He was in All Australian form for much of the year.

Sometimes you get bad luck. If Paddy hadn't had the concussions I've no doubt he would have ended up a very good player for us.

Exactly my point. Petracca was the no-brainer, Paddy a gamble and you don’t gamble pick 1.

Yeah but if McCartin had become a gun for us it wouldn't hurt as much.

[Scollop]

Yeah but if McCartin had become a gun for us it wouldn't hurt as much.

The following scenario below was as likely as the one you describe in your post above

If Scott Watters was a premiership coach for St Kilda we wouldn't have had to put up with 6 years of mediocrity under Alan Richardson

[SydneySainter]

Yeah but if McCartin had become a gun for us it wouldn't hurt as much.

The following scenario below was as likely as the one you describe in your post above

If Scott Watters was a premiership coach for St Kilda we wouldn't have had to put up with 6 years of mediocrity under Alan Richardson

Precisely. What could have been had it worked is irrelevant because it doesn’t change the fact it was a conscious gamble with a hand you don’t gamble with.

With drafting and trades, there are hands you take risks on and hands that you just don’t consciously compromise- especially when you just won the wooden spoon.

[lewdogs]

Yeah but if McCartin had become a gun for us it wouldn't hurt as much.

The following scenario below was as likely as the one you describe in your post above

If Scott Watters was a premiership coach for St Kilda we wouldn't have had to put up with 6 years of mediocrity under Alan Richardson

Nah, I disagree with that. I think we saw last year that McCartin is a gun footballer. Honestly that season has put me a lot more at ease about our error. Yes we should have taken Petracca but Paddy was a great player, just very unlucky with the head knocks which is something we couldn't have predicted.

I don't think there's any sign that Watters was a good coach.

[SydneySainter]

Yeah but if McCartin had become a gun for us it wouldn't hurt as much.

The following scenario below was as likely as the one you describe in your post above

If Scott Watters was a premiership coach for St Kilda we wouldn't have had to put up with 6 years of mediocrity under Alan Richardson

Nah, I disagree with that. I think we saw last year that McCartin is a gun footballer. Honestly that season has put me a lot more at ease about our error. Yes we should have taken Petracca but Paddy was a great player, just very unlucky with the head knocks which is something we couldn't have predicted.

I don't think there's any sign that Watters was a good coach.

He may have been in career best form, but in no way has his form suggested he warranted his selection.

There is no question Paddy had the potential to be a very good footballer, but the type of player we needed him to be at pick 1 when the list was on its knees, he was never going to be that player and you don’t need hindsight to tell you that. It was just Trout trying to outsmart the draft when he panicking over the Boyd deal and Richo, Finnis and co not being brave enough to stop him, even though they knew it was a BIG call.

It’s that selection which has been one of the catalysts as to why we’re still in football wilderness.

Watters is interesting, only that I remember this forum during his first year. Quite a few on here seemed to think he was doing something right.

[Saint2]

Yeah but if McCartin had become a gun for us it wouldn't hurt as much.

The following scenario below was as likely as the one you describe in your post above

If Scott Watters was a premiership coach for St Kilda we wouldn't have had to put up with 6 years of mediocrity under Alan Richardson

Nah, I disagree with that. I think we saw last year that McCartin is a gun footballer. Honestly that season has put me a lot more at ease about our error. Yes we should have taken Petracca but Paddy was a great player, just very unlucky with the head knocks which is something we couldn't have predicted.

I don't think there's any sign that Watters was a good coach.

He may have been in career best form, but in no way has his form suggested he warranted his selection.

There is no question Paddy had the potential to be a very good footballer, but the type of player we needed him to be at pick 1 when the list was on its knees, he was never going to be that player and you don’t need hindsight to tell you that. It was just Trout trying to outsmart the draft when he panicking over the Boyd deal and Richo, Finnis and co not being brave enough to stop him, even though they knew it was a BIG call.

It’s that selection which has been one of the catalysts as to why we’re still in football wilderness.

Watters is interesting, only that I remember this forum during his first year. Quite a few on here seemed to think he was doing something right.

Paddy was a very good prospect cut down with head injuries, and I do remember at the time of his recruitment, that many then were saying get midfielders, but anyway it didn't happen. Couldn't really say how Watters would have gone in the longer term- got destabilised from the top when wanted to make some big changes. I know he was popular with the younger players, but a few older guys still had Lyon hangover.

[Scollop]

Yeah but if McCartin had become a gun for us it wouldn't hurt as much.

The following scenario below was as likely as the one you describe in your post above

If Scott Watters was a premiership coach for St Kilda we wouldn't have had to put up with 6 years of mediocrity under Alan Richardson

Nah, I disagree with that. I think we saw last year that McCartin is a gun footballer. Honestly that season has put me a lot more at ease about our error. Yes we should have taken Petracca but Paddy was a great player, just very unlucky with the head knocks which is something we couldn't have predicted.

I don't think there's any sign that Watters was a good coach.

He may have been in career best form, but in no way has his form suggested he warranted his selection.

There is no question Paddy had the potential to be a very good footballer, but the type of player we needed him to be at pick 1 when the list was on its knees, he was never going to be that player and you don’t need hindsight to tell you that. It was just Trout trying to outsmart the draft when he panicking over the Boyd deal and Richo, Finnis and co not being brave enough to stop him, even though they knew it was a BIG call.

It’s that selection which has been one of the catalysts as to why we’re still in football wilderness.

Watters is interesting, only that I remember this forum during his first year. Quite a few on here seemed to think he was doing something right.

I thanked your post for your opinions on Paddy and not about your closing thoughts on Watters

The only reason I brought Watters into the conversation was because lewdogs and others keep talking about hypotheticals.

Paddy McCartin was never worthy of the number 1 pick for the National draft because he didn't test at the combine and he didn't play a full year at under 18 level. Surely all young kids need to show durability and resilience to be worthy of a top 2 or 3 pick

He had a pre existing health concern which firstly prevented him from training at the required level and also restricted him when he got head knocks.

He had diabetes and it affected his recovery and may still be affecting him. He took longer than other players to recover and he looks like he may have played his last game at the level.

He got concussion prior to getting drafted and he had problems with recovery which he and his doctor claimed was due to his type 1 diabetes. Wtf were we thinking? Cho and the board and the CEO or someone should have overruled Trout.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/101285/goin ... his-tracks