Hinkley says that saints poor treatment of Ratts didn't surprise him.

[Templar]

There's a video of a Wilkie presser maybe a month ago.

http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?t=105511

The most telling thing from that presser was a reference he made - about half way through - to everyone having buy in and being on the same page. Next sentence he said there was division in the group previously. A telling reference to the dysfunction in the coaching group and players in the last half of last year. He's hardly going to go into detail, but to me that was clear evidence from the horse's mouth that Ratten had lost a chunk of the playing group.

I’m yet to see or hear any clear evidence.

What is clear St.byron; is that you personally had a view last year around the time that it was announced that Brett Ratten had received a contract renewal, and that you (and other posters here on saintsational and influential ex St Kilda people including Roo and GT) were against the decision made by Lethlean and Finnis. The narrative hasn’t changed

I disagree that Ratten had lost a ‘chunk of the playing group’. The Wilkie presser doesn’t prove anything.

The pressure will mount once the season proper is in full swing. Let’s see how united the coaches will be when Lyon starts blaming them for some of our losses. Let’s see how positive the vibe and atmosphere will be if Lyon starts going ballistic at some of his players.

What do you think will happen in 2023 if Higgins and Butler and Billings keep getting games and not performing, and you have the likes of Ollie Hotton and Peris playing at Sandy? Or…what do you think the young talls will be feeling if Cordy and Campbell are preferred and they are not contributing or helping the team with wins on the board?

How do you think Bytel and Stocker will feel if Crouch and Ross get 70%+ of game time in the middle and Bytel and Stocker only get a handful of games (i.e limited opportunities to gain consistency) and when they do play they get less than 50% game time in the centre and at stoppages?

I think there’s always some division within a large playing list and that is healthy for competition for spots.

Can't wait. Bring it on already!

[CQ SAINT]

Was the divide because Ratten was sacked, or because of something else?

Do you know how to interpret what someone says do you?

I'm just a dude on a forum, but I spoke to Wilkie and Bytel directly and both thought the new beginning was a revelation and there had been a dramatic change in player buy in. Wilkie mentioned that previously players were self pacing their pre season, raising his palms and brow, in disbelief.

[sunsaint]

its fun sitting back reading reports this time 'of year
they always seem to echo the familiar tunes of the players "look" great ( probably due to their lovely bronzed bodies)
and they are busting their guts on the track, a bit sloppy but look good, player X is really going to make an impact this year etc ...

I tend to land near scallops point of view that there probably was some fracture in the playing group, but seriously if Wilkie wanted to point the finger at the coach what would hold him back ? Ratten is gone - just come out same the coach lost the players
He didnt

If I was to give an example of some fracture how about the holidays for "mental issues" granted to a few players - some may see that as preferential treatment. Maybe there was an issue with some players cruising along just happy to receive a paycheck - who really knows?

I have no doubt the current "vibe" at the club is bouyant - we finally have some really talented and eager kids that want to grab their chance sooner rather than wait their turn - and that gives everyone a massive incentive both old and new to earn their spot on the playing list
These kids is where I think ( and hope given opportunity) the bulk of our rise up the ladder in the coming years will come from.

oh PS I am reminded of the time during Lyons' tenure with the playing group split between favourite seniors that would always get selected while some real standout performances in the VFL group werent rewarded with promotion. Pretty certain Roo was made aware of the senior playing group showing little support/contact with the VFL list. Including talented kids starved of development

[st.byron]

The division he was referring to was division between coaches last year and we all know from tony74’s posts in July that McGlynn and Lade were on the nose and on the way out.

Byron has gone as far as saying that Ratts had 'lost a chunk of the playing group'

That is a long stretch to extrapolate from a media interview that was all about Wilkie being positive about the year ahead......

You don't know for sure that was the division Wilkie was referring to any more than I know for sure it was in the playing group.
Seems logical to me that if a member of the player's leadership group says that it's different this year coz everyone's on the same page and they weren't last year that the players would be involved in that division he's referring to.

Wilkie's presser only served to underline what seemed clear to me last year anyway....that all was not well. We played like a team divided.
Yes for sure I was pretty certain we were going nowhere under Ratten and was really pissed off when he was extended. Was super glad when he was sacked and am very happy with all the changes made.

Regarding your questions about what if etc etc etc...I have no idea. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

What does seem apparent is that there's a much more vibrant energy at the club and that standards and expectations are higher. Am really hoping that translates into us being a way better team....

[st.byron]

...... but seriously if Wilkie wanted to point the finger at the coach what would hold him back ? Ratten is gone - just come out same the coach lost the players
He didnt

Wilkie has more class than that. Would be poor form to publicly directly diss Ratten.

[shanegrambeau]

...... but seriously if Wilkie wanted to point the finger at the coach what would hold him back ? Ratten is gone - just come out same the coach lost the players
He didnt

Wilkie has more class than that. Would be poor form to publicly directly diss Ratten.

Agree about Wilkie ‘class’ or whatever it should be called.

BUT! The correlate of this is that the players must have been savage on Ratten and co. In that review.

It was a short review..short ‘n savage.

I thought reviews were window dressing, but this time a bomb went through that window.

[Scollop]

What does seem apparent is that there's a much more vibrant energy at the club and that standards and expectations are higher. Am really hoping that translates into us being a way better team....

So...we must have been lucky that we beat some good teams in the first half of 2022 after such a poor preseason. Must have been a miracle that we were 8-3

If all components/pillars at the football club, including the coaching group are united, it will hold us in good stead

It would be good if people stop comparing how 'well' we are doing under the new coach until the season proper gets underway

It would be even better if they stopped bagging the ex coach. Skeptic and a few others have pondered whether we'd have even sacked Ratten if we made finals last year.

From now on, I'll try to ignore a lot of posts when statements are made without substance or evidence

[CQ SAINT]

What does seem apparent is that there's a much more vibrant energy at the club and that standards and expectations are higher. Am really hoping that translates into us being a way better team....

So...we must have been lucky that we beat some good teams in the first half of 2022 after such a poor preseason. Must have been a miracle that we were 8-3

If all components/pillars at the football club, including the coaching group are united, it will hold us in good stead

It would be good if people stop comparing how 'well' we are doing under the new coach until the season proper gets underway

It would be even better if they stopped bagging the ex coach. Skeptic and a few others have pondered whether we'd have even sacked Ratten if we made finals last year.

From now on, I'll try to ignore a lot of posts when statements are made without substance or evidence

We should probably tell the club not to bother with pre season at all then. Or just let the players decide what they should do themselves.

[Scollop]

You can't do that

If we let players decide what they should do themselves, they might have got rid of Ross Lyon after his first year in 2007

[shanegrambeau]

The best thing about ‘22 was that we were ripping fit at the start of the season and ran out games so well in the first month.

[shanegrambeau]

The best thing about ‘22 was that we were ripping fit at the start of the season and ran out games so well in the first month.

[CQ SAINT]

Fitness wasn't the issue though was it. Might have been skill and discipline? Maybe? Not sure that would cause a division based on selection would it, the apparent pressure to play high payed players who were injuried and out of form was apparent from Richo and Rattens time, why? because Billings, Gresham Coffield and Clark never been able to get it together at anytime, and when we most need him, McCartin is playing key defence for Sydney.

Process before personnel.

[Templar]

The best thing about ‘22 was that we were ripping fit at the start of the season and ran out games so well in the first month.

IMO if the game tactic is to run over teams by out running them, intercepting and tackling (a la the Alves era) then I think it has to be done for four full quarters. Partly because if the team takes the brake pedal off for five minutes and then gets punished on the score board it would be very deflating after all of the previous effort.

For a low skilled side the tactic can definitely work. I remember game after game in the Alves era where scores were tight mid third quarter and as a barracker I would be relaxed because I knew we would out run the opposition in the last. Run them into the ground. My memory tells me that this happened game after game.

We kind of had this style going last year but not for four quarters.

The run over them style requires the coach/es to get the players up before each quarter and keep them gut running for essentially the full duration.

[shanegrambeau]

The best thing about ‘22 was that we were ripping fit at the start of the season and ran out games so well in the first month.

IMO if the game tactic is to run over teams by out running them, intercepting and tackling (a la the Alves era) then I think it has to be done for four full quarters. Partly because if the team takes the brake pedal off for five minutes and then gets punished on the score board it would be very deflating after all of the previous effort.

For a low skilled side the tactic can definitely work. I remember game after game in the Alves era where scores were tight mid third quarter and as a barracker I would be relaxed because I knew we would out run the opposition in the last. Run them into the ground. My memory tells me that this happened game after game.

We kind of had this style going last year but not for four quarters.

The run over them style requires the coach/es to get the players up before each quarter and keep them gut running for essentially the full duration.

Yes, it definitely seems like the light at the top of the lighthouse started to flicker and go dull during the season, and somewhere between the triumph over Geelong and the diabolical BS of the Essendon game. Those last few wins before the bye against lowly teams and perhaps they camouflaged the cracks in the mind-set. By the time we were approaching the end, against the Bulldgs etc., it was all over and we were the ones getting completely stomped all over.

A curious thing about last season was the extraordinary number of chances we were lucky to have that kept us in the calculations due to the fall of the results in other games. But even that ...the incredible luck was not enough to arrest the decline. Of course, at the very death, there is a sign of life, as there often is - to out anguish.

[Teflon]

I never do this.
GT is right.
Fork off Ken deflection from your under performing

[shanegrambeau]

I think as someone said, Hinks and Thommo have history.

Hinkley was coached by Blight for those years when Geelong, not unlike the Saints of ‘04 perhaps, made it to several GFs.

Then later, an assistant to Blight with us?

But still it seems incredible GT is so blatant.
I was asking myself, am I missing some subtle irony here? An inside joke perhaps?

I wonder what some of those 137 replies have to say?

[saynta]

I think as someone said, Hinks and Thommo have history.

Hinkley was coached by Blight for those years when Geelong, not unlike the Saints of ‘04 perhaps, made it to several GFs.

Then later, an assistant to Blight with us?

But still it seems incredible GT is so blatant.
I was asking myself, am I missing some subtle irony here? An inside joke perhaps?

I wonder what some of those 137 replies have to say?

Easy to find out. Just click on the link.