5 key players who must and can improve.

[SaintJohno]

Agreed, if he was the 3rd forward behind 2 guns our forward line would be very competitive. Unfortunately, necessity has seen him all over the ground. He's a good leader and has been a great Sainter.

[Impatient Sainter]

I’m somewhat miffed with the Membrey commentary

I think he’s an outright champion

I agree, the issue is he has been asked to play as a 2nd or 3rd tall rather than the highly talented medium forward he really is. When he gets a match up of similiar size to himself he excels, its when he has much taller opponents is when he struggles.

[Teflon]

Teflon, I believed your actual issue with Billings was his salary. Once his salary was reduced to a more realistic view then his output was commensurate.

I've really never understood this perception of not rating a player's worth and then expecting a greater gain.

Billings, Clark and Coffield have all suffered from:

1) Better players following them in the draft
2) Injuries and continuity
3) Coaching and subsequent game changes
4) Development at its lowest point for an AFL Club

When people request these trades, what is it they genuinely expect in return?

Tim Membrey is an example of an excellent trade / pick up. A third forward who has played as a #1 forward but the majority as a #2 at an extremely high standard. He cannot be blamed for a poor forward line, he should be celebrated for what he brings to our F50 but is becoming a quintessential Saintsational scapegoat.

No that’s incorrect
Salary ought to be commensurate with output
Billing’s output didn’t match his salary so he tested the market….got a reality check and took a haircut..
My issue wasn’t money it was his inability to reach the ceiling we’d obviously drafted him for.
My sole hope was the club would do a Swans….realise this early before the market and sell while he had reputation…that’s gone now he’s a good player on his day now…
Tim Membrey - zero to B do with scapegoats?? Who gives a flying toss about that???
Both he and Billings when I suggested trading was purely so the club could ideally get decent picks to re-boot from.
We’d spent 10years?? In the wilderness and 2020 was just a false dawn …why?? Cause we don’t have the talent to challenge top 4 seriously
I could care less now about being attached to players nowadays ….get what you can to improve to get a cup
Sometimes you have to savvy and offload something of worth..
Before people say “oh yeah but sell Membrey and we won’t be a destination club..” blah blah…last time we were a destination club was on the back of gun kids coming through the draft
Yes…you have to draft well but for small clubs like ours I see little alternative
Anyway all moot now …Membrey and Billings not worth much on open market…may as well hold and see what we can salvage..

[Teflon]

I’m somewhat miffed with the Membrey commentary

I think he’s an outright champion

I agree, the issue is he has been asked to play as a 2nd or 3rd tall rather than the highly talented medium forward he really is. When he gets a match up of similiar size to himself he excels, its when he has much taller opponents is when he struggles.

That may be true but the original point was - at a previous point in time- could you sell him and get a return on picks to snag an A grader kid …clearly not now
Tim’s ok
I’d take Bailey Fritz in a heartbeat over him

[B.M]

Bailey Fritz - seriously

Put him in our team, he’d be a hack. Beneficiary of a dominant midfield. I’ll go and check the numbers, but I’m pretty sure Tim has him covered

Another underrated player is Tim , rarely has a quiet game
Is an elite contested mark.

BTW
He has always played as a medium tall

Had Riewoldt, Bruce, King, Marshall throughout his entire career so far

As a medium/hybrid averages
13 possessions
6 marks (1.3 contested)
1.7 goals
0.5 goal assists
1.5 tackles

Over a 150 game career (257 goals)

That’s a solid career - not too many medium forwards in the AFL have those numbers - and he plays for an average team.

[Teflon]

Bailey Fritz - seriously

Put him in our team, he’d be a hack. Beneficiary of a dominant midfield. I’ll go and check the numbers, but I’m pretty sure Tim has him covered

Another underrated player is Tim , rarely has a quiet game
Is an elite contested mark.

BTW
He has always played as a medium tall

Had Riewoldt, Bruce, King, Marshall throughout his entire career so far

As a medium/hybrid averages
13 possessions
6 marks (1.3 contested)
1.7 goals
0.5 goal assists
1.5 tackles

Over a 150 game career (257 goals)

That’s a solid career - not too many medium forwards in the AFL have those numbers - and he plays for an average team.

I think you should change your Nic from BM to BS
Once again the topic IS NOT is Tim Membrey a good player(he’s an ok No superstar only to one eyed Saint drongos )
The TOPIC was a point in time discussion on whether trading Tim at a time when his value may have yielded more for the team than what he did onfield.
Had I ever been able to secure a high 2nd for Tim….he’d be gone imo as the side with him in it for the last 10-12 years has been treading water
You keep arguing your player stats and leave the grown ups to have an adult chat on how we actually might get near a top 4 side before we all drop dead…
Oh and surely there’s nothing for you to run to mods again over is there “BM”??

[Scollop]

I’m somewhat miffed with the Membrey commentary

I think he’s an outright champion

I agree, the issue is he has been asked to play as a 2nd or 3rd tall rather than the highly talented medium forward he really is. When he gets a match up of similiar size to himself he excels, its when he has much taller opponents is when he struggles.

That may be true but the original point was - at a previous point in time- could you sell him and get a return on picks to snag an A grader kid …clearly not now
Tim’s ok
I’d take Bailey Fritz in a heartbeat over him

Bailey Fritz - seriously

Put him in our team, he’d be a hack. Beneficiary of a dominant midfield. I’ll go and check the numbers, but I’m pretty sure Tim has him covered

Another underrated player is Tim , rarely has a quiet game
Is an elite contested mark.

BTW
He has always played as a medium tall

Had Riewoldt, Bruce, King, Marshall throughout his entire career so far

As a medium/hybrid averages
13 possessions
6 marks (1.3 contested)
1.7 goals
0.5 goal assists
1.5 tackles

Over a 150 game career (257 goals)

That’s a solid career - not too many medium forwards in the AFL have those numbers - and he plays for an average team.

I think you should change your Nic from BM to BS
Once again the topic IS NOT is Tim Membrey a good player(he’s an ok No superstar only to one eyed Saint drongos )
The TOPIC was a point in time discussion on whether trading Tim at a time when his value may have yielded more for the team than what he did onfield.
Had I ever been able to secure a high 2nd for Tim….he’d be gone imo as the side with him in it for the last 10-12 years has been treading water
You keep arguing your player stats and leave the grown ups to have an adult chat on how we actually might get near a top 4 side before we all drop dead…
Oh and surely there’s nothing for you to run to mods again over is there “BM”??

https://memes.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/4f20 ... 3c98f0/gif

What are you gunna come up with next Teflon? Jake Bowey over Hunter Clark

By the way… I think Fritz is gifted…as in he’s gifted most of his goals…he gets the footy handed to him on a platter.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=C&fid2=C

[Teflon]

I’m somewhat miffed with the Membrey commentary

I think he’s an outright champion

I agree, the issue is he has been asked to play as a 2nd or 3rd tall rather than the highly talented medium forward he really is. When he gets a match up of similiar size to himself he excels, its when he has much taller opponents is when he struggles.

That may be true but the original point was - at a previous point in time- could you sell him and get a return on picks to snag an A grader kid …clearly not now
Tim’s ok
I’d take Bailey Fritz in a heartbeat over him

Bailey Fritz - seriously

Put him in our team, he’d be a hack. Beneficiary of a dominant midfield. I’ll go and check the numbers, but I’m pretty sure Tim has him covered

Another underrated player is Tim , rarely has a quiet game
Is an elite contested mark.

BTW
He has always played as a medium tall

Had Riewoldt, Bruce, King, Marshall throughout his entire career so far

As a medium/hybrid averages
13 possessions
6 marks (1.3 contested)
1.7 goals
0.5 goal assists
1.5 tackles

Over a 150 game career (257 goals)

That’s a solid career - not too many medium forwards in the AFL have those numbers - and he plays for an average team.

I think you should change your Nic from BM to BS
Once again the topic IS NOT is Tim Membrey a good player(he’s an ok No superstar only to one eyed Saint drongos )
The TOPIC was a point in time discussion on whether trading Tim at a time when his value may have yielded more for the team than what he did onfield.
Had I ever been able to secure a high 2nd for Tim….he’d be gone imo as the side with him in it for the last 10-12 years has been treading water
You keep arguing your player stats and leave the grown ups to have an adult chat on how we actually might get near a top 4 side before we all drop dead…
Oh and surely there’s nothing for you to run to mods again over is there “BM”??

https://memes.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/4f20 ... 3c98f0/gif

What are you gunna come up with next Teflon? Jake Bowey over Hunter Clark

By the way… I think Fritz is gifted…as in he’s gifted most of his goals…he gets the footy handed to him on a platter.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=C&fid2=C

Geez a Hunter Clark (who the club dangled for Trade last year) worshipper
What is with these Saints drop kicks going all fanboy over certain players who in the scheme of the comp are just OK??
First Membrey is better than Fritz cause “Fritz just plays in a good team” (how lane is that horsy chestnut??)
Now Hunter Clark is your example of Saints star studded quality??
Ah well….I suppose when you have 1 flag in 150 years you gotta expect a bit of wallowing in a mediocre fanboy shallow pool.. carry on

[Scollop]

Wallowing? I’m not the one bagging all our players

Don’t worry Teflon. Have faith in your convictions. We have RTB now and Hunter and several others will be stars soon

[Ghost Like]

Teflon, whilst I am a big supporter of improving our list, the part of your argument I struggle with is that if supporters, such as yourself, identify a player as not cutting it, then why would another club pay "potential A grade" rates for said player? It's not as if we are lucky enough to trade with St Kilda.

More (possible) A graders come to our club via 3 ways:

Trading out our older players via a fire sale ala Hawthorn

Via FA or RFA (we cannot afford to trade out high draft picks)

A slow burn like we are in

Players like Billings, Membrey and Clark would not have got us what you crave. They remain with us and it is up to them how they wish to be remembered. Membrey is already thought of fondly. Billings and Clark both need a decent run at it but both their best football make both best 22.

[Banger9798]

Completely don't understand the criticism of Membrey. He is a terrific player.
Whenever I watch games with oppo supporters, they all rave about him.

[Vortex]

What is it with these Saints drop kicks going all fanboy over


Wallowing in a mediocre fanboy shallow pool

Sharman, aka Coopsy


Sheez Teffers you are like a fly hopping around on a 3 day old turd.

[saynta]

Is Membrey a good player?

Of course he is.

[spert]

What I hope Lyon will bring, is an improvement in overall team performance- especially consistency. Some of our bad or unexpected losses in the last year or two, was due to the team as a whole not having a real crack at the contest. Sure we want certain players to step up, but I feel that we expect more than they can deliver.

[saynta]

Bailey Fritz - seriously

Put him in our team, he’d be a hack. Beneficiary of a dominant midfield. I’ll go and check the numbers, but I’m pretty sure Tim has him covered

Another underrated player is Tim , rarely has a quiet game
Is an elite contested mark.

BTW
He has always played as a medium tall

Had Riewoldt, Bruce, King, Marshall throughout his entire career so far

As a medium/hybrid averages
13 possessions
6 marks (1.3 contested)
1.7 goals
0.5 goal assists
1.5 tackles

Over a 150 game career (257 goals)

That’s a solid career - not too many medium forwards in the AFL have those numbers - and he plays for an average team.

There is so much bulls*** posted on here as fact it makes me what to throw up. When did we last win when we traded out good players. Never, that's when. f****** never

[saynta]

Wallowing? I’m not the one bagging all our players

Don’t worry Teflon. Have faith in your convictions. We have RTB now and Hunter and several others will be stars soon

[Teflon]

Wallowing? I’m not the one bagging all our players

Don’t worry Teflon. Have faith in your convictions. We have RTB now and Hunter and several others will be stars soon

I think the club have made some good “must” calls in recent times.
I’m prepared to back them when I think they get it right - as opposed to constantly bagging them
You do you.
No one’s bagging players to discuss trades
That’s just more boorish old Saints propaganda putting individuals on pedestals above the team/club
I’m over that
I’d finish with smiley emojis but I see your little gimp Is following you round like a puppy so shall desist

[Teflon]

What is it with these Saints drop kicks going all fanboy over


Wallowing in a mediocre fanboy shallow pool

Sharman, aka Coopsy


Sheez Teffers you are like a fly hopping around on a 3 day old turd.

Is it fanboy to suggest it might take longer than 7 games to say Sharman is a bust like you have called him???
There’s fanboy and blatant stupidity…you pick where you sit

[Teflon]

Teflon, whilst I am a big supporter of improving our list, the part of your argument I struggle with is that if supporters, such as yourself, identify a player as not cutting it, then why would another club pay "potential A grade" rates for said player? It's not as if we are lucky enough to trade with St Kilda.

More (possible) A graders come to our club via 3 ways:

Trading out our older players via a fire sale ala Hawthorn

Via FA or RFA (we cannot afford to trade out high draft picks)

A slow burn like we are in

Players like Billings, Membrey and Clark would not have got us what you crave. They remain with us and it is up to them how they wish to be remembered. Membrey is already thought of fondly. Billings and Clark both need a decent run at it but both their best football make both best 22.

What you miss is that what one club doesn’t need at a point in time may not be the same elsewhere
Membrey, at the time I did suggest trading, (have to laugh at the numpties now jumping in because they think Tim is under attack …lol) had value IMO on the open market (he was younger too)
He doesn’t now so we have to hold
Not all clubs get it right in evaluating a players worth so selling high isn’t new and I don’t agree with your assertion that it can’t be done
You can astutely Trade to improve your list - Swans have done it historically
Anyhow moot now Tim and Billings are B graders who stay and we hope have A day’s occasionally

[Teflon]

What I hope Lyon will bring, is an improvement in overall team performance- especially consistency. Some of our bad or unexpected losses in the last year or two, was due to the team as a whole not having a real crack at the contest. Sure we want certain players to step up, but I feel that we expect more than they can deliver.

I tend to agree
As someone said to me recently….this list is not a typical Lyon list to take on….it doesn’t have a strong A grade group like 2009 Saints or Freo with stars available (it’s why I personally think Lyon would’ve loved Carlton…they have more of it and ought to be challenging and he likes it)
But what Lyon clearly sees with us is numerous players (may not be Fyfe level) who haven’t reached potential
IF he drags that out of them AND we can add some additional A grade talent over time he’ll get his list
It’s not normal Lyon style though so will be intriguing
But I agree with your point - Lyon’s strong suit has always been delivering teams that when st their best show up consistently
It will take him 2-3 years imo to get where he wants

[saynta]

We would really be in the s*** next year if the Saints had traded Membrey as suggested.

Thankfully for us true supporters, the Saints administration are not stupid.

[Teflon]

We would really be in the s*** next year if the Saints had traded Membrey as suggested.

Thankfully for us true supporters, the Saints administration are not stupid.

Yes yes ….cause you “true supporters” fanboying every player have only seen us stuck in the wilderness 12 years…
Going well true believer!!
Lol lol lol lmao lol lol lmao etc etc

[B.M]

Tut tut Teflon - don’t make it personal

The theory you’ve got to give something to get something is a fair statement

But giving up very good players for second round draft picks is stupidity


Do you realise how many second round picks are busts?

And you want to give up a Clark (who btw is a pick 7) a Billings (pick 3) Membrey (a 4 time leading goal kicker) a Ross (2 time B&F) etc… for pick 19-36 in the draft

Should I list the success of all our second rounders in the last 20 years

We get a second round pick every year - how about focusing on getting that right

And keeping our good players (who actually deliver)

[Impatient Sainter]

We have to remember how much our game plan has affected their delivery into the F50. If Membrey was playing in the Melbourne, Sydney or Geelong teams he would average 50 goals a year and we wouldnt be having this discussion. The fact that he has had to push so far up the ground as the link man has really detracted from his potency in front of goal.

The other point is I dont think it will take Lyon & his current assistants long to work out which players suit the game style they are wanting to play. Gresham for one wont be used much as a mid as he doesnt work hard enough both ways. His strengths also are close to goals and I think thats where he will be played. Dont be surprised to see Jones pushed back into defence (to replace Sinclair) and players like Connolly given a chance to use his run off half back.

The other thing with us having two list spots available - I hope we are not just looking at players training with us, but those given train on opportunities at other clubs also? IMO we cant rely on Hayes coming back and playing aswell as he did before his injury. Heath with his lack of aerobic capacity needs time, so IMO we desparately need to find another tall forward/ruckman as a priority to fill one of the our vacant list spots.

[saynta]

Tut tut Teflon - don’t make it personal

The theory you’ve got to give something to get something is a fair statement

But giving up very good players for second round draft picks is stupidity


Do you realise how many second round picks are busts?

And you want to give up a Clark (who btw is a pick 7) a Billings (pick 3) Membrey (a 4 time leading goal kicker) a Ross (2 time B&F) etc… for pick 19-36 in the draft

Should I list the success of all our second rounders in the last 20 years

We get a second round pick every year - how about focusing on getting that right

And keeping our good players (who actually deliver)

Laughable suggestions as you so rightly point out.