5 key players who must and can improve.

[Gershwin]

IMHO these are the players that will determine our 2023 season:

1. Rohan Marshall
Injury plagued last couple of seasons and didn't even make out top 10 B&F. So much depends on him in 2023.

2. Brad Hill
Can't find an excuse for his very average performances. Equal 7th in B&F is not good enough.

3. Jade Gresham
Needs to avoid injury. Play him in the forward pocket? Maybe he just can't run all day.

4. Jack Billings
Has the skill but injuries are killing him. The fitness staff need to get him on the ground.

5. Hunter Clark
Needs to get fit and get a regular place in the midfield rotation in place of Crouch or Ross.

Players like Sinclair, Steele and Wilkie just need to continue what they are doing.

Players like Butler, Higgins, Webster etc. probably haven't got much improvement in them.

The five above are critical.

[WellardSaint]

Butler and Snags- we've seen their best and their worst.
The challenge for them and the coaches will be to greatly reduce their 'worst' and get them to consistently play at or near their best.
Webster hasn't got long left.
If he isn't best 25, then our squad will be doing great.
It will be a sure sign that our defence is getting better.
We need others to overtake him and push him out.

[Teflon]

I think we are severely over stating Billings importance to the team
He’s an outside B grader on a good day - not gonna make it break our year
Let’s be honest if he managed to play a consistent year he’d be really good solid depth in the DMac mould
I think Higgins is more important
He’s shown what he’s capable of for half a season - all Australian form to that point….can ge repeat it???
Richmond mates I know have doubts…
I do know IF Butler does t hit the scoreboard this year ge won’t survive on “pressure acts” time to step up Dan holiday is over …

[skeptic]

I think we are severely over stating Billings importance to the team
He’s an outside B grader on a good day - not gonna make it break our year
Let’s be honest if he managed to play a consistent year he’d be really good solid depth in the DMac mould

Hate to say it Tef but you called this like 2 years ago… you pushed for the trade maybe the year we made the finals. I was one of a few that thought he’d be better value than anything we’d trade him for… has barely gotten on the park since then and been well below par.

[SaintWiki]

IMHO these are the players that will determine our 2023 season:

1. Rohan Marshall
Injury plagued last couple of seasons and didn't even make out top 10 B&F. So much depends on him in 2023.

2. Brad Hill
Can't find an excuse for his very average performances. Equal 7th in B&F is not good enough.

3. Jade Gresham
Needs to avoid injury. Play him in the forward pocket? Maybe he just can't run all day.

4. Jack Billings
Has the skill but injuries are killing him. The fitness staff need to get him on the ground.

5. Hunter Clark
Needs to get fit and get a regular place in the midfield rotation in place of Crouch or Ross.

Players like Sinclair, Steele and Wilkie just need to continue what they are doing.

Players like Butler, Higgins, Webster etc. probably haven't got much improvement in them.

The five above are critical.

Well if you couldn't see that the speedy outside wingman who kicks well was played out of position and then expected to play inside and wasn't given multiple leads when running at full speed whilst dodging and weaving, then I can't help you. We are lucky we are paying him heaps otherwise he'd have been out of here.

[cwrcyn]

I'm not factoring in Billings. Nasty back injury followed by surgery and a delayed start to preseason.Its hard to see him having any impact in the first half of the season. Someone like Connolly could overtake him if given the opportunity. Billings is in the same category as Mason Wood. A solid B Grader who'll work hard but will rarely impact a game to any significant degree.

Gresham is one of our most important players. He's been unlucky with injuries. Another one with a delayed preseason, he won't be at peak fitness come round one. He can do things that most of our players can't, so he's super important. If he gets fit and stays fit, we'll be singing his praises.

Marshall should thrive as the main ruckman. He finally got fit last year after two injury plagued seasons. I'm confident he'll have a very solid season.

Hill will be better under a better game plan and a more suitable position. Ross will exploit his strengths. I'm predicting a much better season from him

Hunter Clark has copped some nasty comments on this forum that have been horribly vitriolic. Pretty poor form by some posters. With a solid preseason, he'll be far better. Like Gresham, he can do things that others can't. We moan about players not having the X factor. Well, Hunter Clark has it, and when he gets a clear run at it, he will have some people eating their words.

[Vortex]

I'm not factoring in Billings. Nasty back injury followed by surgery and a delayed start to preseason.Its hard to see him having any impact in the first half of the season. Someone like Connolly could overtake him if given the opportunity. Billings is in the same category as Mason Wood. A solid B Grader who'll work hard but will rarely impact a game to any significant degree.

Gresham is one of our most important players. He's been unlucky with injuries. Another one with a delayed preseason, he won't be at peak fitness come round one. He can do things that most of our players can't, so he's super important. If he gets fit and stays fit, we'll be singing his praises.

Marshall should thrive as the main ruckman. He finally got fit last year after two injury plagued seasons. I'm confident he'll have a very solid season.

Hill will be better under a better game plan and a more suitable position. Ross will exploit his strengths. I'm predicting a much better season from him

Hunter Clark has copped some nasty comments on this forum that have been horribly vitriolic. Pretty poor form by some posters. With a solid preseason, he'll be far better. Like Gresham, he can do things that others can't. We moan about players not having the X factor. Well, Hunter Clark has it, and when he gets a clear run at it, he will have some people eating their words.

I'm curious, what have you seen in Connolly's 7 AFL games that makes you think he's capable of being a contributor to bringing in our next piece of silverware?

[B.M]

Agree injury/rehab will make it difficult for Billings to get to his best in the first half of the season


Disagree he is at the level of Mason Wood and Daniel McKenzie

Short memories, do a career player compare

[Banger9798]

1. Max King - shoulder aside, his upside is enormous, and will benefit from a game plan that has him lead up.

2. Windhager - you just know he will push to be the best he can be, and that could be very good indeed.

3. Bytel - wants a midfield spot, and Ross has opened up that possibility.

4. NWM - will step it up with another preseason and a flowing game plan.

5. Coffield - will take a few rounds but will get to , and then will go past his top 5 form of 2020.

[saynta]

Gresham is one of our most important players. He's been unlucky with injuries. Another one with a delayed

Hunter Clark has copped some nasty comments on this forum that have been horribly vitriolic. Pretty poor form by some posters. With a solid preseason, he'll be far better. Like Gresham, he can do things that others can't. We moan about players not having the X factor. Well, Hunter Clark has it, and when he gets a clear run at it, he will have some people eating their words.

Hear hear.Well said.

I have claimed for years that there are opposition supporters on this site posing as sainters just to undermine certain players.

Well, I would like to think that because the alternative really sucks.

[Saintmike65]

An interesting sideline to this post is:

Who amongst our players has reached their full potential?
I reckon it’s a small list - Wilkie, Sinclair, Webster, Ross, Crouch & Steele?

[Vortex]

An interesting sideline to this post is:

Who amongst our players has reached their full potential?
I reckon it’s a small list - Wilkie, Sinclair, Webster, Ross, Crouch & Steele?

Members, has just been hard to look good in a properly stocked forward line but if the club ever gets it act together and finds some decent forwards, especially tall options then he will get off the chain and be significantly more damaging.

[SuperDuper]

An interesting sideline to this post is:

Who amongst our players has reached their full potential?
I reckon it’s a small list - Wilkie, Sinclair, Webster, Ross, Crouch & Steele?

Crouch apparently doing PBs in the running and in best shape of his career. Lets hope he can have a career best year. No reason why he cant.

[Saintmike65]

I'm not factoring in Billings. Nasty back injury followed by surgery and a delayed start to preseason.Its hard to see him having any impact in the first half of the season. Someone like Connolly could overtake him if given the opportunity. Billings is in the same category as Mason Wood. A solid B Grader who'll work hard but will rarely impact a game to any significant degree.

Gresham is one of our most important players. He's been unlucky with injuries. Another one with a delayed preseason, he won't be at peak fitness come round one. He can do things that most of our players can't, so he's super important. If he gets fit and stays fit, we'll be singing his praises.

Marshall should thrive as the main ruckman. He finally got fit last year after two injury plagued seasons. I'm confident he'll have a very solid season.

Hill will be better under a better game plan and a more suitable position. Ross will exploit his strengths. I'm predicting a much better season from him

Hunter Clark has copped some nasty comments on this forum that have been horribly vitriolic. Pretty poor form by some posters. With a solid preseason, he'll be far better. Like Gresham, he can do things that others can't. We moan about players not having the X factor. Well, Hunter Clark has it, and when he gets a clear run at it, he will have some people eating their words.

I'm curious, what have you seen in Connolly's 7 AFL games that makes you think he's capable of being a contributor to bringing in our next piece of silverware?

I’ve seen Leo a few times at preseason training, he’s got good attributes in his speed, decision making and foot skills on both sides…what he think he lacks thus far is a mindset of being good enough at the top level.
That may improve with more opportunities!

[Impatient Sainter]

I think when it comes to Hunter Clark, posters are frustrated he hasnt reached the levels that his potential suggested he is capable of. He could have become the missing link in our midfield, but has let himself and the club down with his lack of a professional physique. Now 2nd year players have gone past him as first 23 players. We all know he has had some unfortunate injuries, but in spite of that his lack of physical development is damning. I know not all players are muscle bound eg wingmen, but all professional players wishing to play midfield have muscle definition.

The first thing certain posters will suggest is how do I know the above, well there is plenty of information and people with inside knowledge that have affirmed that information. Even Lenny Hayes said in the media that Hunter has to work on his fitness as a priority.

Then add the clubs willingness to trade him at seasons end, I have no doubt those at the club were also frustrated with his lack of improvement and doubted his motivation to get there. Thats not to suggest that posters dislike Hunter or want the worst for him, its simply frustrating watching such a talented kid waste his potential.

[Vortex]

I'm not factoring in Billings. Nasty back injury followed by surgery and a delayed start to preseason.Its hard to see him having any impact in the first half of the season. Someone like Connolly could overtake him if given the opportunity. Billings is in the same category as Mason Wood. A solid B Grader who'll work hard but will rarely impact a game to any significant degree.

Gresham is one of our most important players. He's been unlucky with injuries. Another one with a delayed preseason, he won't be at peak fitness come round one. He can do things that most of our players can't, so he's super important. If he gets fit and stays fit, we'll be singing his praises.

Marshall should thrive as the main ruckman. He finally got fit last year after two injury plagued seasons. I'm confident he'll have a very solid season.

Hill will be better under a better game plan and a more suitable position. Ross will exploit his strengths. I'm predicting a much better season from him

Hunter Clark has copped some nasty comments on this forum that have been horribly vitriolic. Pretty poor form by some posters. With a solid preseason, he'll be far better. Like Gresham, he can do things that others can't. We moan about players not having the X factor. Well, Hunter Clark has it, and when he gets a clear run at it, he will have some people eating their words.

I'm curious, what have you seen in Connolly's 7 AFL games that makes you think he's capable of being a contributor to bringing in our next piece of silverware?

I’ve seen Leo a few times at preseason training, he’s got good attributes in his speed, decision making and foot skills on both sides…what he think he lacks thus far is a mindset of being good enough at the top level.
That may improve with more opportunities!

Yeah training is one area a player can look good, what about on the AFL playing field, what have you seen in his 7 games that makes you think he can kick a current player out of the best 22?

[skeptic]

I think when it comes to Hunter Clark, posters are frustrated he hasnt reached the levels that his potential suggested he is capable of. He could have become the missing link in our midfield, but has let himself and the club down with his lack of a professional physique. Now 2nd year players have gone past him as first 23 players. We all know he has had some unfortunate injuries, but in spite of that his lack of physical development is damning. I know not all players are muscle bound eg wingmen, but all professional players wishing to play midfield have muscle definition.

The first thing certain posters will suggest is how do I know the above, well there is plenty of information and people with inside knowledge that have affirmed that information. Even Lenny Hayes said in the media that Hunter has to work on his fitness as a priority.

Then add the clubs willingness to trade him at seasons end, I have no doubt those at the club were also frustrated with his lack of improvement and doubted his motivation to get there. Thats not to suggest that posters dislike Hunter or want the worst for him, its simply frustrating watching such a talented kid waste his potential.

Just to add… it’s been suggested on this forum on a few occasions (so take that for what it’s worth) that various fitness personnel including individual personal trainers that service players from multiple clubs have suggested players at the Saints have been resistant ++ or had a negative attitude towards doing the work.
Clark is one of the names that has been mentioned. Many on the forum have have raised prep as a concern for this group and considered it as a contributing factor to the club stalling over the last few years.

No inside knowledge on my end but it does feel like the narrative fits.

Pre injury last year… the narrative on Coffield was that he was absolutely setting the tracking on fire and the word is that he’s been in reasonable shape coming back too. I think we’ve all been waiting to hear that about Clark too

[Saintmike65]

I think when it comes to Hunter Clark, posters are frustrated he hasnt reached the levels that his potential suggested he is capable of. He could have become the missing link in our midfield, but has let himself and the club down with his lack of a professional physique. Now 2nd year players have gone past him as first 23 players. We all know he has had some unfortunate injuries, but in spite of that his lack of physical development is damning. I know not all players are muscle bound eg wingmen, but all professional players wishing to play midfield have muscle definition.

The first thing certain posters will suggest is how do I know the above, well there is plenty of information and people with inside knowledge that have affirmed that information. Even Lenny Hayes said in the media that Hunter has to work on his fitness as a priority.

Then add the clubs willingness to trade him at seasons end, I have no doubt those at the club were also frustrated with his lack of improvement and doubted his motivation to get there. Thats not to suggest that posters dislike Hunter or want the worst for him, its simply frustrating watching such a talented kid waste his potential.

Just to add… it’s been suggested on this forum on a few occasions (so take that for what it’s worth) that various fitness personnel including individual personal trainers that service players from multiple clubs have suggested that players at the Saints have been resistant ++ or had a negative attitude towards doing the work.
Clark is one of the names that has been mentioned. Many on the forum have have raised prep as a concern for this group and considered it as a contributing factor to the club stalling over the last few years.

No inside knowledge on my end but it does feel like the narrative fits.

Pre injury last year… the narrative on Coffield was that he was absolutely setting the tracking on fire and the word is that he’s been in reasonable shape coming back too. I think we’ve all been waiting to hear that about Clark too

Unfortunately elite sport is littered with players that don’t fulfill their potential.
The boss won’t tolerate Hunter Clark or anyone else for that matter, if he’s not doing the right thing regarding work rate.

[Vortex]

I think when it comes to Hunter Clark, posters are frustrated he hasnt reached the levels that his potential suggested he is capable of. He could have become the missing link in our midfield, but has let himself and the club down with his lack of a professional physique. Now 2nd year players have gone past him as first 23 players. We all know he has had some unfortunate injuries, but in spite of that his lack of physical development is damning. I know not all players are muscle bound eg wingmen, but all professional players wishing to play midfield have muscle definition.

The first thing certain posters will suggest is how do I know the above, well there is plenty of information and people with inside knowledge that have affirmed that information. Even Lenny Hayes said in the media that Hunter has to work on his fitness as a priority.

Then add the clubs willingness to trade him at seasons end, I have no doubt those at the club were also frustrated with his lack of improvement and doubted his motivation to get there. Thats not to suggest that posters dislike Hunter or want the worst for him, its simply frustrating watching such a talented kid waste his potential.

Just to add… it’s been suggested on this forum on a few occasions (so take that for what it’s worth) that various fitness personnel including individual personal trainers that service players from multiple clubs have suggested that players at the Saints have been resistant ++ or had a negative attitude towards doing the work.
Clark is one of the names that has been mentioned. Many on the forum have have raised prep as a concern for this group and considered it as a contributing factor to the club stalling over the last few years.

No inside knowledge on my end but it does feel like the narrative fits.

Pre injury last year… the narrative on Coffield was that he was absolutely setting the tracking on fire and the word is that he’s been in reasonable shape coming back too. I think we’ve all been waiting to hear that about Clark too

Unfortunately elite sport is littered with players that don’t fulfill their potential.
The boss won’t tolerate Hunter Clark or anyone else for that matter, if he’s not doing the right thing regarding work rate.

This is the thing that is making RLs return all the more interesting, the belief players will either transform from spuds into brownlow medalists or they will be moved on because of RLs intolerance. It's a fascinating reputation and one that fits a club with the greatest Messiah worshiping syndrome.

Care to guess how many players we will lose because RL wont tolerate them not meeting his exacting standards?

I mean all of the players on our list can't become All Australian in one pre season so if you were guessing who won't make the RL list who would it be?

[Impatient Sainter]

Id suggest there will be a few nervous boys at the end of next year. Thats what RTB brings is 'expectaton', that the players do the work (basics). As he did years ago when he put the acid on Dal Santo and Milne, some players respond and some sook it up. We dont need those at our club.

[Teflon]

Id suggest there will be a few nervous boys at the end of next year. Thats what RTB brings is 'expectaton', that the players do the work (basics). As he did years ago when he put the acid on Dal Santo and Milne, some players respond and some sook it up. We dont need those at our club.

I agree
That’s the difference between having a senior coach demand effort as a minimum standard vs one who allows players to “choose their own pre-season” adventure….
I think we’ll see 4-5 end year moved on traded out or delisted at a minimum.
I expect NWM to go home - I want something for him though..

[Teflon]

I think we are severely over stating Billings importance to the team
He’s an outside B grader on a good day - not gonna make it break our year
Let’s be honest if he managed to play a consistent year he’d be really good solid depth in the DMac mould

Hate to say it Tef but you called this like 2 years ago… you pushed for the trade maybe the year we made the finals. I was one of a few that thought he’d be better value than anything we’d trade him for… has barely gotten on the park since then and been well below par.

At the risk of sounding like a SS know it all flog (big hi to those …you know who you are..)
My concern with Billings went deeper in that my greatest fear was we were treading water - under Richardson and Ratten.
It’s why I also previously would’ve traded Membrey - he’s a decent foil but not elite and never the no 1 banana. My view was then you have to give up something to get and I’ve long felt we lack A grade talent. IF at the time those 2 could’ve netted the club done high DPS….those kids would’ve been in year 2-3 by now…
Anyhooo it’s clear they now get it - we need to draft in class
We won’t get miracle DeGoeys to save us (I’m glad we missed him tbh)
Our last great side came via the draft - go hard there next year as well get elite in and build a core

[B.M]

Is Membrey a good player?

[Ghost Like]

Teflon, I believed your actual issue with Billings was his salary. Once his salary was reduced to a more realistic view then his output was commensurate.

I've really never understood this perception of not rating a player's worth and then expecting a greater gain.

Billings, Clark and Coffield have all suffered from:

1) Better players following them in the draft
2) Injuries and continuity
3) Coaching and subsequent game changes
4) Development at its lowest point for an AFL Club

When people request these trades, what is it they genuinely expect in return?

Tim Membrey is an example of an excellent trade / pick up. A third forward who has played as a #1 forward but the majority as a #2 at an extremely high standard. He cannot be blamed for a poor forward line, he should be celebrated for what he brings to our F50 but is becoming a quintessential Saintsational scapegoat.

[skeptic]

I’m somewhat miffed with the Membrey commentary

I think he’s an outright champion