Training - Friday December 16

[Impatient Sainter]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

Perhaps you are right, but I think you are under rating the improvement our midfield will display. Our weakness is our key forward stocks apart from King, we basically have no other proven key forward. I class Membrey as a medium sized forward.

The Dogs have lost their best player this season (Dunkley) and Hunter who was an important outside cog in their list. They do have some good key position players coming through, but their strength in the past has been their midfield. Smith will move into the middle but they will have to replace his outside run. Lobb will be a good 2nd tall/ruckman & Jones will add to their defence, but whether he can return to past form after a year out is yet to be seen.

They have definitely filled their holes in the key tall roles but Dunkley average 25 disposals 4 clearances & Hunter 20 disposals will deplete their mids.

The Key forward shortage seemed to be the one thing that wasn't a priority in the free agency, trade and draft periods in the off season, quite surprising for me as the club progressed through those stages, now that King is injured it could be a costly oversight. I doubt Eyre is the answer. Ross thinks we only have to cover 2 goals a game until King returns, based on King's early 2022 season returns.

The club did take Keeler a key tall forward in the draft, but he will need a year or two of development before he is exposed to AFL defenders. To their defence they did approach Weideman, as I recall he meeting Ratts etc at the club. Im sure in hindsight after losing King, Gallagher & co wished they had of went a bit harder at Weideman or Schache. Particularly when they were prepared to give a GOP like Cordy a 3 year contract to add as a backup up key defender.

It will be a big ask but hopefully Jack Hayes is ready to go round 1 and Sharman can step up and produce to his potential. With Higgins looking in career best fitness, Butler really applying himiself to training, Gresham back perhaps we can fill the massive void King will leave?

Saint Mike I am sure your projection of Phillipou will be correct, he will be a star! But given his need to add a bit of size etc, I would hold him back from the first round and see how he goes in the practce matches, VFL before throwing him in. He might be a better player than Owens, but we saw how overawed he was this year playing in round 1. Apart from finals round 1 is often the hottest game of the year, so there is no need to rush these kids give them time and let them earn their position in the side.

[CQ SAINT]

That a strange way of looking at it

He did average 2.5 goals

But he didn’t kick that every week

He had 4 or so bags of 5/6 which were match winning games

Those are what you have to replace - a key forward who at times can take a game by the scruff of the neck.

Cooper may come in and contribute a goal here and a goal there… but playing on key defenders- can he take a game apart?

Coopers limited efforts up forward have had a healthy return on impact.

He kicked 10 goals in his first 4 games.
He nearly got us over the line against Geelong but our back line failed and our midfield stopped.
He was a matchwinner against Freo and we won 2 out of 4 with a more mobile looking attack.

Then, as the Ratten era went, he was left out of the team for the first 6 weeks of 2022 and ended up roaming around half back.

[saint6709]

I have no idea why we didn’t chase Schache or Weideman

It was obvious to me

Same - and I posted it a number of times - would have got Schache for a throw away draft pick - I don't know why they didn't get him ?!?

[cwrcyn]

Because he doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body.

[B.M]

Has King??

[Teflon]

Has King??

Who’s more effective already King or Schache ?
Let’s not be silly

[Teflon]

Has King??

Who’s more effective already King or Schache ?
Let’s not be silly

[Saintmike65]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

Perhaps you are right, but I think you are under rating the improvement our midfield will display. Our weakness is our key forward stocks apart from King, we basically have no other proven key forward. I class Membrey as a medium sized forward.

The Dogs have lost their best player this season (Dunkley) and Hunter who was an important outside cog in their list. They do have some good key position players coming through, but their strength in the past has been their midfield. Smith will move into the middle but they will have to replace his outside run. Lobb will be a good 2nd tall/ruckman & Jones will add to their defence, but whether he can return to past form after a year out is yet to be seen.

They have definitely filled their holes in the key tall roles but Dunkley average 25 disposals 4 clearances & Hunter 20 disposals will deplete their mids.

The Key forward shortage seemed to be the one thing that wasn't a priority in the free agency, trade and draft periods in the off season, quite surprising for me as the club progressed through those stages, now that King is injured it could be a costly oversight. I doubt Eyre is the answer. Ross thinks we only have to cover 2 goals a game until King returns, based on King's early 2022 season returns.

The club did take Keeler a key tall forward in the draft, but he will need a year or two of development before he is exposed to AFL defenders. To their defence they did approach Weideman, as I recall he meeting Ratts etc at the club. Im sure in hindsight after losing King, Gallagher & co wished they had of went a bit harder at Weideman or Schache. Particularly when they were prepared to give a GOP like Cordy a 3 year contract to add as a backup up key defender.

It will be a big ask but hopefully Jack Hayes is ready to go round 1 and Sharman can step up and produce to his potential. With Higgins looking in career best fitness, Butler really applying himiself to training, Gresham back perhaps we can fill the massive void King will leave?

Saint Mike I am sure your projection of Phillipou will be correct, he will be a star! But given his need to add a bit of size etc, I would hold him back from the first round and see how he goes in the practce matches, VFL before throwing him in. He might be a better player than Owens, but we saw how overawed he was this year playing in round 1. Apart from finals round 1 is often the hottest game of the year, so there is no need to rush these kids give them time and let them earn their position in the side.

I’d be very surprised if Phillipou was overawed..he’ll be pushing big time to debut round 1!

[B.M]

I’ll be surprised if Phillipou plays more than 6-8

Injury dependent

[saint6709]

Has King??

Who’s more effective already King or Schache ?
Let’s not be silly

I don’t think ‘has to be more effective than King’ would have been the criteria

Maybe Ben king might come close to fulfilling that - maybe not - but he wasn’t being given away for a draft pick we wouldn’t need to use

[Impatient Sainter]

I’ll be surprised if Phillipou plays more than 6-8

Injury dependent

He has just turned 18 and still has an under developed physique. I hope they take a conservative approach with him, 6-8 games would be about right IMO.

[bobmurray]

Dogs will probably be top 4

Definitely top 6

They are comfortably better than us

Perhaps you are right, but I think you are under rating the improvement our midfield will display. Our weakness is our key forward stocks apart from King, we basically have no other proven key forward. I class Membrey as a medium sized forward.

The Dogs have lost their best player this season (Dunkley) and Hunter who was an important outside cog in their list. They do have some good key position players coming through, but their strength in the past has been their midfield. Smith will move into the middle but they will have to replace his outside run. Lobb will be a good 2nd tall/ruckman & Jones will add to their defence, but whether he can return to past form after a year out is yet to be seen.

They have definitely filled their holes in the key tall roles but Dunkley average 25 disposals 4 clearances & Hunter 20 disposals will deplete their mids.

The Key forward shortage seemed to be the one thing that wasn't a priority in the free agency, trade and draft periods in the off season, quite surprising for me as the club progressed through those stages, now that King is injured it could be a costly oversight. I doubt Eyre is the answer. Ross thinks we only have to cover 2 goals a game until King returns, based on King's early 2022 season returns.

Maybe they think they’ve got one coming in 12 months time?

Aah, the Bing.

[Saintmike65]

I’ll be surprised if Phillipou plays more than 6-8

Injury dependent

He has just turned 18 and still has an under developed physique. I hope they take a conservative approach with him, 6-8 games would be about right IMO.

Hunter Clark played about 12 games in his first season as a scrawny kid..Phillipou may not have a lot of muscle definition yet but is already 89 kg!
With 5 on the bench I’m backing him to play more than 6-8 games.
If your good enough you’re old enough.

[Moods]

I have no idea why we didn’t chase Schache or Weideman

It was obvious to me

Same - and I posted it a number of times - would have got Schache for a throw away draft pick - I don't know why they didn't get him ?!?

In a nutshell, because he’s crap. And he’s proven he’s crap over a number of years. S ache that is.

Weideman may have been worth a go but would have cost us far more. He’s shown small amounts of ability on occasions.

[saintsRrising]

Hunter Clark played about 12 games in his first season as a scrawny kid..Phillipou may not have a lot of muscle definition yet but is already 89 kg!
With 5 on the bench I’m backing him to play more than 6-8 games.
If your good enough you’re old enough.

While I hear what you are saying, and while I certainly hope that they use 5 and on the bench to get some games into our younger players this year I would also note that:

Windy is top of the young player list at present, and looks to be in the 22, as opposed to the 23..

Owens is probably number 2, and he and the Poo would be both playing as a tallish HF/mid.

Nasiah needs games.

Bytel has done everything right since the season finished, has improved his fitness, and has been working hard with Lenny. He deserves some games now that is body is at last right.

Hotton is quite possibly the most ready to play of the recent draftees.


So with then Byrnes, Connolly and a few others there are quite a few than need some gametime in our 23 over the course of the season. And that ignores our talls.

I think that for Poo to playa lot of games, that he would need to be delivering a good output, and I just do not know whether his body is ready for that yet.

[Saintmike65]

Because he doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body.

Spot on..there’s a reason he’s now at his third club..much prefer Keeler, who’s going to be a good player.
In the meantime we can go with a mobile forward setup until big Max comes back, which maybe sooner than we think!

[Sanctorum]

Hunter Clark played about 12 games in his first season as a scrawny kid..Phillipou may not have a lot of muscle definition yet but is already 89 kg!
With 5 on the bench I’m backing him to play more than 6-8 games.
If your good enough you’re old enough.

While I hear what you are saying, and while I certainly hope that they use 5 and on the bench to get some games into our younger players this year I would also note that:

Windy is top of the young player list at present, and looks to be in the 22, as opposed to the 23..

Owens is probably number 2, and he and the Poo would be both playing as a tallish HF/mid.

Nasiah needs games.

Bytel has done everything right since the season finished, has improved his fitness, and has been working hard with Lenny. He deserves some games now that is body is at last right.

Hotton is quite possibly the most ready to play of the recent draftees.


So with then Byrnes, Connolly and a few others there are quite a few than need some gametime in our 23 over the course of the season. And that ignores our talls.

I think that for Poo to playa lot of games, that he would need to be delivering a good output, and I just do not know whether his body is ready for that yet.

I don't go along with anyone necessarily deserving a game based on pre-season training form.

Let's see how Bytel/Byrnes/Connolly/Owens/Hotton/Philipou etc go in the practice matches. That said, I hope that 2 or 3 of these will force their way into the frame for selection in round 1. Owens and Phillipou have similar physiques, both 190cm, 85kg and 89kg respectively.

You'd expect Phillipou to develop a similar physique to Bontempelli - 193cm & 93kg and it's worth noting that the Bont played 16 games in his first season 2014, following being drafted in 2013. There's no reason to think Mateas won't do the same, he's certainly going to work his butt off to do exactly that!!

[Impatient Sainter]

I’ll be surprised if Phillipou plays more than 6-8

Injury dependent

He has just turned 18 and still has an under developed physique. I hope they take a conservative approach with him, 6-8 games would be about right IMO.

Hunter Clark played about 12 games in his first season as a scrawny kid..Phillipou may not have a lot of muscle definition yet but is already 89 kg!
With 5 on the bench I’m backing him to play more than 6-8 games.
If your good enough you’re old enough.

I rate your posts Mike, but on this topic I really dont see the need to rush the kid. I can understand your excitement and he may play more games but as a HFF there is already a number of senior players ahead of him.

Clark played in a bottom of the table side & still hasn't done the work to develop an AFL physique. Thats not to say Phillipou wont, but I am worried that playing under developed kids at that level exposes them to long term injuries eg shoulder, knee injuries. Hence my position he is going to be a once in a generation midfielder, lets think long term and not rush him and expose him to unecessary potential for injury.

[kosifantutti]

I’ll be surprised if Phillipou plays more than 6-8

Injury dependent

Should he space them out through the season or should he make his debut in Round 20-22 and play through to the end?

[Saintmike65]

Reading the above about Alison, I think he won't make it . Maybe the Saints should have bitten the bullet this year and delisted him

A lot of us thought DMac wouldn’t make it & outraged he got a contract extension..that’s turned out ok!

[Gershwin]

I’ll be surprised if Phillipou plays more than 6-8

Injury dependent

Should he space them out through the season or should he make his debut in Round 20-22 and play through to the end?

The thing about the first year players, is that they have never been tackled as hard as they will be this year. They are going to be thrown to the ground by gorillas. And their own tackles will not stick as they did in under 18’s. They need to develop strength. I have no problem if Phillipou plays all the season for Sandringham where there is a little less intensity and a lower standard.

[bakes]

Re: key forward we’ve already got 1. Campbell will ruck most of the game and Marshall will stay forward. Easy.

[spert]

I reckon Bytel has all the goods to make it, but like too many of our players, inconsistency is a problem- play some great footy, then go missing. Fitness is one factor, but maybe we need an expert to work on the game above the shoulders with our list

[Killa]

Quite frankly, the reliance placed on Hayes, Sharman and those Drafted a couple of weeks ago is a real problem IF that is where the St Kilda List is at

More to the point is the full fitness of the likes of Coffield, Clark, Higgins, Gresham et al

From a side that missed finals participation in 2022 by what it did, we have lost the influential Ryder and the class of Hannebery noting that both of those players missed multiple games across 2022 (along with a multitude of others who missed games across the season including the Captain)

And we now have King missing for the early stages of the season

My focus would be on a healthy List

Where the likes of Hayes and Sharman along with those Drafted are not relied on whilst they develop at the level and, hopefully, consolidate at the level as influential players

[B.M]

We clearly have a lot more depth than 2018 when Hunter debuted

In his positions

HF/Mid/Wing
Owens, Billings, Gresham,Wood, Hill, Clark, Jones etc… off the top of my head

Who would he be a better player than right now? Not in the future… right now?

All those players have dominated AFL games at points… he played SANFL U18s and Ressies

The hope is that becomes a great AFL player - not that he Is already a great AFL player