Clubs asking about Ben Long.

[bangaulegend]

If Essendon wont long fine they have picks 11,48,54 tell them we wont 11 when they refuse tell them we wont a pick in late teens early 20s and make them work to get that pick or they give us a pick in the 30s and a player but we should make them sweat.
Sorry but I really do not like them at all.

After past trade debacles with Essendon I would refuse to trade with them. They can sod off as far as I am concerned. Biggest cheats in sporting Australia.

+1 Cheating f---ing ar--holes but much to my disgust due to their f---ing cheating they are getting a decent list together just f---ing wrong IMO

[Saints58]

I keep repeating myself but I like him and the X factor he has.
Keeper

Agreed if other clubs wont him I suspect we will trade him but he will be sorely missed.
He has played all-over the ground why not put him as a midfielder he has pace and isn't that what gags said we are looking for well he is there get him fit and he will take off if not trade him next year.
Its worse if we trade him and he becomes a great player we now have a few new coaches that will hopefully help his game.
PLEASE DO NOT TRADE HIM!

[happy feet]

anyone but Essendon

[lefty]

Rule 1: Never trade with Essendon
Rule 2: See rule one

I am tired of being rooted by Essendon, STOP DEALING WITH DODORO AND ESSENDON PERIOD. Tell Dororo first round pick for anyone. I don't care about them anymore, every trade has turned out terrible with them, stop doing it.

[st.byron]

I keep repeating myself but I like him and the X factor he has.
Keeper

Agreed if other clubs wont him I suspect we will trade him but he will be sorely missed.
He has played all-over the ground why not put him as a midfielder he has pace and isn't that what gags said we are looking for well he is there get him fit and he will take off if not trade him next year.
Its worse if we trade him and he becomes a great player we now have a few new coaches that will hopefully help his game.
PLEASE DO NOT TRADE HIM!

I also like him....but...if trading him will land us a pick that ends up getting a talented NGA kid then that's got to be worth considering. He's shown some glimpses but no consistency. Clock is ticking for him I reckon. Being a hard nut isn't enough. You've got to hurt the opposition with the footy as well.

[Scollop]

I want to know what happened to Long to change Ratts mind on him. He went from being an integral part of the team in 2020 when he was best 22 to someone struggling to win a place in the squad

I'm going to watch 2 matches and I'll get back to this thread and provide an opinion on how he played.

I'll watch the last match he played in 2020, which was the Elimination final against the Bulldogs, plus the first match this year (the win against the Giants in Round 1). After those matches it seems he lost confidnce and the coaches lost confidence in him. Not sure which occured first

Obviously, I don't know what his roles were as far as the coaches were concerned and I don't know what his instructions are for both matches so it'll purely be how clean he is, how he defends and how he brings his team mates into the game and just general stats

[B.M]

He wasn’t integral

He played at HB and did ok but didn’t give enough drive

Coaching staff on reviewing the season saw that as an area to improve (HB)

Hence, Sinclair moving there to give more run, creativity and better ball use

[Scollop]

We’ve got a third of our squad that aren’t integral but we need them all to get through a season and you can’t take to the field with only 16 of your best players

[1965 Saint]

If Essendon wont long fine they have picks 11,48,54 tell them we wont 11 when they refuse tell them we wont a pick in late teens early 20s and make them work to get that pick or they give us a pick in the 30s and a player but we should make them sweat.
Sorry but I really do not like them at all.

After past trade debacles with Essendon I would refuse to trade with them. They can sod off as far as I am concerned. Biggest cheats in sporting Australia.

+1 Cheating f---ing ar--holes but much to my disgust due to their f---ing cheating they are getting a decent list together just f---ing wrong IMO

+2 They shouldn't even be in the competition. Should have been deregistered.

[Scollop]

He wasn’t integral

He played at HB and did ok but didn’t give enough drive

Coaching staff on reviewing the season saw that as an area to improve (HB)

Hence, Sinclair moving there to give more run, creativity and better ball use

Ben Long played in defence at HB in Round 1 against the Giants.

Long and Sinclair had similar stats and Long was the better ball user by foot with better DE

Lined up on some of their dangerous players like Tarranto. His spoils and tap ons don’t get on the stat sheet but he had a good game against GWS

[B.M]

What happened in round 2?

[Scollop]

What happened in round 2?

We lost in Round 3 against Melbourne. Long was ok. Nothing spectacular and wasn’t the worst.

In Round 4 against the Bombers we had a few passengers and he was poor that day. Got dropped after Essendon smashed us by 75 points and after Tigers and Port smashed us. He lost form and confidence after that

[Devilhead]

With all players fit and firing Long sits about 30 on our list in ranking

Contracted .... if we can pull a 2nd rounder then take it

[magnifisaint]

He should be nominating Carlton like every other player
I don't see the attraction of nominating such a crap club

[Scollop]

With all players fit and firing Long sits about 30 on our list in ranking

Contracted .... if we can pull a 2nd rounder then take it

Where did he rank at the end of 2020 when he had a good year and we made finals?

[Devilhead]

With all players fit and firing Long sits about 30 on our list in ranking

Contracted .... if we can pull a 2nd rounder then take it

Where did he rank at the end of 2020 when he had a good year and we made finals?

Not sure what 2020 form has to do with 2022 especially when his 2021 form was bog standard average at best

He can't go thru the midfield and is behind a bunch of players both forward & back - surplus to requirements

As stated if we can get a 2nd rounder for him (he is currently contracted) then that may help us to pull in some of our highly rated NGAs who could develop far further than he has

A few big grabs and bumps here and there isn't gunna change my mind

[Scollop]

With all players fit and firing Long sits about 30 on our list in ranking

Contracted .... if we can pull a 2nd rounder then take it

Where did he rank at the end of 2020 when he had a good year and we made finals?

Not sure what 2020 form has to do with 2022 especially when his 2021 form was bog standard average at best

He can't go thru the midfield and is behind a bunch of players both forward & back - surplus to requirements

As stated if we can get a 2nd rounder for him (he is currently contracted) then that may help us to pull in some of our highly rated NGAs who could develop far further than he has

A few big grabs and bumps here and there isn't gunna change my mind

Where did Gresham rank in 2020? Was he ranked in the top ten? Where did Gresh rank in 2021?

Where did Coff rank in 2021?

Perhaps a few in the coaching department at St Kilda decided that Ben is surplus. Perhaps a few of the leadership group of players have influenced the coaches and selectors decisions to play him this year.

I just watch games and see that the opposition hear footsteps when he’s around. Guys like Toby Greene and Kelly and Tarranto were fumbling when Longy was in tight. Speaking of tight. GWS were only 3 points down at 3 quarter time. Guess who Ratts asked to take their most dangerous forward? Long lined up against Toby Greene.

His ball handling in the wet and his disposal in Round 1 was exquisite. Ask Seb Ross and ask some of the other players who recieved the footy from him whether they want Gresh kicking to them or Ben Long

People keep bringing up his bumps as if that is a reason to keep him or play him. Do you think other teams are interested because he can lay a bump. Get real! His decision making and his ball use and his selflessness and team focus he is very good. With more games and encouragement and support and confidence from a coaching panel and from his team mates he will continue to improve.

You made a definitive statement about where Long ranks and I don’t agree with you. You’re not gunna change my mind that he is a better player than many Saintsational posters think he is.

As mentioned earlier. He is a scapegoat. He was dropped when half the team could have suffered the same fate after we were smashed by Essendon, Richmond and Port Adelaide

[sunsaint]

A few big grabs

and bumps here and there isn't gunna change my mind

few grabs littered with impossible attempts

few bumps followed by weeks suspended

shop him

[Scollop]

Absolute rubbish. Why do you think other clubs want him? Just so he can run around trying to lay bumps?

If you think a player earns his reputation and gets drafted and retains his spot in a team because of a few flash bumps, you don’t understand footy. Long can play. All players make errors. I love his passion and he just needs a player leadership group that is supportive.

If you want to find deficiencies and weaknesses there are plenty with even some of the first picked

Meanwhile protected species and the marshmallows just get a game week in week out

[B.M]

What clubs want him?

Been reported by those two dickheads on AFL.com

Neither would know their arse from their elbow

[desertsaint]

trade him for that nick hind fellow.

[Saints58]

Absolute rubbish. Why do you think other clubs want him? Just so he can run around trying to lay bumps?

If you think a player earns his reputation and gets drafted and retains his spot in a team because of a few flash bumps, you don’t understand footy. Long can play. All players make errors. I love his passion and he just needs a player leadership group that is supportive.

If you want to find deficiencies and weaknesses there are plenty with even some of the first picked

Meanwhile protected species and the marshmallows just get a game week in week out

I agree with you he is very skill full yes he had a few games where he didn't do so well but he was not on his own.
I don't remember what game but he punched the ball in the centre of the ground while going down I think and it bounced to 50 and it was picked up and goaled.
Now he puts his body on the line and does a lot of the hard work so the other players can get a open ball its not pretty but he is essential to our structure we will notice a big hole if he is traded the coaches should just give him some confidence he could be really good.

[B.M]

He’s bog average

High intensity

Little composure

[Devilhead]

With all players fit and firing Long sits about 30 on our list in ranking

Contracted .... if we can pull a 2nd rounder then take it

Where did he rank at the end of 2020 when he had a good year and we made finals?

Not sure what 2020 form has to do with 2022 especially when his 2021 form was bog standard average at best

He can't go thru the midfield and is behind a bunch of players both forward & back - surplus to requirements

As stated if we can get a 2nd rounder for him (he is currently contracted) then that may help us to pull in some of our highly rated NGAs who could develop far further than he has

A few big grabs and bumps here and there isn't gunna change my mind

Where did Gresham rank in 2020? Was he ranked in the top ten? Where did Gresh rank in 2021?

Where did Coff rank in 2021?

Perhaps a few in the coaching department at St Kilda decided that Ben is surplus. Perhaps a few of the leadership group of players have influenced the coaches and selectors decisions to play him this year.

I just watch games and see that the opposition hear footsteps when he’s around. Guys like Toby Greene and Kelly and Tarranto were fumbling when Longy was in tight. Speaking of tight. GWS were only 3 points down at 3 quarter time. Guess who Ratts asked to take their most dangerous forward? Long lined up against Toby Greene.

His ball handling in the wet and his disposal in Round 1 was exquisite. Ask Seb Ross and ask some of the other players who recieved the footy from him whether they want Gresh kicking to them or Ben Long

People keep bringing up his bumps as if that is a reason to keep him or play him. Do you think other teams are interested because he can lay a bump. Get real! His decision making and his ball use and his selflessness and team focus he is very good. With more games and encouragement and support and confidence from a coaching panel and from his team mates he will continue to improve.

You made a definitive statement about where Long ranks and I don’t agree with you. You’re not gunna change my mind that he is a better player than many Saintsational posters think he is.

As mentioned earlier. He is a scapegoat. He was dropped when half the team could have suffered the same fate after we were smashed by Essendon, Richmond and Port Adelaide

So you pick a player - Gresham - who has been unfortunate with injuries yet is a class above Long when fit and firing and can run through the midfield and is 3 times the forward than Long will ever be

And then Coff who is 10cm taller than Long and doesn't even play the same position as Long but if he did would be picked well before Long.

I mean if Long is such an integral part of the team with his hardness and exquisite ball handling why was he continually being dropped??

Players in front of Long in areas on the ground -

Small forward - Gresham, Higgins, Butler, Kent, Billings

Mids - Steele, Crouch, Jones, Gresham, Billings, Clark, Byrnes, Bytel, Hannebery, Hill, McKenzie, Ross, Higgins,

Backs - Sinclair, Webster, Paton, Coffield, Wilkie

Other players ahead of Long - Ryder, Marshall, Membrey, Howard, Sharman, Battle, Highmore, Wood

Retiring players that were ahead of Long - Carlisle, Roberton

That's 30 players who would get a game before Long

The other thing is that he now can't play his natural hard game for fear of being heavily suspended .... so what's left?? ..... his exquisite ball handling skills in the wet??

Sorry but he is expendable and if we can get a 2nd rounder then we are laughing

[Banger9798]

Who can do the maths on which pick we would need to receive from Essendon to ensure we got our NGAs

Lets assume we use pick 9 (which will become pick 11) on a young gun.

Lets assume another club picks Windhager at 26. We will need 532 points to counteroffer. Our pick 46 is worth 331 points and our pick 64 is worth 101 points = 432 . We are 100 points short.
Lets assume another club picks Owens at 40. We need 232 points and we have nothing.
100 + 232 = 332.
332 is about pick 34.

So we need pick 34 from Essendon on these assumptions. Or we pull forward our next year draft selections.

I think this is correct.

So we could potentially trade next year's second round pick if necessary? How do they attribute points to future picks? Is it based on your finishing position this year?