If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
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If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
I found the following article in today's paper about the state of affairs at GC Suns interesting reading and thought it's worth sharing on this forum:
"Party is over: boozy warning signs inside AFL’s $250m disaster club
by Michael Warner - Herald Sun
Gold Coast Suns football boss Jon Haines goes by the nickname “The Cameraman” at AFL HQ.
It’s a moniker Haines earned spectacularly for himself after filming senior coach Stuart Dew
urinating on a pub wall and posting it to friends on WhatsApp.
Alcohol has never been far from the equation at the hapless Queensland expansion club, as it
was last Saturday night when the beers were flowing freely for a large group of players at the
Burleigh Pavilion in Burleigh Heads.
Fresh off a listless 50-point loss to Port Adelaide, the celebrations spilled over to a raucous
houseparty at nearby Burleigh Waters that wound up in the early hours of Sunday morning.
Young players are allowed a social life, but for several observers it was another warning sign that
the wheels are again falling off at the AFL’s $250 million disaster club.
And while outspoken Suns chairman Tony Cochrane declared on Fox Footy on Monday night that
he did not believe the “go-home” retention factor would be a problem this time around, others
insist up to a dozen players, including top draft picks Ben Ainsworth, Will Brodie and Brayden
Fiorini, are eyeing the exit door.
It’s not the way highly-paid Gold Coast chief Mark Evans imagined it when he rolled into town
4½ years ago promising to fix the game’s cash-guzzling problem child.
At a gathering with a group of Melbourne football journalists at Cochrane’s Gold Coast home on
the eve of the 2017 season, Evans was asked why he had made the move from the AFL’s lofty
football operations post to become leader of the Suns. His response was that he wanted to
become the next chief of the AFL. But like so many who have come before him, Evans is finding
out that self-assurance doesn’t guarantee success.
More than two years ago, Evans launched the “Challenge Accepted” promotional campaign
aimed at reversing the flagging fortunes of the club.
“This is a real reset of mindset and attitude,” Evans declared. “We need to inspire the community
by what we do on the field and the manner in which we do that.”
But among the revellers on Saturday night were a group of Southport Sharks players from the
second-tier competition who now joke that they are the best football team on the Gold Coast.
The Suns under Evans’ watch even after being gifted another round of generous draft
concessions at the end of 2019 – have failed to break the cycle.
Evans has overseen the sacking of coach Rodney Eade and the appointments of Dew, Haines, list
boss Craig Cameron and coaching consultant Neil Craig.
After 74 games in charge, Dew, 41, has a worse win-loss record than the two senior coaches who
came before him – a miserable 22 per cent. Dew’s critics say he can be too emotional, takes
negative feedback badly and has fallen out with several assistant coaches.
Cochrane failed to fully endorse him this week, admitting that everyone at the expansion club
was under pressure.
“Let’s not gild the lily; the coach, the CEO, the president, we’re all under pressure, we’re all under
the pump, because we need to be. What we’re serving up, it’s not good enough. And that’s a
whole of club problem,” Cochrane said.
The delisting of the contracted Jarryd Lyons (a move not supported by Cochrane) has proved
embarrassing, a generous five-year deal for Adelaide’s Rory Atkins raised eyebrows and
Cochrane’s ill-timed barbs about Tasmania last week only shone a light back on his own club’s
operations.
Despite entering the competition 12 months after the Suns, Greater Western Sydney has
humiliated its older expansion brother with years of on-field excellence. The ground lost in player
development and player welfare in the Suns’ formative years has never been made up.
When it was suggested to a senior Suns official a few years ago that he should hire Giants
welfare managers Craig and Melissa Lambert to help bolster player retention, the official openly
laughed. A greater focus was belatedly placed in that space at the end of the 2018 season when
highly-respected Brisbane Lions Norm Smith medallist Shaun Hart and ex-Lion Matt Kennedy
headed up an expanded welfare team, but both have since left the club. Kennedy said this week
he had serious concerns about the club’s current leadership.
“There was a dismissiveness and a lack of acknowledgment about the problems at the club,” he
said. “They just didn’t want to know about the behaviour of senior club figures that is holding
them back. I’ve been on the coast since I was eight-yearsold and would love nothing more than a
powerhouse AFL team up here. And I’ve known some of the Suns players since they were
teenagers, have a deep affection for them and crave that they have some success.”
Kennedy and Hart presented a document to club bosses at the start of last year detailing what
they believed were the Suns’ cultural problems.
There was also a view that it was a mistake for prized draft picks Ben King and Jack Lukosius (and
later Matt Rowell and Noah Anderson) to be living at Evans’ Gold Coast home, singling them out
from teammates.
It goes to a “paranoia” one club figure said about the next batch of high-end talent walking out
on the club.
Others say the forced exits of respected assistant coaches Dean Solomon, Nick Malceski and
Ashley Prescott (as well as Hart and Kennedy) during last year’s Covid cuts ripped the soul out of
the club.
They say it’s an indictment that many of the Suns’ sacked staff are now entrenched in key roles in
local football – Malceski is coaching Labrador in the QAFL, while Steve Daniel, Matt Lappin and
Matthew Primus are on the coaching panel at Southport.
Few past players, coaches or front office staff have ever left the club on good terms as the
leaking of the damning Haines video last year demonstrated.
Former Collingwood president Eddie McGuire last week hinted at the prospect of further football
department concessions for the Suns, but patience among rival clubs is wearing thin.
Next up for the Gold Coast is a clash against the bottom placed Kangaroos in Tasmania
– an Australian rules heartland state some are now saying should be given its own team at the
expense of the Suns."
"Party is over: boozy warning signs inside AFL’s $250m disaster club
by Michael Warner - Herald Sun
Gold Coast Suns football boss Jon Haines goes by the nickname “The Cameraman” at AFL HQ.
It’s a moniker Haines earned spectacularly for himself after filming senior coach Stuart Dew
urinating on a pub wall and posting it to friends on WhatsApp.
Alcohol has never been far from the equation at the hapless Queensland expansion club, as it
was last Saturday night when the beers were flowing freely for a large group of players at the
Burleigh Pavilion in Burleigh Heads.
Fresh off a listless 50-point loss to Port Adelaide, the celebrations spilled over to a raucous
houseparty at nearby Burleigh Waters that wound up in the early hours of Sunday morning.
Young players are allowed a social life, but for several observers it was another warning sign that
the wheels are again falling off at the AFL’s $250 million disaster club.
And while outspoken Suns chairman Tony Cochrane declared on Fox Footy on Monday night that
he did not believe the “go-home” retention factor would be a problem this time around, others
insist up to a dozen players, including top draft picks Ben Ainsworth, Will Brodie and Brayden
Fiorini, are eyeing the exit door.
It’s not the way highly-paid Gold Coast chief Mark Evans imagined it when he rolled into town
4½ years ago promising to fix the game’s cash-guzzling problem child.
At a gathering with a group of Melbourne football journalists at Cochrane’s Gold Coast home on
the eve of the 2017 season, Evans was asked why he had made the move from the AFL’s lofty
football operations post to become leader of the Suns. His response was that he wanted to
become the next chief of the AFL. But like so many who have come before him, Evans is finding
out that self-assurance doesn’t guarantee success.
More than two years ago, Evans launched the “Challenge Accepted” promotional campaign
aimed at reversing the flagging fortunes of the club.
“This is a real reset of mindset and attitude,” Evans declared. “We need to inspire the community
by what we do on the field and the manner in which we do that.”
But among the revellers on Saturday night were a group of Southport Sharks players from the
second-tier competition who now joke that they are the best football team on the Gold Coast.
The Suns under Evans’ watch even after being gifted another round of generous draft
concessions at the end of 2019 – have failed to break the cycle.
Evans has overseen the sacking of coach Rodney Eade and the appointments of Dew, Haines, list
boss Craig Cameron and coaching consultant Neil Craig.
After 74 games in charge, Dew, 41, has a worse win-loss record than the two senior coaches who
came before him – a miserable 22 per cent. Dew’s critics say he can be too emotional, takes
negative feedback badly and has fallen out with several assistant coaches.
Cochrane failed to fully endorse him this week, admitting that everyone at the expansion club
was under pressure.
“Let’s not gild the lily; the coach, the CEO, the president, we’re all under pressure, we’re all under
the pump, because we need to be. What we’re serving up, it’s not good enough. And that’s a
whole of club problem,” Cochrane said.
The delisting of the contracted Jarryd Lyons (a move not supported by Cochrane) has proved
embarrassing, a generous five-year deal for Adelaide’s Rory Atkins raised eyebrows and
Cochrane’s ill-timed barbs about Tasmania last week only shone a light back on his own club’s
operations.
Despite entering the competition 12 months after the Suns, Greater Western Sydney has
humiliated its older expansion brother with years of on-field excellence. The ground lost in player
development and player welfare in the Suns’ formative years has never been made up.
When it was suggested to a senior Suns official a few years ago that he should hire Giants
welfare managers Craig and Melissa Lambert to help bolster player retention, the official openly
laughed. A greater focus was belatedly placed in that space at the end of the 2018 season when
highly-respected Brisbane Lions Norm Smith medallist Shaun Hart and ex-Lion Matt Kennedy
headed up an expanded welfare team, but both have since left the club. Kennedy said this week
he had serious concerns about the club’s current leadership.
“There was a dismissiveness and a lack of acknowledgment about the problems at the club,” he
said. “They just didn’t want to know about the behaviour of senior club figures that is holding
them back. I’ve been on the coast since I was eight-yearsold and would love nothing more than a
powerhouse AFL team up here. And I’ve known some of the Suns players since they were
teenagers, have a deep affection for them and crave that they have some success.”
Kennedy and Hart presented a document to club bosses at the start of last year detailing what
they believed were the Suns’ cultural problems.
There was also a view that it was a mistake for prized draft picks Ben King and Jack Lukosius (and
later Matt Rowell and Noah Anderson) to be living at Evans’ Gold Coast home, singling them out
from teammates.
It goes to a “paranoia” one club figure said about the next batch of high-end talent walking out
on the club.
Others say the forced exits of respected assistant coaches Dean Solomon, Nick Malceski and
Ashley Prescott (as well as Hart and Kennedy) during last year’s Covid cuts ripped the soul out of
the club.
They say it’s an indictment that many of the Suns’ sacked staff are now entrenched in key roles in
local football – Malceski is coaching Labrador in the QAFL, while Steve Daniel, Matt Lappin and
Matthew Primus are on the coaching panel at Southport.
Few past players, coaches or front office staff have ever left the club on good terms as the
leaking of the damning Haines video last year demonstrated.
Former Collingwood president Eddie McGuire last week hinted at the prospect of further football
department concessions for the Suns, but patience among rival clubs is wearing thin.
Next up for the Gold Coast is a clash against the bottom placed Kangaroos in Tasmania
– an Australian rules heartland state some are now saying should be given its own team at the
expense of the Suns."
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened."
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
- Ghost Like
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
That's ugly, very ugly. We almost seem professional in comparison. Time for the AFL to admit defeat and do the right thing and make a club in Tasmania. This farce has gone on too long.
Give players the opportunity to go to St Kilda, Tasmania or a special draft...in that order.
Give players the opportunity to go to St Kilda, Tasmania or a special draft...in that order.
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
My takeaway was the effect the COVID cuts had on the club. Morale always takes a nose dive when there are sackings due to economic stress.
I wonder how much we are suffering from COVID cuts?
I wonder how much we are suffering from COVID cuts?
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
My take was players up there don’t give a f***
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Dew has issues according to that report, and not just with his diet.
I can't believe Dew was Paul Roos' first choice as his successor at Melbourne, Goodwin was second choice, Demons dodged a bullet there.
I wonder if the "cameraman" goes at year's end, amongst others.
I can't believe Dew was Paul Roos' first choice as his successor at Melbourne, Goodwin was second choice, Demons dodged a bullet there.
I wonder if the "cameraman" goes at year's end, amongst others.
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
after this season so far I'm wondering if some of our players give one.
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Living in Brisbane I am quite sure that an AFL team on the Gold Coast is unlikely to ever become a long term success. This is also the case for all other major football codes - Rugby League, Rugby Union and Soccer, all of which have tried and failed, despite throwing buckets of money at the ventures.
Gold Coast Titans are not faring too badly in the NRL but they remain without any real success, having played finals only 3 times since they debuted in 2007, and financially still a basket case!
I can understand that the AFL want to see the competition represented all over the country, helps their case when they renew the broadcasting rights, but at the heart of the problem is that the Gold Coast is predominantly a tourism destination, with a very large transient population, and a very high proportion of permanent residents being retirees who have headed north to the warmer climate to see out their years. Many of the latter that come from the AFL states, especially Victorians, tend to stick with their Melbourne teams.
On the occasions when I have attended a game at Metricon to watch the Saints play, the ground has been barely half-full...
Recent reports that there has been a really strong case submitted to the AFL for a team in Tasmania suggests to me that the AFL should make the tough call and put an end to this misery on the Gold Coast, and transfer the licence to Tasmania. Part of the deal should be to offer GC Suns players financial incentives to move to the Tasmanian team.
The AFL will undoubtedly cop a lot of flak for such a decision because removing the GC Suns from the competition leaves a lot of issues (apart from the players and club staff) to be resolved. Carrara Stadium is operated by the GC Suns under an agreement with the owners, the Queensland Government and that will require some sorting out. Then there is the GC Suns AFL Academy which tenders to the youth from northern NSW, the Gold Coast, north Queensland and from Townsville to the Cape, and Darwin.
None of these matters are insurmountable and I doubt that any vitriol would be long-lasting.....
Gold Coast Titans are not faring too badly in the NRL but they remain without any real success, having played finals only 3 times since they debuted in 2007, and financially still a basket case!
I can understand that the AFL want to see the competition represented all over the country, helps their case when they renew the broadcasting rights, but at the heart of the problem is that the Gold Coast is predominantly a tourism destination, with a very large transient population, and a very high proportion of permanent residents being retirees who have headed north to the warmer climate to see out their years. Many of the latter that come from the AFL states, especially Victorians, tend to stick with their Melbourne teams.
On the occasions when I have attended a game at Metricon to watch the Saints play, the ground has been barely half-full...
Recent reports that there has been a really strong case submitted to the AFL for a team in Tasmania suggests to me that the AFL should make the tough call and put an end to this misery on the Gold Coast, and transfer the licence to Tasmania. Part of the deal should be to offer GC Suns players financial incentives to move to the Tasmanian team.
The AFL will undoubtedly cop a lot of flak for such a decision because removing the GC Suns from the competition leaves a lot of issues (apart from the players and club staff) to be resolved. Carrara Stadium is operated by the GC Suns under an agreement with the owners, the Queensland Government and that will require some sorting out. Then there is the GC Suns AFL Academy which tenders to the youth from northern NSW, the Gold Coast, north Queensland and from Townsville to the Cape, and Darwin.
None of these matters are insurmountable and I doubt that any vitriol would be long-lasting.....
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened."
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) American writer and humorist
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
You would hope we are better. So far no compromising photos, tick.
Economic reality means the clock is ticking down for the Suns, AFL just doesn't have unlimited resources to throw at them any more and surely the other clubs are fed up with Suns' draft concessions that they just waste.
We can't get complacent either, really need to play some good footy. Soon.
Economic reality means the clock is ticking down for the Suns, AFL just doesn't have unlimited resources to throw at them any more and surely the other clubs are fed up with Suns' draft concessions that they just waste.
We can't get complacent either, really need to play some good footy. Soon.
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
If they want to merge with a Victorian club....the StKilda Suns?
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
GC are a glowing example of eco-rattionalism at its worst. The other side of that coin is poor Tasmania -I’m not referring to their government or semi-governmental polities (they’d be just as horrid, just as barren and devoid of soul as any in the land). I’m referring to Tassie football culture, which has been dying on the vine as we continually freeze them out whilst pumping millions into the Gold Coast.
I only hope GC survive for two reasons. 1) to show us how ugly our circus has become and give us a sense of value to heritage and the warmth that provides us in the impersonal and politicized world we now inhabit. , 2) four points every season for the Saints (which isn’t very smart as every other team gets em too) The key is to play GC after the bye, when they truly don’t give a fish and chips about the result.
I only hope GC survive for two reasons. 1) to show us how ugly our circus has become and give us a sense of value to heritage and the warmth that provides us in the impersonal and politicized world we now inhabit. , 2) four points every season for the Saints (which isn’t very smart as every other team gets em too) The key is to play GC after the bye, when they truly don’t give a fish and chips about the result.
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Political post or just more rubbish?
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Yeah we do but I doubt that either of us will add any more to their tally in the foreseeable future
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Getting a little desperate with this theory I think. Covid has nothing to do with the state of either club.
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
All I know is we need to get Ben King to the Saints while the s*** is in the fan…we might not get another shot
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Yep ....it’s not often we get to say to potential incoming players ..The Recruit wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:27pm All I know is we need to get Ben King to the Saints while the s*** is in the fan…we might not get another shot
“We are shyte”.....”they’re shytter...”
Act now!
Seb Ross perfect elder statesmen for them ...
“Yeah….nah””
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
They won't want Ross in exchange for their best forward, they'll want what GWS got for Cameron.Teflon wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:26pmYep ....it’s not often we get to say to potential incoming players ..The Recruit wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:27pm All I know is we need to get Ben King to the Saints while the s*** is in the fan…we might not get another shot
“We are shyte”.....”they’re shytter...”
Act now!
Seb Ross perfect elder statesmen for them ...
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Cameron is an AA and Coleman Medallist who has played in a GF
King doesn’t have that sort of Resume
I would do a future first rounder 2022, Billings Compo this season, and one of (Battle, Coffield, Long) for King + Fiorini + future 3rd
Seb Ross would be a seperate trade to somehow get Narkle
King doesn’t have that sort of Resume
I would do a future first rounder 2022, Billings Compo this season, and one of (Battle, Coffield, Long) for King + Fiorini + future 3rd
Seb Ross would be a seperate trade to somehow get Narkle
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
I didn’t suggest Ross for King ....but if he helps in a deal get it over the line with something coming back ...I’m happy to accommodateWayne42 wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:13amThey won't want Ross in exchange for their best forward, they'll want what GWS got for Cameron.Teflon wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:26pmYep ....it’s not often we get to say to potential incoming players ..The Recruit wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:27pm All I know is we need to get Ben King to the Saints while the s*** is in the fan…we might not get another shot
“We are shyte”.....”they’re shytter...”
Act now!
Seb Ross perfect elder statesmen for them ...
“Yeah….nah””
- Wayne42
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
End of 2022, when Bing is out of contract, maybe we'll find out.Teflon wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:50amI didn’t suggest Ross for King ....but if he helps in a deal get it over the line with something coming back ...I’m happy to accommodateWayne42 wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:13amThey won't want Ross in exchange for their best forward, they'll want what GWS got for Cameron.Teflon wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:26pmYep ....it’s not often we get to say to potential incoming players ..The Recruit wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:27pm All I know is we need to get Ben King to the Saints while the s*** is in the fan…we might not get another shot
“We are shyte”.....”they’re shytter...”
Act now!
Seb Ross perfect elder statesmen for them ...
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Cant hurt to ask now while theyre in turmoil and IF they suspect he’s going to leave next year wouldn’t GC be better off trading now when they have a stronger hand??Wayne42 wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 1:11amEnd of 2022, when Bing is out of contract, maybe we'll find out.Teflon wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:50amI didn’t suggest Ross for King ....but if he helps in a deal get it over the line with something coming back ...I’m happy to accommodateWayne42 wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:13amThey won't want Ross in exchange for their best forward, they'll want what GWS got for Cameron.Teflon wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:26pmYep ....it’s not often we get to say to potential incoming players ..The Recruit wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:27pm All I know is we need to get Ben King to the Saints while the s*** is in the fan…we might not get another shot
“We are shyte”.....”they’re shytter...”
Act now!
Seb Ross perfect elder statesmen for them ...
“Yeah….nah””
- Wayne42
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
I don't think they'll trade him, they've got no one else to replace him and how often does a Thilthorpe type first year forward get drafted, not very so they'd be knackered.Teflon wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 1:16amCant hurt to ask now while theyre in turmoil and IF they suspect he’s going to leave next year wouldn’t GC be better off trading now when they have a stronger hand??Wayne42 wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 1:11amEnd of 2022, when Bing is out of contract, maybe we'll find out.Teflon wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:50amI didn’t suggest Ross for King ....but if he helps in a deal get it over the line with something coming back ...I’m happy to accommodateWayne42 wrote: ↑Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:13amThey won't want Ross in exchange for their best forward, they'll want what GWS got for Cameron.Teflon wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:26pmYep ....it’s not often we get to say to potential incoming players ..The Recruit wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:27pm All I know is we need to get Ben King to the Saints while the s*** is in the fan…we might not get another shot
“We are shyte”.....”they’re shytter...”
Act now!
Seb Ross perfect elder statesmen for them ...
Cochrane and the AFL wouldn't sign off on Bing going in 2021.
And they want to keep Bing and find a 2nd key Forward to support him, that's what their plan is, apparently.
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
True but still I’d nibble..
The other way to look at Duns needing a second forward is they know keeping him will be hard..
The other way to look at Duns needing a second forward is they know keeping him will be hard..
“Yeah….nah””
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- Saintsational Legend
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Re: If you think St Kilda has team culture issues, how about the GC Suns!
Yeah there was refernece to how moral had been effected due to the assistants being sacked due to COVID cuts. I also note that our club has had to make several cutbacks due to COVID including being only one of 2 clubs (I think us and WCE) to ask their players to take a haircut on their paypackets. I'm pretty sure that measure alone would have been accepted with great enthusiasm.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Thu 24 Jun 2021 7:18pmGetting a little desperate with this theory I think. Covid has nothing to do with the state of either club.