Why False Optimism Is Demented And Dangerous

[saintadamski]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

[gwiltyascharged]

Brett Ratten = Positive.
Would be nice to get a young fresh face in to the coaching panel.
Maybe someone like Dale Morris or something along those lines.

[takeaway]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

So you see the "reality" of what the club does, and then bag some decisions of the club, and also state that supporters with more positive views are a major part of the problem, and all that has nothing to do with positive or negative?
OK ................. carry on then.

[asiu]

i knocked it off it was so good !!!!


thats why it was in quotation


Classic ay

[saintadamski]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

So you see the "reality" of what the club does, and then bag some decisions of the club, and also state that supporters with more positive views are a major part of the problem, and all that has nothing to do with positive or negative?
OK ................. carry on then.

Your previous post is beyond confusing...I have absolutely no idea what you're saying that I'm saying... please attempt to articulate yourself with more clarity.

Let me repeat myself.
The 'reality' is that the recruiting and playing list is abysmal.

You can try and put whatever positive bullsh*t you want on it...if it makes you feel better. ...but that is not the reality of thre situation.

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.
The REALITY is we need better players and head coach.

The positive, is that good assistant coaches have been brought in.

Now, please continue telling everyone how good Newnes is.... it's amusing reading...

[Cairnsman]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

So you see the "reality" of what the club does, and then bag some decisions of the club, and also state that supporters with more positive views are a major part of the problem, and all that has nothing to do with positive or negative?
OK ................. carry on then.

Your previous post is beyond confusing...I have absolutely no idea what you're saying that I'm saying... please attempt to articulate yourself with more clarity.

Let me repeat myself.
The 'reality' is that the recruiting and playing list is abysmal.

You can try and put whatever positive bullsh*t you want on it...if it makes you feel better. ...but that is not the reality of thre situation.

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.
The REALITY is we need better players and head coach.

The positive, is that good assistant coaches have been brought in.

Now, please continue telling everyone how good Newnes is.... it's amusing reading...

I love the intensity, it's like you've got the market cornered on "reality".

[takeaway]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

So you see the "reality" of what the club does, and then bag some decisions of the club, and also state that supporters with more positive views are a major part of the problem, and all that has nothing to do with positive or negative?
OK ................. carry on then.

Your previous post is beyond confusing...I have absolutely no idea what you're saying that I'm saying... please attempt to articulate yourself with more clarity.

Let me repeat myself.
The 'reality' is that the recruiting and playing list is abysmal.

You can try and put whatever positive bullsh*t you want on it...if it makes you feel better. ...but that is not the reality of thre situation.

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.
The REALITY is we need better players and head coach.

The positive, is that good assistant coaches have been brought in.

Now, please continue telling everyone how good Newnes is.... it's amusing reading...

So you are saying that the reality is whatever YOU espouse, and anyone else with varying opinions is not looking at reality. I bow to you, Oh learned one. You need to go forth and spread your message, because I fear the majority are not in your real world.

[gwiltyascharged]

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.

I feel like even 3rd bottom is unrealistic.
I mean Gold Coast don't even deserve to be counted. They really shouldnt be in the league at all.
They are on a whole different level of bad.
There was something very unedifying about Richo doing that fist pump after beating them.

[WellardSaint]

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.

I feel like even 3rd bottom is unrealistic.
I mean Gold Coast don't even deserve to be counted. They really shouldnt be in the league at all.
They are on a whole different level of bad.
There was something very unedifying about Richo doing that fist pump after beating them.

correct, the GC is an artificial construct, they have no history as well as being based in a sporting black hole where sports teams are born but soon disappear without so much as a whimper.

The current list (aside from Hannebery and Kent) is light on for real talent and leadership- Steven doesn't want to be captain, and no players seemingly want to be accountable, so they all vote for a guy who 'tries really hard' but has the skills of a dementia patient.

[Whiskey]

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.

I feel like even 3rd bottom is unrealistic.
I mean Gold Coast don't even deserve to be counted. They really shouldnt be in the league at all.
They are on a whole different level of bad.
There was something very unedifying about Richo doing that fist pump after beating them.

correct, the GC is an artificial construct, they have no history as well as being based in a sporting black hole where sports teams are born but soon disappear without so much as a whimper.

The current list (aside from Hannebery and Kent) is light on for real talent and leadership- Steven doesn't want to be captain, and no players seemingly want to be accountable, so they all vote for a guy who 'tries really hard' but has the skills of a dementia patient.

Ha ha gold!

[samuraisaint]

Brett Ratten = Positive.
Would be nice to get a young fresh face in to the coaching panel.
Maybe someone like Dale Morris or something along those lines.

You know, I may be mistaken, but I do believe your username may just be the most ingenious one I have seen since I joined this forum. Well played Sir!

[satchmo]

Brett Ratten = Positive.
Would be nice to get a young fresh face in to the coaching panel.
Maybe someone like Dale Morris or something along those lines.

You know, I may be mistaken, but I do believe your username may just be the most ingenious one I have seen since I joined this forum. Well played Sir!

He's had a few cracks at it

[derby Street]

Brett Ratten = Positive.
Would be nice to get a young fresh face in to the coaching panel.
Maybe someone like Dale Morris or something along those lines.

You know, I may be mistaken, but I do believe your username may just be the most ingenious one I have seen since I joined this forum. Well played Sir!

He's had a few cracks at it

Yep - I am just waiting for the inevitable.

[saintadamski]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

So you see the "reality" of what the club does, and then bag some decisions of the club, and also state that supporters with more positive views are a major part of the problem, and all that has nothing to do with positive or negative?
OK ................. carry on then.

Your previous post is beyond confusing...I have absolutely no idea what you're saying that I'm saying... please attempt to articulate yourself with more clarity.

Let me repeat myself.
The 'reality' is that the recruiting and playing list is abysmal.

You can try and put whatever positive bullsh*t you want on it...if it makes you feel better. ...but that is not the reality of thre situation.

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.
The REALITY is we need better players and head coach.

The positive, is that good assistant coaches have been brought in.

Now, please continue telling everyone how good Newnes is.... it's amusing reading...

So you are saying that the reality is whatever YOU espouse, and anyone else with varying opinions is not looking at reality. I bow to you, Oh learned one. You need to go forth and spread your message, because I fear the majority are not in your real world.

omg are you completely thick?!

Us finishing 3rd bottom is NOT what I espouse...IT IS WHAT FU*KING HAPPENED.
Us having an inferior playing list is NOT what I espouse...US FINISHING 3rd BOTTOM IS THE LIVING BREATHING PROOF OF THIS LIST

My God...It has now gotten to the stage where by mentioning actual facts, you are accused by the delusional, of not living in the 'real world'

Should I have said we finished top of the ladder, and that Newnes is a super star?!?!
Would I now be free from your absurd ridicule?!?!

The earth IS NOT flat you fool.....it is round....round as a billiard ball!

[takeaway]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

So you see the "reality" of what the club does, and then bag some decisions of the club, and also state that supporters with more positive views are a major part of the problem, and all that has nothing to do with positive or negative?
OK ................. carry on then.

Your previous post is beyond confusing...I have absolutely no idea what you're saying that I'm saying... please attempt to articulate yourself with more clarity.

Let me repeat myself.
The 'reality' is that the recruiting and playing list is abysmal.

You can try and put whatever positive bullsh*t you want on it...if it makes you feel better. ...but that is not the reality of thre situation.

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.
The REALITY is we need better players and head coach.

The positive, is that good assistant coaches have been brought in.

Now, please continue telling everyone how good Newnes is.... it's amusing reading...

So you are saying that the reality is whatever YOU espouse, and anyone else with varying opinions is not looking at reality. I bow to you, Oh learned one. You need to go forth and spread your message, because I fear the majority are not in your real world.

omg are you completely thick?!

Us finishing 3rd bottom is NOT what I espouse...IT IS WHAT FU*KING HAPPENED.
Us having an inferior playing list is NOT what I espouse...US FINISHING 3rd BOTTOM IS THE LIVING BREATHING PROOF OF THIS LIST

My God...It has now gotten to the stage where by mentioning actual facts, you are accused by the delusional, of not living in the 'real world'

Should I have said we finished top of the ladder, and that Newnes is a super star?!?!
Would I now be free from your absurd ridicule?!?!

The earth IS NOT flat you fool.....it is round....round as a ball!

So the list is inferior now, not abysmal. What about your other "realities", ie recruiting - is that still abysmal? Newnes, Savage, Geary not good enough? These are all your OPINIONS, not reality or facts. The only true "reality" you mentioned is that we finished 3rd bottom, you have given your opinion on some causes for that, others may have different causes and opinions. Kapiche?

The earth round? Another of your false realities - it is an oblate spheroid.

[saintadamski]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

So you see the "reality" of what the club does, and then bag some decisions of the club, and also state that supporters with more positive views are a major part of the problem, and all that has nothing to do with positive or negative?
OK ................. carry on then.

Your previous post is beyond confusing...I have absolutely no idea what you're saying that I'm saying... please attempt to articulate yourself with more clarity.

Let me repeat myself.
The 'reality' is that the recruiting and playing list is abysmal.

You can try and put whatever positive bullsh*t you want on it...if it makes you feel better. ...but that is not the reality of thre situation.

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.
The REALITY is we need better players and head coach.

The positive, is that good assistant coaches have been brought in.

Now, please continue telling everyone how good Newnes is.... it's amusing reading...

So you are saying that the reality is whatever YOU espouse, and anyone else with varying opinions is not looking at reality. I bow to you, Oh learned one. You need to go forth and spread your message, because I fear the majority are not in your real world.

omg are you completely thick?!

Us finishing 3rd bottom is NOT what I espouse...IT IS WHAT FU*KING HAPPENED.
Us having an inferior playing list is NOT what I espouse...US FINISHING 3rd BOTTOM IS THE LIVING BREATHING PROOF OF THIS LIST

My God...It has now gotten to the stage where by mentioning actual facts, you are accused by the delusional, of not living in the 'real world'

Should I have said we finished top of the ladder, and that Newnes is a super star?!?!
Would I now be free from your absurd ridicule?!?!

The earth IS NOT flat you fool.....it is round....round as a ball!

So the list is inferior now, not abysmal. What about your other "realities", ie recruiting - is that still abysmal? Newnes, Savage, Geary not good enough? These are all your OPINIONS, not reality or facts. The only true "reality" you mentioned is that we finished 3rd bottom, you have given your opinion on some causes for that, others may have different causes and opinions. Kapiche?

The earth round? Another of your false realities - it is an oblate spheroid.

Omg wow

You're right, I give up...our list and coach ARE good enough...we just finished bottom three because we were just way too good.

Next year when we finish bottom 3 again, it will be because Geary is awesome, Savage is A grade, and Newnes is a freaking superstar.

Possible causes and opinions for finishing bottom 3 (other than the ridiculous idea of not being good enough):
- we didn't want to appear arrogant by winning games
- shoe laces were untied a lot... sack the shoelace guy
- Used the wrong brand of deep heat at half time
- The ball had a positive magnet to the opponents negative magnet at their goal...ours was positive to positive, thus repelling the ball
- Newnes' first tackle after 7 rounds was because he was scared he'd hurt someone...as he is a seriously decent bloke.
- Richo's tactical genius was to hustle other teams in 2018, therefore catching them completely off guard in 2019, by giving them a false sense of security over the past 5 years

Thank you so much for putting me on the right path....I really lost my way with this whole " we aren't good enough" thing

Phew am I relieved!

[groupie1]

pick 4

yeah, sorry, cheers

[takeaway]

The club has gotten rid of about 1/5 of the playing list and most of the senior coaches this off-season. They are clearly doing something about a problem, so why can't people be optimistic about it? Should we continue to bag the club even as they make changes?

You can't be serious.

The only player they got rid of who actually played more than 2 senior games was Weller.

You think getting rid of Freeman and Goddard just as they were getting their bodies right was 'doing something about a problem'??

Doing something about a problem would be delisting Newnes, Savage, Armitage, Dunstan, Brown, etc.
Putting Geary in the VFL and trading Paddy.

Then, starting to play and develop the youngsters like Patton every week!!! Rather then destroying their confidence as emergencies.

You clearly view everything the club does as negative. The simple fact is that Freeman and Goddard weren't good enough along with the others that were delisted. A bloke like Newnes has actually shown a lot at AFL level - had a terrible season last year but there may be more to it.

The fact that you think we should de-list Savage but keep Freeman suggests you're not actually rating the players on their ability. I mean in terms of Savage, Newnes and Dunstan, all those players have shown they are capable at AFL level so at worst they are good depth.

But yes, let's delist half the playing list. That will help.

No. I see the reality of what the club does. This has nothing to do with negative nor positive.

Freeman and Goddard not good enough? How the hell would anyone know?? They were never given a shot...but I can tell you categorically that Newnes, Savage and co ARE NOT good enough.
Newnes showed at AFL level? showed what? How to turn the ball over consistently? How to never make effective tackles....in that case he showed PLENTY.

No, let's keep them all....in fact let's keep playing them weekly time and time again, and watch our incredible rocket up the ladder followed by a glorious premiership.

Supporters like you are a major part of the problem at St.Kilda. ... eyes, ears and mouth closed, with "Everything is fine" as your mantra...F*ck your mantra
...and this is why the club is run by inept individuals who are unaccountable for their incompetence.

It's time to start blooding our younger players. To stop playing the likes of Newnes, Geary and Savage, who are preventing the players who may have actual talent to flourish.

Richo will be sacked in about round 6 after some horrid defeats....

The positive, is some accomplished assistant coaches that have been brought in.

So you see the "reality" of what the club does, and then bag some decisions of the club, and also state that supporters with more positive views are a major part of the problem, and all that has nothing to do with positive or negative?
OK ................. carry on then.

Your previous post is beyond confusing...I have absolutely no idea what you're saying that I'm saying... please attempt to articulate yourself with more clarity.

Let me repeat myself.
The 'reality' is that the recruiting and playing list is abysmal.

You can try and put whatever positive bullsh*t you want on it...if it makes you feel better. ...but that is not the reality of thre situation.

The REALITY is that we finished 3rd bottom.
The REALITY is we need better players and head coach.

The positive, is that good assistant coaches have been brought in.

Now, please continue telling everyone how good Newnes is.... it's amusing reading...

So you are saying that the reality is whatever YOU espouse, and anyone else with varying opinions is not looking at reality. I bow to you, Oh learned one. You need to go forth and spread your message, because I fear the majority are not in your real world.

omg are you completely thick?!

Us finishing 3rd bottom is NOT what I espouse...IT IS WHAT FU*KING HAPPENED.
Us having an inferior playing list is NOT what I espouse...US FINISHING 3rd BOTTOM IS THE LIVING BREATHING PROOF OF THIS LIST

My God...It has now gotten to the stage where by mentioning actual facts, you are accused by the delusional, of not living in the 'real world'

Should I have said we finished top of the ladder, and that Newnes is a super star?!?!
Would I now be free from your absurd ridicule?!?!

The earth IS NOT flat you fool.....it is round....round as a ball!

So the list is inferior now, not abysmal. What about your other "realities", ie recruiting - is that still abysmal? Newnes, Savage, Geary not good enough? These are all your OPINIONS, not reality or facts. The only true "reality" you mentioned is that we finished 3rd bottom, you have given your opinion on some causes for that, others may have different causes and opinions. Kapiche?

The earth round? Another of your false realities - it is an oblate spheroid.

Omg wow

You're right, I give up...our list and coach ARE good enough...we just finished bottom three because we were just way too good.

Next year when we finish bottom 3 again, it will be because Geary is awesome, Savage is A grade, and Newnes is a freaking superstar.

Possible causes and opinions for finishing bottom 3 (other than the ridiculous idea of not being good enough):
- we didn't want to appear arrogant by winning games
- shoe laces were untied a lot... sack the shoelace guy
- Used the wrong brand of deep heat at half time
- The ball had a positive magnet to the opponents negative magnet at their goal...ours was positive to positive, thus repelling the ball
- Newnes' first tackle after 7 rounds was because he was scared he'd hurt someone...as he is a seriously decent bloke.
- Richo's tactical genius was to hustle other teams in 2018, therefore catching them completely off guard in 2019, by giving them a false sense of security over the past 5 years

Thank you so much for putting me on the right path....I really lost my way with this whole " we aren't good enough" thing

Phew am I relieved!

Wrong end of the stick again. Where have I said everything is rosy and the list etc is fine? In our little tete a tete I haven't expressed any views on why we finished 3rd bottom - you have. I merely disagreed with you putting forward your VIEWS as reality or fact. Simple as that.

[saintadamski]

wow this is a multi ended stick!...

You speak in circles, going absolutely nowhere, in some kind of arrogant attempt to occupy the throne of the great arbiter of truth.

Truth is we finished 3rd bottom, with a piss poor list and coach.

Oh great arbiter, please wield your multi ended stick of truth, and bamboozle us all

I'm now bored, so I won't reply again - but I'm sure you'll reply with some sort of vague metaphor of opinion vs fact

Go fact yourself haha

[takeaway]

wow this is a multi ended stick!...

You speak in circles, going absolutely nowhere, in some kind of arrogant attempt to occupy the throne of the great arbiter of truth.

Truth is we finished 3rd bottom, with a piss poor list and coach.

Oh great arbiter, please wield your multi ended stick of truth, and bamboozle us all

I'm now bored, so I won't reply again - but I'm sure you'll reply with some sort of vague metaphor of opinion vs fact

Go fact yourself haha

Just need to repeat a quote just posted on another thread from one of the great SS posters, one who on some issues would agree with you, SaintPav:

”If it is not right do not do it; if it is not TRUE, don't say it” (Aurelius, M)

You may consider posting in future without your virtual reality goggles on.

[Crossy66]

wow this is a multi ended stick!...

You speak in circles, going absolutely nowhere, in some kind of arrogant attempt to occupy the throne of the great arbiter of truth.

Truth is we finished 3rd bottom, with a piss poor list and coach.

Oh great arbiter, please wield your multi ended stick of truth, and bamboozle us all

I'm now bored, so I won't reply again - but I'm sure you'll reply with some sort of vague metaphor of opinion vs fact

Go fact yourself haha

Interesting debate.
I would add that where you finish on the ladder is a fact, but what the cause is, is not.
I.e. Tigers 13 to 1st, Pies 13 to first. I remember Collingwood going from last to a multiple grand finals and a prelim three consecutive years late 70's.
Clearly the Tigers list , recruiting and coach was not Abysmal. Add a two players and they become the benchmark. (BTW not saying we are the Tigers or Pies!)

The Saints had a bad year thats a fact, but the cause, imho, is the sum of many parts such as:

The List - I dont think our list is too bad, its unbalanced. There are a number of players who could go A grade with the right coaching and we missed bidding on Elites
Development and coaching - we've made a heap of changes for 2019, so Club sees this as a major factor
Recruitment - We've changed that. But our strategy in a period of compromised drafts proved to be flawed
Leadership - Absolutely didnt understand the impact Roo and Joey's departure would cause, Recruiting a Hannabery is a positive
The Draw - Much harder than 2017
Injuries - Lost a large number of key players at the wrong time
Loss of confidence and form from our young rising stars under intense media scrutiny, no onfield leadership to help them through it
Lethlean - Finding his feet, but now seems to be getting stuck into it - The impact of change may take some time.

I heard Clarko quoted as saying that the biggest key to sustained success is stability and i think lack of it at the Saints would be as much a reason as any that Elite players are spooked at the thought of coming to us.
Looking forward, Better coaches, a couple of good recruits, organic growth, Richo coaching for his life, coupled with hopefully a better draw and better luck with injuries, i reckon we will go ok. But we seriously need to pick up a couple of elite mids next year to seriously threaten.

[The Fireman]

if you were asked which clubs you thought were professionally run, would you include The Saints? .... that's ok I already know the answer.... so why hell would any decent player choose to come here ? unless of course the money was so much to be too good to knock back.

[iwantmeseats]

if you were asked which clubs you thought were professionally run, would you include The Saints? .... that's ok I already know the answer.... so why hell would any decent player choose to come here ? unless of course the money was so much to be too good to knock back.

Club is an embarassment.
You are 100% correct.

[Crossy66]

if you were asked which clubs you thought were professionally run, would you include The Saints? .... that's ok I already know the answer.... so why hell would any decent player choose to come here ? unless of course the money was so much to be too good to knock back.

Club is an embarassment.
You are 100% correct.

Not sure its as straight forward as that. No doubt the answer would have been no atleast up until recently. The difficulty is that it needs to be well run for a while before the benefits flow and then everyone says its well run. I think that as each week goes by, Lethlean seems to be pulling the right rein so perhaps we have turned the corner.
So i hope it continues. Getting back to Moorabbin was huge, AFLW will be good, drafting last two years ok, coaching changes are a tick, change of Prez , Rich on notice etc.
May be we are in a better place right now!

[gwiltyascharged]

Interesting debate.
I would add that where you finish on the ladder is a fact, but what the cause is, is not.
I.e. Tigers 13 to 1st, Pies 13 to first. I remember Collingwood going from last to a multiple grand finals and a prelim three consecutive years late 70's.
Clearly the Tigers list , recruiting and coach was not Abysmal. Add a two players and they become the benchmark. (BTW not saying we are the Tigers or Pies!)

Not sure how far back you are going but Collingwood have not had a very poor season (4 wins or less) since 1999.
Tigers was 2007. They won a flag in 2017.
Doggies 2003. They won a flag in 2016.

So not quite sure about the dramatic upswings you refer to, unless they were back in the VFL days?

Collingwood had a dramatic upswing from 1976 to 1977.