Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
Ross who? wrote:NO to 13 or 15. Top 8 is elite. 9-30/35 is very even. Happy to keep 23 and get a very good player. Back our recruiters to find a nugget at 36 too.
Next year start with 2 first rounders and hit FA hard. Will be in an excellent position post 2017 draft.
(Roo, Joey and Dempster probably be finishing up by then though)
Was wondering about that. How much better off would we be with say, pick 13, than 23 and 36?
If the draft is very even, then is there really that much benefit in trading up to a pick in the mid-teens. Up to a top 8 pick I guess is a different ball-game.
Perhaps the longer term plan is also being considered....i.e being able to trade first rounders in years to come.
I tend to agree. 23 and 36 are decent picks and Elshaugh and the team have earnt the right to show what they can do with those picks.
A bit of delayed gratification is ok.
Roo, Joey, Dempster and Gilbo will all be cooked or semi-cooked at the end of 2017 so it will be a huge morale booster to enter the trade period and/or draft with two first rounders at that point in time. Some fwd thinking.
Dempster yes, but injury pending Roo should have been all australian top 40 this year and monty could provide that stevie J type assistance in 2018. I think Gilo might be a little bit younger but maybe on way out
May depend how close we are the incentive to push on also
Ross who? wrote:NO to 13 or 15. Top 8 is elite. 9-30/35 is very even. Happy to keep 23 and get a very good player. Back our recruiters to find a nugget at 36 too.
Next year start with 2 first rounders and hit FA hard. Will be in an excellent position post 2017 draft.
(Roo, Joey and Dempster probably be finishing up by then though)
Was wondering about that. How much better off would we be with say, pick 13, than 23 and 36?
If the draft is very even, then is there really that much benefit in trading up to a pick in the mid-teens. Up to a top 8 pick I guess is a different ball-game.
Perhaps the longer term plan is also being considered....i.e being able to trade first rounders in years to come.
I tend to agree. 23 and 36 are decent picks and Elshaugh and the team have earnt the right to show what they can do with those picks.
Tough strategic decision IMO... while it is true that most draft watchers tend to think it is quite even, our recriuters may really rate a particular person and not expect that person to be there at 23..
Keeping the lower pick takes it out of your own hands, and you need to hope that someone you rate higher makes it through.
In the long run you are obviously better off one good player than two average players...
my guess is that history would show that the odds of ending with a good player by talking 13 are no better than the odds that one of your two picks at 23 or 36 become good... I wonder if the Saints look at such historic statistics and if they use it as a guide? It would not be the final answer because it depends how they rate the evenness of this particular draft in those ranges... but at least the information could be used..
Last edited by SuperDuper on Wed 19 Oct 2016 8:47pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hawthrotn can't get a player to go to Gold Coast. Maybe they could get a player to go to St Kilda, and we give them back pick 36 for their troubles. They can then take the 36 to try to get O'Meara over the line. Otherwise, we could involve ourselves in a three way deal - Hawks, us, and another Melbourne club and try to turn 36 into a pick in the 20s
cwrcyn wrote:Hawthrotn can't get a player to go to Gold Coast. Maybe they could get a player to go to St Kilda, and we give them back pick 36 for their troubles. They can then take the 36 to try to get O'Meara over the line. Otherwise, we could involve ourselves in a three way deal - Hawks, us, and another Melbourne club and try to turn 36 into a pick in the 20s
For a decent player sounds like a good idea. Maybe Luke Bruest would like to play for the Saints.
[quote="magnifisaint"][quote=
For a decent player sounds like a good idea. Maybe Luke Bruest would like to play for the Saints.[/quote]
He does. Lifelong saints fan. Would have loved to pull on the saints jumper.
I want to stand for something. I'm a loyal person and I think at the end of my career it will be great to look back and know that I'm a St Kilda person for life.
- Nick Riewoldt. May 19th 2009.
cwrcyn wrote:Hawthrotn can't get a player to go to Gold Coast. Maybe they could get a player to go to St Kilda, and we give them back pick 36 for their troubles. They can then take the 36 to try to get O'Meara over the line. Otherwise, we could involve ourselves in a three way deal - Hawks, us, and another Melbourne club and try to turn 36 into a pick in the 20s
For a decent player sounds like a good idea. Maybe Luke Bruest would like to play for the Saints.
I don't think the Suns want picks, they'd have 4, 6, 8, 10, 26 and another?
Ross who? wrote:NO to 13 or 15. Top 8 is elite. 9-30/35 is very even. Happy to keep 23 and get a very good player. Back our recruiters to find a nugget at 36 too.
Next year start with 2 first rounders and hit FA hard. Will be in an excellent position post 2017 draft.
(Roo, Joey and Dempster probably be finishing up by then though)
Was wondering about that. How much better off would we be with say, pick 13, than 23 and 36?
If the draft is very even, then is there really that much benefit in trading up to a pick in the mid-teens. Up to a top 8 pick I guess is a different ball-game.
Perhaps the longer term plan is also being considered....i.e being able to trade first rounders in years to come.
I tend to agree. 23 and 36 are decent picks and Elshaugh and the team have earnt the right to show what they can do with those picks.
Tough strategic decision IMO... while it is true that most draft watchers tend to think it is quite even, our recriuters may really rate a particular person and not expect that person to be there at 23..
Keeping the lower pick takes it out of your own hands, and you need to hope that someone you rate higher makes it through.
In the long run you are obviously better off one good player than two average players...
my guess is that history would show that the odds of ending with a good player by talking 13 are no better than the odds that one of your two picks at 23 or 36 become good... I wonder if the Saints look at such historic statistics and if they use it as a guide? It would not be the final answer because it depends how they rate the evenness of this particular draft in those ranges... but at least the information could be used..
I still don't understand why we would want to give up a first round player this year for an extra one next year. Now we don't have a first rounder this year when we could have had pick 10. I know we got a bit extra with 2 second rounders this year but our first pick isn't until 23. Oh well, time will tell this time next year.
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
st.byron wrote:So nothing's happened today regarding our position. What's holding the works up? Is it the Adelaide / Gibbs thing?
The O'Meara / Hawks thing?
Or all of them together and there will be a frantic last minute frenzy tomorrow?
Guaranteed a last minute frenzy but perhaps not from us..Who knows
There was some talk that we needed Carlton to offer pick 5 for Marchbank and we'd use one of our next years firsts in to swap for pick 5.
It would benefit gws with their academy picks next year..and apparently they were interested
Looking unlikely...
We should maybe bid on Marchbank to make it happen,
I'm hoping some of our to be delisted players find a new home and happy to call it quits.. But you just never know if we have one more card to play
So we could :
1. Trade out a player and /or 23/36 in return for a first rounder
2. Trade 23 and 36 together for a first rounder.
3. Trade one of next year's first rounders for a first rounder this year.
4. Do nothing and go to the draft with 23 and 36 and two first rounders next year.
Can't blame Gold Coast for giving it to Hawthorn.
Hawthorn had the picks to get O'Meara.
Pick 14, 23, 36 and next years first rounder would certainly have sealed the deal.
But the Hawks got greedy they spent pick 14 on Tom Mitchell then turned to Gold Coast and said none our players want to play for you and we don't have much left in the way of draft picks. You are going to have to help us out here because we need your player to win us another premiership.
Hawthorn's behaviour was deliberate and pre-meditated.
They knew they could not muck around with Sydney but hey Gold Coast they are not contenders we can muck with them.
Hi Ace
Hawks actually did the right thing here.
Mitchell was gettable with pick 14 and they closed it quickly.
Suns wanted a lot more than that for O'Meara.
Issue they had is they couldn't get any player to want to live in Gold Coast, otherwise would have been pick 10 and 48 plus one of Bruest, Smith, Shiel or Puopolo part of the trade.
Makes life very hard for them to satisfy Suns on that basis.
Ross who? wrote:NO to 13 or 15. Top 8 is elite. 9-30/35 is very even. Happy to keep 23 and get a very good player. Back our recruiters to find a nugget at 36 too.
Next year start with 2 first rounders and hit FA hard. Will be in an excellent position post 2017 draft.
(Roo, Joey and Dempster probably be finishing up by then though)
Was wondering about that. How much better off would we be with say, pick 13, than 23 and 36?
If the draft is very even, then is there really that much benefit in trading up to a pick in the mid-teens. Up to a top 8 pick I guess is a different ball-game.
Perhaps the longer term plan is also being considered....i.e being able to trade first rounders in years to come.
I tend to agree. 23 and 36 are decent picks and Elshaugh and the team have earnt the right to show what they can do with those picks.
Tough strategic decision IMO... while it is true that most draft watchers tend to think it is quite even, our recriuters may really rate a particular person and not expect that person to be there at 23..
Keeping the lower pick takes it out of your own hands, and you need to hope that someone you rate higher makes it through.
In the long run you are obviously better off one good player than two average players...
my guess is that history would show that the odds of ending with a good player by talking 13 are no better than the odds that one of your two picks at 23 or 36 become good... I wonder if the Saints look at such historic statistics and if they use it as a guide? It would not be the final answer because it depends how they rate the evenness of this particular draft in those ranges... but at least the information could be used..
I still don't understand why we would want to give up a first round player this year for an extra one next year. Now we don't have a first rounder this year when we could have had pick 10. I know we got a bit extra with 2 second rounders this year but our first pick isn't until 23. Oh well, time will tell this time next year.
Because what we got is an amazing deal. Pick 10 was one chance plus 68 which was a remote chance.
2 x Second rounders in a even draft plus another first next year, can't believe anyone would question it.
The Koby Stevens deal may have hit a snag late today.
Still working through some last minute scenarios.
May not get him by 2pm deadline tomorrow but will secure him one way or another.
Devilhead wrote:Hey everybody look at me !!!!!!!!!!!! I use !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and ??????????????????? marks to accentuate my dribble !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I know nothing !!!!!!!!! I have no intel !!!!!!!!!!! This is fact ??????????????? Yes it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I only ask hard questions !!!!!!!! and demand hard answers ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Cause if you want the truth ?????????????? I'll get you the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thru someone else and then say I told you so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! without ever knowing anything !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My index finger is tired from holding down the Shift Button ???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!! but I fight thru the pain to deliver on my promise !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! of nothing but I told you so's !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????? and you fkn know it ???????????????? so cause I fkn says so !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
This is easily the best post in this thread and my nomination for post of the year
There is a solution to the irratable attention seeking. I suggest that anyone who is not familiar with the friend/foe function should investigate asap
Last edited by Scollop on Wed 19 Oct 2016 11:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
jaxons wrote:The Koby Stevens deal may have hit a snag late today.
Still working through some last minute scenarios.
May not get him by 2pm deadline tomorrow but will secure him one way or another.
One way or another?
Sounds like dogs playing hardball for 36.
Whatevs we will get him in pre seaso draft then. Frontload contract no club can match us.
Give him $1m 1 year. Secret handshake the other 2.
SMS wrote:One way or another?
Sounds like dogs playing hardball for 36.
Whatevs we will get him in pre seaso draft then. Frontload contract no club can match us.
Give him $1m 1 year. Secret handshake the other 2.
cwrcyn wrote:Hawthrotn can't get a player to go to Gold Coast. Maybe they could get a player to go to St Kilda, and we give them back pick 36 for their troubles. They can then take the 36 to try to get O'Meara over the line. Otherwise, we could involve ourselves in a three way deal - Hawks, us, and another Melbourne club and try to turn 36 into a pick in the 20s
Hawthorn could trade any player to another club and receive a viable draft pick in return and then trade it to the Gold Coast as part of an O'Meara deal but Hawthorn has no intention to treat Gold Coast fairly when they can get away with thuggery.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
suss wrote:Any chance of us getting back into this year's first round Jaxons?
Some although Deledio to GWS means more unlikely now than likely.
So that would have been pick 15(1112pts) for 23(815pts) plus 36(502 pts).
We go down 205 pts but given picks slipping due to academy picks closer to 250pts.
But GWS has picks 51 (259pts), 55(207pts), 69(49pts) some of which they probably wont use.
We may need one if we use pick 50 on Koby Steven.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
suss wrote:Any chance of us getting back into this year's first round Jaxons?
Some although Deledio to GWS means more unlikely now than likely.
So that would have been pick 15(1112pts) for 23(815pts) plus 36(502 pts).
We go down 205 pts but given picks slipping due to academy picks closer to 250pts.
But GWS has picks 51 (259pts), 55(207pts), 69(49pts) some of which they probably wont use.
We may need one if we use pick 50 on Koby Steven.
We are looking at pick 13 not 15.
They will end up with that pick for Marchbank.
SMS wrote:One way or another?
Sounds like dogs playing hardball for 36.
Whatevs we will get him in pre seaso draft then. Frontload contract no club can match us.
Give him $1m 1 year. Secret handshake the other 2.
I can understand Hawks believing jom could slide to 10 if other teams haven't been allowed to do a medical, but we would need Stevens to slide to 50 in the draft. If he can slide that far could we let him go down to 86 if there was someone still in the draft we liked?
jaxons wrote:The Koby Stevens deal may have hit a snag late today.
Still working through some last minute scenarios.
May not get him by 2pm deadline tomorrow but will secure him one way or another.
If this is the case I can only assume we are working on something else that messes this deal up as if not it is pure incompetence.
We were told the deal would get done and that it was straight forward, and looks like we have left it to the last minute.
If we did not have what the Bulldogs wanted or had not already agreed to an exchange of picks then surely we would of not put this deal on the back burner to the end of the week.
Can't believe given Ameet and the teams performance this trade period that we would stuff this up, and I know if he his delisted we can pick him up for nothing.
A champion team will always beat a team of champions.
