Two way street

[Saint wagga]

And tony74, you said precisely zero in your OP, it was a bit like our weekly injury report or the team selection video, zero insight! Probably didn't need to start a whole new thread on nothing

[tony74]

Great reply bfusa. I think you probably lost 90% of the readers there!! To clarify I didn't mean they don't know how or why they lost, everyone during and after the game knew what had gone wrong, it's more they were frustrated they couldn't execute the plan they were confident of. Both players and coaches.
Make no mistake, the dogs are very good.

[dragit]

And tony74, you said precisely zero in your OP, it was a bit like our weekly injury report or the team selection video, zero insight! Probably didn't need to start a whole new thread on nothing

Haha Saint wagga is mad as heck tonight!!!

[tony74]

And tony74, you said precisely zero in your OP, it was a bit like our weekly injury report or the team selection video, zero insight! Probably didn't need to start a whole new thread on nothing

Haha Saint wagga is mad as heck tonight!!!

I'll tell the PR team not to drop off any goodies to anyone in Wagga at the end of the year.

[Con Gorozidis]

"Missing two weeks of pre season = 4 weeks to catchup" I've never heard such a complete load of Balone rhetoric. How would missing a couple of weeks back in November/December (not even due to injury) have any bearing on a young 20 year old playing footy, even at Vfl level in early April!! Bollocks! Makes zero sense. A guy pings a hammy in mid February and he's still back by round 1. There was more too it for sure, heat stroke isn't even that big a deal if recognised and treated quickly which it was.

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/hea ... ed-illness

[Devilhead]

Crikey the way some are carrying on here you think we lost this game by over 100pts

Lets not kid ourselves the Bulldogs are a very very very good side and likely premiership contenders

Yes this is a side that had 482 possessions and went at 78% disposal efficiency ....yet .... they only had 28 shots at goal - which seems to say our defence was pretty good

We had 356 at 76% - remarkable DE considering we apparently butchered the ball at every opportunity

If Gresham's handball doesnt get intercepted we are likely to only be 15pts down and not 27pts late in the 2nd quarter and our 1st half I thought was pretty good especially our 2nd quarter where we had 6 shots at goal to there 4 - and that should have been 7 to 3

Once again though we ran out of legs or were run off our legs ........ Are we still playing catch up with match fitness due to our interupted pre season?

No doubt we could have played better but the sky is defintely not falling in - there were some decent signs during this game and last weeks game that give cause for hope and think we will be winning games before too long once our match fitness kicks in

[chook23]

Great reply bfusa. I think you probably lost 90% of the readers there!! To clarify I didn't mean they don't know how or why they lost, everyone during and after the game knew what had gone wrong, it's more they were frustrated they couldn't execute the plan they were confident of. Both players and coaches.
Make no mistake, the dogs are very good.

being disrespectful to a number of very keen and upto date saint supporters who post.

implying only 10% understand tactics and impacts on disposal (our very own poor disposal contribution as well)

Yes the dogs are very good...........

but we sure helped their cause.

[Saint wagga]

And tony74, you said precisely zero in your OP, it was a bit like our weekly injury report or the team selection video, zero insight! Probably didn't need to start a whole new thread on nothing

Haha Saint wagga is mad as heck tonight!!!

I'll tell the PR team not to drop off any goodies to anyone in Wagga at the end of the year.

Apologies tony74, way too harsh on my part, I just usually really enjoy ur insightful posts and this one was just hollow after our loss on the weekend. The dig about Goddards recovery was just ignorant ranting too!!

[Jacks Back]

Tony74. they don't know why or how they lost? Seriously. OK without getting too complicated ...

WB had a new zone set up when the ball went into their forward line with effectively super (speedy) sweepers ready to close in and solid above their head sweepers at the back of the zone for high balls. beacuse of their speed they can close in quickly on:

1) short sharp handballs
2) short 10o'clock a nd 2 o'clock kicks

What did we do all night? We took the run and gun approach and failed and then we tried the short kicks and failed then we tried the long kick and had minor success.

Zones are great defence because unless teams are drilled against them then they make players think on the spot - not our greatest attribute and 75% of the time the zone wins.

To beat a zone like WB have you have to first take the zone out of shape!

How? You play the outnumber game. They place a zone - where they have 4-6 you double the number in a cluster and then the defence HAS TO KNOW they can kick to the cluster and get the outnumber and WIN 75% of the time.

Soon the zone gets changed in shape to minimise the outnumber which opens it up for switching / short kicks and run and gun. But only after thet zone has been taken out of shape regularly to overcome the cluster.

Our issue was we just went run and gun because it worked last year.

But this year they are stronger, fitter, faster and better drilled as a zone.

We have to be better drilled on ways to beat a zone defence.

If I picked this up after 20 minutes of footy - what the hell were our so called coaches doing?

Send them all off to basketball and NFL coaching seminars so they can learn all about zones and beating them!

Perhaps the Saints should invest in a NFL coach to start teaching our coaches how to coach and drill rolling plays like this?

Wow. What an impressive post. You certainly know your stuff. Interesting reading. It might take me a while to figure it out. But nice work. I have read it twice already. I think I'll need a white board....

Here you go:

[Jacks Back]

And tony74, you said precisely zero in your OP, it was a bit like our weekly injury report or the team selection video, zero insight! Probably didn't need to start a whole new thread on nothing

Haha Saint wagga is mad as heck tonight!!!

I'll tell the PR team not to drop off any goodies to anyone in Wagga at the end of the year.

Apologies tony74, way too harsh on my part, I just usually really enjoy ur insightful posts and this one was just hollow after our loss on the weekend. The dig about Goddards recovery was just ignorant ranting too!!

There was no answer why 8cres was dropped though.

[Devilhead]

Actually there may be reason for concern for the Dogs having so many possessions and such a high DE but only having 28 shots at goal

They did the same last week against Freo - 498 possessions at a high DE and only had 28 goal scoring opportunites as well

Overuse??

They are obviously on a high at the moment and have hit the ground running however they are likely to get found during the year at some point by a few other teams

We have them again in Round 18 and I think we may give a better account of ourselves next time round if we stay relatively injury free

[saintspremiers]

BFUSA - I think you should have a meting with AR and the CEO.

IF what you are saying actually is the issue then it's fairly damming.

In the coaches defence, maybe he is aware of the issue but simply can't enact a new strategy like that mid game
due to the inexperience of the players. But maybe moreso their lack of skill. I don't know.

How often do teams restructure during a match?

[spert]

An old mate of mine who had success in coaching at various levels, said to me yesterday that he was watching the game v Dogs and just thought ..these guys just don't win enough of the contested ball, too easily beaten by their direct opponents, poor tackling, probably one or two of the older players shouldn't be there in the backline..etc etc. he reckons he wouldn't know where to start if he was coaching them- probably clean out half the team who are not up to it!

[bbm]

An old mate of mine who had success in coaching at various levels, said to me yesterday that he was watching the game v Dogs and just thought ..these guys just don't win enough of the contested ball, too easily beaten by their direct opponents, poor tackling, probably one or two of the older players shouldn't be there in the backline..etc etc. he reckons he wouldn't know where to start if he was coaching them- probably clean out half the team who are not up to it!

Hey Spert lets get your mate down to coach, you can be his assistant, might as well get Scotty Watters in too - to bring the Team and Club together more . You can then delist half the team, implement your game plan / defensive structures and teach the team to kick higher scores than the opposition - because that's how you win right?

[saynta]

Impreeive?. I'm still scratching my head.

[degruch]

Crikey the way some are carrying on here you think we lost this game by over 100pts

I heard a rumour Richo and the board have seen our recent posts and are planning to resign this very week!

[degruch]

Paul Roos will replace Richo...we'll have a compo pick by Friday

[HitTheBoundary]

Impreeive?. I'm still scratching my head.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Lets be frank. While Acres was dropped on the weekend, he probably dodged a bullet. Should come straight back in.

Goddard played OK on the weekend. Wa led to the ball a bit and seemed pretty tame compared to last year. He didnt come off for the whole first half. Maybe getting him tuned with match fitness.

Lee easily the best backman for Sandy while I was there. Got plenty of the ball and didn't miss a target. Even when clearing from the 50 it was 50+ metres up the boundary and usually to a contest. Very vocal and led the kids well.

Lee in for Webster

[Grrrrr]

"Missing two weeks of pre season = 4 weeks to catchup" I've never heard such a complete load of Balone rhetoric. How would missing a couple of weeks back in November/December (not even due to injury) have any bearing on a young 20 year old playing footy, even at Vfl level in early April!! Bollocks! Makes zero sense. A guy pings a hammy in mid February and he's still back by round 1. There was more too it for sure, heat stroke isn't even that big a deal if recognised and treated quickly which it was.

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/hea ... ed-illness

http://markdorrity.blogspot.com.au/

[remboy]

There was no answer why 8cres was dropped though.

Second biggest recruiting disaster of all time .

[The OtherThommo]

Tony74. they don't know why or how they lost? Seriously. OK without getting too complicated ...

WB had a new zone set up when the ball went into their forward line with effectively super (speedy) sweepers ready to close in and solid above their head sweepers at the back of the zone for high balls. beacuse of their speed they can close in quickly on:

1) short sharp handballs
2) short 10o'clock a nd 2 o'clock kicks

What did we do all night? We took the run and gun approach and failed and then we tried the short kicks and failed then we tried the long kick and had minor success.

Zones are great defence because unless teams are drilled against them then they make players think on the spot - not our greatest attribute and 75% of the time the zone wins.

To beat a zone like WB have you have to first take the zone out of shape!

How? You play the outnumber game. They place a zone - where they have 4-6 you double the number in a cluster and then the defence HAS TO KNOW they can kick to the cluster and get the outnumber and WIN 75% of the time.

Soon the zone gets changed in shape to minimise the outnumber which opens it up for switching / short kicks and run and gun. But only after thet zone has been taken out of shape regularly to overcome the cluster.

Our issue was we just went run and gun because it worked last year.

But this year they are stronger, fitter, faster and better drilled as a zone.

We have to be better drilled on ways to beat a zone defence.

If I picked this up after 20 minutes of footy - what the hell were our so called coaches doing?

Send them all off to basketball and NFL coaching seminars so they can learn all about zones and beating them!

Perhaps the Saints should invest in a NFL coach to start teaching our coaches how to coach and drill rolling plays like this?

All good with that, BFUSA, but you will rarely beat any zone set up if you don't use the ball well to set you up before you approach the zone.

Plus, 'run and gun' always breaks down if you keep giving the pill back, 'cos those doing the running without the pill do so assuming you'll keep it.

No plan will succeed if the execution is shabby.

I think Beveridge is showing signs of having benefited from his 2 or 3 years under Clarkson/in the Dork 'system'. While he obviously had plenty to bring to the table at the Dorks (otherwise, he wouldn't have got the gig), there are growing signs the Dorks develop coaches as well as they do players e.g. Adam Simpson - the Wiggles won 9 in the year before Simpson, 11 in his 1st year, and 18 in his 2nd, and played off (without major changes in personnel). Even Bolton is showing signs of getting a lesser talented outfit to operate better as a unit.

[Spinner]

More posts Tony!

Love your work on here - just need more of it!

[matrix]

Be interesting to zee if the hawks can pin point their way tnru the zone this week
Will be watching with interest

[cwrcyn]

You miss targets by foot you deny yourself opportunities to kick goals while allowing your opposition to score due to the same problem.

When you create 6 or 7 twelve point turnarounds during a game, thats going to mean a ten goal loss.


When you go forward, have players spare who have worked hard to get themselves into that space, and then you kick it straight to the opposition, that opposition will always have men spare and they can outnumber you on the way back. And if they're quick and skilful, they will exploit your error most times. In the meantime, your team mates are wasting tons of precious energy to to recover each situation....you and they get weary, your opponents stay fresh, and it's only a matter of time before there's no petrol left in the tank to fight your way back into it.

You hit targets, you conserve energy. You miss targets, you waste energy and you lose energy. It all takes its toll


Geary, Dunstan, Weller, Gilbert, and to a lesser extent Dempster, cost us goals and opportunities each week. It's harsh, but a reality. I admire all of them for their toughness and effort, but compare them to their counterparts at teams like Hawthorn, GWS, Bulldogs, and Adelaide, and you'll see why, for all their good work, much is negated by mediocre or poor disposal.