Drafting versus Trading

[Bluthy]

There are pros and cons of both but I think the cons of trading and the pros of drafting can be underestimated as they are sometimes a bit hidden or nebulous, particularly considering that we are rebuilding out list.

PRO'S OF DRAFTING

* There is obviously a strong risk element with the draft but you can strike it megarich with franchise players like Riewoldt, Hodge, Franklin, Lenny etc. There is the added marketing and membership advantages of having iconic one club superstars
* Research into young talent is so good now its hard to blow a top 20 pick entirely
* Getting 18 y.o. kids in is when they are at there most coachable. It is their first club and there is a huge automatic buy in to what the club and coaches are wanting them to do.
* Drafted kids will bond strongly being all in the same boat being at their first AFL club, the same age, the same wage. The seem to automatically feel they are on a mission together with strong club loyalty in an almost cult-like way - notice the way all our youngsters are signing new contacts no worries.
* You get at least a few kids at the same age each year to support each other and feel connected. You then get the next age group coming in the following year and you get a nice even spread of ages creating good connection throughout the club
* At the start of rebuild you actually have a bit more luxury in getting the pick wrong. It's not the end of the world as you will keep going back to the draft - its a numbers game and early on is the time to throw the darts
* When the draftees have reached their prime they are on very good wages and don't see players traded in on good wages as inequitable
* Being in a full development mode with Richo brought in because hes' a good developer of young talent and the likes of Peta Searle as development coach, we are almost set up like a nursery. The younger they come in the better to take full advantage of our development environment and with the likes of Rooey, Monty, Fisher to show them the ropes and ingrain strong "Saints footy" culture.
* The kids start playing with each at a very young age getting some great synergy going and learning each others game inside out.
* Losing together in thrashings can be a bonding moment for the young kids. Like war veterans, they've been through the s*** together by relying on each other and will have a bond no one else will understand when they hold that premiership cup up.
* Saints, Cats and Hawks have all invested strongly at the draft early on to build a core before trading in and created dynasties from it
* We have time on our side and don't NEED to play finals straight away. Supporters are aware we are building for a sustained tilt at the flag and know the kids take time. Patience is our strength

CONS OF TRADING

* You often get in players who are on much higher wages than a lot of the young list creating jealously and disharmony
* The opportunity cost of losing your draft pick is a chance at a really great player
* Players coming in can have a sense of entitlement about playing firsts. Is Freeman going to be happy if he's dropped to the two's when he wasn't prepared to fight for his place in a young pies midfield after only being there 2 years?
* Players coming in have an "outsider" status that requires integration work
* Questions about a player leaving a club, especially Freeman after just 2 seasons, not "seeing things through" arise with them
* If you trade in big players it can suddenly create this expectation or pressure of needing to play finals that supporters and the media can create

WHERE WE'RE AT

I think considering where we are at in our rebuild, I think our main focus should be the draft. There is the chance of landing superstar players in the draft lotto. If the trade can be done at a bargain rate, such as getting CArslile and Freeman and keeping pick 5 then ok. But much consideration should be given to what is being given up if we have to give up pick 5 (elite talent like Pendelbury and Franklin came in at those picks). Also the possible disruption and downsides of the trading at this point to get guys in on big coin must be considered.

[saintjake]

Built not bought.
Just look at LeBron v the Spurs.

[joeyjohnw]

A bit of trading worked just fine for hawks, eagles etc.
Also Freeman and Carlisle are young and easily fit into the age bracket we're going for. Theyll fit in just fine.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Built not bought.
Just look at LeBron v the Spurs.

What does that even mean in a football context?

[ripplug66]

A bit of trading worked just fine for hawks, eagles etc.
Also Freeman and Carlisle are young and easily fit into the age bracket we're going for. Theyll fit in just fine.

Exactly. Its not if we are trading for 27 year olds. Both players are capable of playing 10 years and one has already proven himself by making 22 year and under side twice. The other was rated a pick 10 in the draft.

[GrumpyOne]

As long as we trade in players who have the potential for 10 years service for the Saints, I'm OK with it.

[mad saint guy]

I think the plan was always to go to the draft for the next couple of years but the opportunity to snag talented players very cheaply has presented itself and we've made our move.

[saintjake]

Built not bought.
Just look at LeBron v the Spurs.

What does that even mean in a football context?

LeBron keeps surrounding himself with a handful of stars who take all the cash and then are left with no depth and only role players at best.

The Spurs drafted Duncan, Parker ect ect, they take pay cuts to stay together and they win.

[saintsRrising]

I think the plan was always to go to the draft for the next couple of years but the opportunity to snag talented players very cheaply has presented itself and we've made our move.

I don't follow you at all, as the Saints have traded in players each year plus the occasional FA like Roberton and Membrey (was originally going to be a trade)

Bruce, Savage, Delaney, Hickey, Longer, Lee.... all trades

Opportunities are different each year, and so to achieve best value the mechanics have been different each year as well. But we have not only used the draft, and our unlikely to do so.

IMO the Saints strategy is to seek good players, preferably at a discount, of an age that they can all be part of our next finals push. Part of this has been to engineer trade deals of picks. But just as they have traded for early picks, they have also done deals to downgrade or gain lower picks as well.

Initially we did not have a high quality recruiting team and so their were some blunders (you will always have some misses), but the last two years we have nailed things, and this year it looks like we will again.

[Bluthy]

I think the plan was always to go to the draft for the next couple of years but the opportunity to snag talented players very cheaply has presented itself and we've made our move.

I don't follow you at all, as the Saints have traded in players each year plus the occasional FA like Roberton and Membrey (was originally going to be a trade)

Bruce, Savage, Delaney, Hickey, Longer, Lee.... all trades

Opportunities are different each year, and so to achieve best value the mechanics have been different each year as well. But we have not only used the draft, and our unlikely to do so.

IMO the Saints strategy is to seek good players, preferably at a discount, of an age that they can all be part of our next finals push. Part of this has been to engineer trade deals of picks. But just as they have traded for early picks, they have also done deals to downgrade or gain lower picks as well.

Initially we did not have a high quality recruiting team and so their were some blunders (you will always have some misses), but the last two years we have nailed things, and this year it looks like we will again.

But a lot of people question the high picks we traded for Hickey and Longer (I think they have lots of potential). There aren't too many that defend the Tom Lee trade. The rest have mainly been freebies, steak knives or very cheap trades losing virtually nothing. We were desperate to get some big bodied 50 game guys who had a decent tank to be able to remain somewhat competitive and not have to the play the babies if we didn't want to. Hence why guys like Weller, Savage, Delaney, Bruce etc came in. That is very different than trading high picks. With some pretty good depth now, the last couple of years we've had a clear focus on the draft as Richo says to "stockpile elite talent". We fended off those trying to get our pick 3 for Billings and pick 1 for McCartin. Now suddenly we are looking at trading our pick 5. What happened to our elite stockpile plan? The draft is where you can crack it huge if you get it right. The heart and soul of your team comes from the draft. They are "home-grown" one-club players. We need more of them and pick 5 may be the highest we have for a while.

[BigMart]

You just put together the best list you can using the avenues available

Draft
Trade
Free Agency
Pre Season Draft (under utilised, in a weird system were so-called fairness counts)
Rookie Draft

I build a list and use all of these options every year
With specific rules

[gringo]

You just put together the best list you can using the avenues available

Draft
Trade
Free Agency
Pre Season Draft (under utilised, in a weird system were so-called fairness counts)
Rookie Draft

I build a list and use all of these options every year
With specific rules

I agree, no real better option. If you get a quality player by trading them in it's all good. We did very well with guys like G train, Dempster and Bruce but not so great with Polo and Monkhorst. Likewise for ever good kid you trade in there are 4 that don't make it. Just get the best list together any way you can.

[bozza1980]

Built not bought.
Just look at LeBron v the Spurs.

I think we'll all be pretty happy if our trading replicates LeBron's record in Miami.

[ripplug66]

I think the plan was always to go to the draft for the next couple of years but the opportunity to snag talented players very cheaply has presented itself and we've made our move.

I don't follow you at all, as the Saints have traded in players each year plus the occasional FA like Roberton and Membrey (was originally going to be a trade)

Bruce, Savage, Delaney, Hickey, Longer, Lee.... all trades

Opportunities are different each year, and so to achieve best value the mechanics have been different each year as well. But we have not only used the draft, and our unlikely to do so.

IMO the Saints strategy is to seek good players, preferably at a discount, of an age that they can all be part of our next finals push. Part of this has been to engineer trade deals of picks. But just as they have traded for early picks, they have also done deals to downgrade or gain lower picks as well.

Initially we did not have a high quality recruiting team and so their were some blunders (you will always have some misses), but the last two years we have nailed things, and this year it looks like we will again.

But a lot of people question the high picks we traded for Hickey and Longer (I think they have lots of potential). There aren't too many that defend the Tom Lee trade. The rest have mainly been freebies, steak knives or very cheap trades losing virtually nothing. We were desperate to get some big bodied 50 game guys who had a decent tank to be able to remain somewhat competitive and not have to the play the babies if we didn't want to. Hence why guys like Weller, Savage, Delaney, Bruce etc came in. That is very different than trading high picks. With some pretty good depth now, the last couple of years we've had a clear focus on the draft as Richo says to "stockpile elite talent". We fended off those trying to get our pick 3 for Billings and pick 1 for McCartin. Now suddenly we are looking at trading our pick 5. What happened to our elite stockpile plan? The draft is where you can crack it huge if you get it right. The heart and soul of your team comes from the draft. They are "home-grown" one-club players. We need more of them and pick 5 may be the highest we have for a while.

I still don't get your point. If Carlisle can play 160 games for the club whats the difference between trading and drafting? Its still stockpiling a 160 game player baring the stupid thing he did, with much less resk than McCartin who is still a work in progress. And the heart and soul is a bit of rubbish. For a start most players are still drafting so we have heart and soul and if we come good in 3 years time who is going to care Bruce came from GWS.