Jake Carlisle

[Devilhead]

Anyway I have probably seen him play 15 games live and that is where I got that opinion. I don't need to look at stats for him but I certainly do for many players.

Given his stats though it looks like his very outside game has become more inside - a result of being in the AFL system?

[howlinwolf]

We need to stand up to E'dope and play hard ball. They are arrogant thieves.
SEN reporting they want Melbourne's first pick and Howe for Melksham. They are dreamers and see every club beneath them.
SEN also said Jimmy Toumpas may be moving. I reckon he goes alright.

[Sobraz]

SEN also said Jimmy Toumpas may be moving. I reckon he goes alright.

Been on the Toumpas bandwagon since the start. Haven't had a golden Greek since Traianidis. Solid history up to that point.

But in all seriousness, I think Toump can play, needs a good environment. Should cost a bag of chips.

Melhsham to Melb is a massive blunder by the Dees... again...

[howlinwolf]

I'd have to agree with many on here in that unless we can bend E'dope over to an extent we shouldn't trade for Carlisle. I'd prefer us to keep drafting like we have been.
Can anyone point me towards a reference to Josh Kelly moving from GWS ? I'd prefer him to a raw deal from E'dope.
He fits our required profile of character. May be a little bit of an outside mid still but can grow into an inside mid role still. Great disposal,decision making and endurance running.

We could do with Carlisle But still need quality mids. He went 2 in a strong draft so if we got him for 5 in a weak draft we'd be going well.

[plugger66]

Anyway I have probably seen him play 15 games live and that is where I got that opinion. I don't need to look at stats for him but I certainly do for many players.

Given his stats though it looks like his very outside game has become more inside - a result of being in the AFL system?

No doubt he has improved in that regard. Still would rather Carlisle then Kelly if we have to lose pick 5. I can understand others thinking Kelly but also we are into Carlisle and I doubt we are into Kelly so we may as well say Fyffe.

[plugger66]

I'd have to agree with many on here in that unless we can bend E'dope over to an extent we shouldn't trade for Carlisle. I'd prefer us to keep drafting like we have been.
Can anyone point me towards a reference to Josh Kelly moving from GWS ? I'd prefer him to a raw deal from E'dope.
He fits our required profile of character. May be a little bit of an outside mid still but can grow into an inside mid role still. Great disposal,decision making and endurance running.

We could do with Carlisle But still need quality mids. He went 2 in a strong draft so if we got him for 5 in a weak draft we'd be going well.

You do realise we can say no to Essendon. People seem to think they duded us on Lovett. I'm sorry we duded ourselves. Any club should be trying to get the best deal possible. If we aren't then we are the losers not the club we are dealing with We need to forget Carlisle is an Essendon player. If we think he is ideal for us, which the club obviously do, then we get him at the best price for our club. If that is pick 5 because they reckon the draft isn't good enough then we have the best deal because Essendon get a high pick in a poor draft.

[howlinwolf]

I'd have to agree with many on here in that unless we can bend E'dope over to an extent we shouldn't trade for Carlisle. I'd prefer us to keep drafting like we have been.
Can anyone point me towards a reference to Josh Kelly moving from GWS ? I'd prefer him to a raw deal from E'dope.
He fits our required profile of character. May be a little bit of an outside mid still but can grow into an inside mid role still. Great disposal,decision making and endurance running.

We could do with Carlisle But still need quality mids. He went 2 in a strong draft so if we got him for 5 in a weak draft we'd be going well.

You do realise we can say no to Essendon. People seem to think they duded us on Lovett. I'm sorry we duded ourselves. Any club should be trying to get the best deal possible. If we aren't then we are the losers not the club we are dealing with We need to forget Carlisle is an Essendon player. If we think he is ideal for us, which the club obviously do, then we get him at the best price for our club. If that is pick 5 because they reckon the draft isn't good enough then we have the best deal because Essendon get a high pick in a poor draft.

Yes, I sort of get we can so no to E'dope. I'm concerned we get carried away an offer more than the worth.
My opinion on E'dope's arrogance in trading has nothing to do with the Lovett trade. More the ridiculous requests they give clubs for their players.
Think Paddy Ryder and their request for Wingard, Wines etc. Then Carlisle to melb for their first pick and Howe.

We should never forget Carlisle is an Essendon player as he has baggage hanging over his head that players from other clubs don't. If we trade for him we are going into unchartered waters as his future is unknown from November.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I'd have to agree with many on here in that unless we can bend E'dope over to an extent we shouldn't trade for Carlisle. I'd prefer us to keep drafting like we have been.
Can anyone point me towards a reference to Josh Kelly moving from GWS ? I'd prefer him to a raw deal from E'dope.
He fits our required profile of character. May be a little bit of an outside mid still but can grow into an inside mid role still. Great disposal,decision making and endurance running.

We could do with Carlisle But still need quality mids. He went 2 in a strong draft so if we got him for 5 in a weak draft we'd be going well.

You do realise we can say no to Essendon. People seem to think they duded us on Lovett. I'm sorry we duded ourselves. Any club should be trying to get the best deal possible. If we aren't then we are the losers not the club we are dealing with We need to forget Carlisle is an Essendon player. If we think he is ideal for us, which the club obviously do, then we get him at the best price for our club. If that is pick 5 because they reckon the draft isn't good enough then we have the best deal because Essendon get a high pick in a poor draft.

Carlisle is not an Essendon player anymore P66. We just have to try and deal with his former employer.

However you are correct, the club needs to get the best deal (regardless of the club).

As you say we can say no.

Personally I think if we cant do a deal that doesn't involve #5 we should walk away.

It has been said it is a "weak" draft, however the top ten would stack up against most top tens in recent drafts.

In saying that and with the clubs stated beliefs that we are crying out for mids, we either need to trade #5 for a quality mid (like a Kelly for example, remote but that is just an example) or do a deal where we can get an Aish and a Carlisle involving #5 dealing with other clubs in the trade.

The recruiters would have been working on the Carlisle scenario and alternatives probably all year. So if the club feels we are getting duded with Carlisle who is OOC, has left Essendon, has not had great form and has a drug ban hanging over his head, we can walk and explore alternatives.

In a sense with Carlisle if he nominates us, we have the whip hand. Essendon need to deal with us or, despite what you say, there is an option of him walking to Carlton in the PSD or even us if he gets the s.hits at Essendon and we frontend the deal.

They are remote but still options. Essendon cannot simply afford to drop dps and get nothing. They have been stripped of dps and just cant lose any more.

I believe that Bains and Elsaugh are pretty canny operators and that they will do a deal that in the long run will see all of this panic about BIllings and #5 and screwing Essendon etc etc as nothing but supporters surmising on the internet.

Think they will get a deal done. If not what is the worst case scenario for the club? We keep #5. Not a disaster by any means.

[howlinwolf]

I agree 100% Bunk.

[plugger66]

I'd have to agree with many on here in that unless we can bend E'dope over to an extent we shouldn't trade for Carlisle. I'd prefer us to keep drafting like we have been.
Can anyone point me towards a reference to Josh Kelly moving from GWS ? I'd prefer him to a raw deal from E'dope.
He fits our required profile of character. May be a little bit of an outside mid still but can grow into an inside mid role still. Great disposal,decision making and endurance running.

We could do with Carlisle But still need quality mids. He went 2 in a strong draft so if we got him for 5 in a weak draft we'd be going well.

You do realise we can say no to Essendon. People seem to think they duded us on Lovett. I'm sorry we duded ourselves. Any club should be trying to get the best deal possible. If we aren't then we are the losers not the club we are dealing with We need to forget Carlisle is an Essendon player. If we think he is ideal for us, which the club obviously do, then we get him at the best price for our club. If that is pick 5 because they reckon the draft isn't good enough then we have the best deal because Essendon get a high pick in a poor draft.

Carlisle is not an Essendon player anymore P66. We just have to try and deal with his former employer.

However you are correct, the club needs to get the best deal (regardless of the club).

As you say we can say no.

Personally I think if we cant do a deal that doesn't involve #5 we should walk away.

It has been said it is a "weak" draft, however the top ten would stack up against most top tens in recent drafts.

In saying that and with the clubs stated beliefs that we are crying out for mids, we either need to trade #5 for a quality mid (like a Kelly for example, remote but that is just an example) or do a deal where we can get an Aish and a Carlisle involving #5 dealing with other clubs in the trade.

The recruiters would have been working on the Carlisle scenario and alternatives probably all year. So if the club feels we are getting duded with Carlisle who is OOC, has left Essendon, has not had great form and has a drug ban hanging over his head, we can walk and explore alternatives.

In a sense with Carlisle if he nominates us, we have the whip hand. Essendon need to deal with us or, despite what you say, there is an option of him walking to Carlton in the PSD or even us if he gets the s.hits at Essendon and we frontend the deal.

They are remote but still options. Essendon cannot simply afford to drop dps and get nothing. They have been stripped of dps and just cant lose any more.

I believe that Bains and Elsaugh are pretty canny operators and that they will do a deal that in the long run will see all of this panic about BIllings and #5 and screwing Essendon etc etc as nothing but supporters surmising on the internet.

Think they will get a deal done. If not what is the worst case scenario for the club? We keep #5. Not a disaster by any means.

Firstly how come OOC players all of a sudden mean you get them cheaper? Most players who leave are OOC and most get what you would say is true value. Anyway all this typing means jack. I hope we get him for a second rounder but I believe he is a 10 to 15 pick and there is no way Essendon will take around pick 28 for him unless there wasn't one other club interested. At that price 17 other clubs would be interested. At pick 15 I still think a few will be interested. The only thing that slightly weakens Carlisle value is the WADA thing but it seems people who know more about this than me think the penalty, if found guilty, will be minimal. And I don't mean Rushie.

And I'm not panicking about pick 5 at all. If we got their second pick in return and got Freeman for that I would say Carlisle, Freeman and pick 28 is one great draft. 2 certain 10 year players bar injury and a maybe player. Better than we have done in most drafts since 2001.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Firstly how come OOC players all of a sudden mean you get them cheaper? Most players who leave are OOC and most get what you would say is true value.

You don't "automatically get them cheaper", you leverage is better than if they weren't OOC. It also depends on the individual circumstances. He is OOC but he is also in a two year form slump, and also has a possible drug suspension hanging over his head.

Anyway all this typing means jack. I hope we get him for a second rounder but I believe he is a 10 to 15 pick and there is no way Essendon will take around pick 28 for him unless there wasn't one other club interested. At that price 17 other clubs would be interested.

Well it would be a boring old forum if there was no typing. He may be worth pick 10-15 (current form I don't believe so) but circumstance doesn't mean he will get for Essendon what he may be worth.

At pick 15 I still think a few will be interested. The only thing that slightly weakens Carlisle value is the WADA thing but it seems people who know more about this than me think the penalty, if found guilty, will be minimal. And I don't mean Rushie.

Disagree. A number of things "weaken" Essendon's position, WADA being one.

And I'm not panicking about pick 5 at all. If we got their second pick in return and got Freeman for that I would say Carlisle, Freeman and pick 28 is one great draft. 2 certain 10 year players bar injury and a maybe player. Better than we have done in most drafts since 2001.

Disagree. it would be god awful. Carlilse is a take it or leave it scenario out of form and may never get it back. Freeman has never played an AFL game in two years, has bad hamstrings and is a huge risk. Unless we can do a three way deal with another club #5 should be off the table as a stand alone.

Wont mind if it is part of a deal where we get something better than a second rounder in return. Much to paly out over the next month or so.

Sorry to quote you, I know you get a bit huffy about it, but your post had so many parts to it, that it needed to be treated separately.

[Bunk_Moreland]

As an example of using pick five would be something like this scenario

Ross for Freeman + pick 45
5 for aish + pick 20
Pick 20 for Carlisle

Freeman, Aish, Carlisle, 25 44, 45.

That is just a hyperthetical but with that outcome we would have a Good Backman a good Mid a promising but risky mid, 25 could be used on a mid slider, 44 on Rice and 45 on Sinclair upgrade

So from on the list from trading and draft
Carlilse
Aish
Freeman
#25
Rice
Sinclair

If we got that, I don't think there would be much complaining

(thanks to FlyingSledgehammer for the scenario above - from BF D&T megathread - pg940)

[SaintPav]

As an example of using pick five would be something like this scenario

Ross for Freeman + pick 45
5 for aish + pick 20
Pick 20 for Carlisle

Freeman, Aish, Carlisle, 25 44, 45.

That is just a hyperthetical but with that outcome we would have a Good Backman a good Mid a promising but risky mid, 25 could be used on a mid slider, 44 on Rice and 45 on Sinclair upgrade

So from on the list from trading and draft
Carlilse
Aish
Freeman
#25
Rice
Sinclair

If we got that, I don't think there would be much complaining

(thanks to FlyingSledgehammer for the scenario above - from BF D&T megathread - pg940)

I wouldn't complain but I don't think the filth would be interested in Seb.

If we got Carlisle that would mean that we no longer need Delaney. Would anyone be interested in him?

[Saint wagga]

As an example of using pick five would be something like this scenario

Ross for Freeman + pick 45
5 for aish + pick 20
Pick 20 for Carlisle

Freeman, Aish, Carlisle, 25 44, 45.

That is just a hyperthetical but with that outcome we would have a Good Backman a good Mid a promising but risky mid, 25 could be used on a mid slider, 44 on Rice and 45 on Sinclair upgrade

So from on the list from trading and draft
Carlilse
Aish
Freeman
#25
Rice
Sinclair

If we got that, I don't think there would be much complaining

(thanks to FlyingSledgehammer for the scenario above - from BF D&T megathread - pg940)

I wouldn't complain but I don't think the filth would be interested in Seb.

If we got Carlisle that would mean that we no longer need Delaney. Would anyone be interested in him?

Delaney would have no trade value whatsoever IMO. If we get Carlisle, he will essentailly fill the role of Simpkin ie: Sandi backup.

[resaintlee]

An hr person told me once never to employ someone who speaks badly of their previous employer as they will soon be doing that about you. Also, I wonder if Carlisle came to the Saints would he ever smile. A pretty unhappy looking chappie in the www search for info.

[plugger66]

Firstly how come OOC players all of a sudden mean you get them cheaper? Most players who leave are OOC and most get what you would say is true value.

You don't "automatically get them cheaper", you leverage is better than if they weren't OOC. It also depends on the individual circumstances. He is OOC but he is also in a two year form slump, and also has a possible drug suspension hanging over his head.

Anyway all this typing means jack. I hope we get him for a second rounder but I believe he is a 10 to 15 pick and there is no way Essendon will take around pick 28 for him unless there wasn't one other club interested. At that price 17 other clubs would be interested.

Well it would be a boring old forum if there was no typing. He may be worth pick 10-15 (current form I don't believe so) but circumstance doesn't mean he will get for Essendon what he may be worth.

At pick 15 I still think a few will be interested. The only thing that slightly weakens Carlisle value is the WADA thing but it seems people who know more about this than me think the penalty, if found guilty, will be minimal. And I don't mean Rushie.

Disagree. A number of things "weaken" Essendon's position, WADA being one.

And I'm not panicking about pick 5 at all. If we got their second pick in return and got Freeman for that I would say Carlisle, Freeman and pick 28 is one great draft. 2 certain 10 year players bar injury and a maybe player. Better than we have done in most drafts since 2001.

Disagree. it would be god awful. Carlilse is a take it or leave it scenario out of form and may never get it back. Freeman has never played an AFL game in two years, has bad hamstrings and is a huge risk. Unless we can do a three way deal with another club #5 should be off the table as a stand alone.

Wont mind if it is part of a deal where we get something better than a second rounder in return. Much to paly out over the next month or so.

Sorry to quote you, I know you get a bit huffy about it, but your post had so many parts to it, that it needed to be treated separately.

There is no proof that OOC players have better leverage because most players are OOC and most get true value. Its a myth that I haven't really heard before but also goes with that myth of using the PSD.


Apart from WADA nothing weakens Essendons position because OOC players doesn't mean jack. I base that on years of trading. And there is less risk getting Carlisle and Freeman for pick 5 than getting any young kid in the draft. Much less risk. Anyway it doesn't matter what we all think but based on a few here there will be a little meltdown come trading time.

[Bunk_Moreland]

There is no proof that OOC players have better leverage because most players are OOC and most get true value. Its a myth that I haven't really heard before but also goes with that myth of using the PSD.

What did we get for an OOC Cripps? Look how he is going and tell me he was only worth two picks in the forties?

And the PSD is not a myth. It is a possibility. A remote one but a possibility.

Apart from WADA nothing weakens Essendons position because OOC players doesn't mean jack.

lol - no point trying to have a rational conversation with a person refusing to deal in facts. Ryder was IN CONTRACT last season and the Injectors got #17 for him.

OOC means the club the player nominates has more leverage. If you cant see that or dismiss it out of hand there is no point conversing with you

I base that on years of trading. And there is less risk getting Carlisle and Freeman for pick 5 than getting any young kid in the draft. Much less risk. Anyway it doesn't matter what we all think but based on a few here there will be a little meltdown come trading time.

Crap. Freeman is injury prone, hasn't played in two years. Just because you saw him play and is somehow a favourite of yours doesn't make it less so.

Don't bother replying, done with your obtuse stubbornness and arrogance on this topic.

[plugger66]

There is no proof that OOC players have better leverage because most players are OOC and most get true value. Its a myth that I haven't really heard before but also goes with that myth of using the PSD.

What did we get for an OOC Cripps? Look how he is going and tell me he was only worth two picks in the forties?

And the PSD is not a myth. It is a possibility. A remote one but a possibility.

Apart from WADA nothing weakens Essendons position because OOC players doesn't mean jack.

lol - no point trying to have a rational conversation with a person refusing to deal in facts. Ryder was IN CONTRACT last season and the Injectors got #17 for him.

OOC means the club the player nominates has more leverage. If you cant see that or dismiss it out of hand there is no point conversing with you

I base that on years of trading. And there is less risk getting Carlisle and Freeman for pick 5 than getting any young kid in the draft. Much less risk. Anyway it doesn't matter what we all think but based on a few here there will be a little meltdown come trading time.

Crap. Freeman is injury prone, hasn't played in two years. Just because you saw him play and is somehow a favourite of yours doesn't make it less so.

Don't bother replying, done with your obtuse stubbornness and arrogance on this topic.

I will reply if I want to. Great song that.


Cripps is worth a lot more now than when he left. Cant remember to many complaining about the pick when he left. Seemed about his value back then. How did we go with Hickey who was also OOC. And the PSD is a myth when we talk about getting good players. How did we go last year with pick one or were we waiting until we got pick 5? And I am having a rational conversation. Ryder age last year was? And his form last year was? I think those thinking pick 28 will get it done are being totally irrational. Why has OOC all of a sudden mattered. Cant remember it hardly ever being mentioned before. Now if you cant converse with a person speaking fact that's your issue. Most players traded are OOC and it doesn't change the pick number unless you are comparing it to those in contract. Do you lose all logic when trying to discuss things. Freeman a favourite of mine. Never spoken a word to him as far as I know. Then you come up with no point in conversing and a rational conversation. Is your position that weak you have to resort to this BM. How about growing some and discussing without that crap. And your last line really shows your weakness. Its a pity because its an interesting discussion even if you are totally wrong.

[Bunk_Moreland]

There is no proof that OOC players have better leverage because most players are OOC and most get true value. Its a myth that I haven't really heard before but also goes with that myth of using the PSD.

What did we get for an OOC Cripps? Look how he is going and tell me he was only worth two picks in the forties?

And the PSD is not a myth. It is a possibility. A remote one but a possibility.

Apart from WADA nothing weakens Essendons position because OOC players doesn't mean jack.

lol - no point trying to have a rational conversation with a person refusing to deal in facts. Ryder was IN CONTRACT last season and the Injectors got #17 for him.

OOC means the club the player nominates has more leverage. If you cant see that or dismiss it out of hand there is no point conversing with you

I base that on years of trading. And there is less risk getting Carlisle and Freeman for pick 5 than getting any young kid in the draft. Much less risk. Anyway it doesn't matter what we all think but based on a few here there will be a little meltdown come trading time.

Crap. Freeman is injury prone, hasn't played in two years. Just because you saw him play and is somehow a favourite of yours doesn't make it less so.

Don't bother replying, done with your obtuse stubbornness and arrogance on this topic.

I will reply if I want to. Great song that.


Cripps is worth a lot more now than when he left. Cant remember to many complaining about the pick when he left. Seemed about his value back then. How did we go with Hickey who was also OOC. And the PSD is a myth when we talk about getting good players. How did we go last year with pick one or were we waiting until we got pick 5? And I am having a rational conversation. Ryder age last year was? And his form last year was? I think those thinking pick 28 will get it done are being totally irrational. Why has OOC all of a sudden mattered. Cant remember it hardly ever being mentioned before. Now if you cant converse with a person speaking fact that's your issue. Most players traded are OOC and it doesn't change the pick number unless you are comparing it to those in contract. Do you lose all logic when trying to discuss things. Freeman a favourite of mine. Never spoken a word to him as far as I know. Then you come up with no point in conversing and a rational conversation. Is your position that weak you have to resort to this BM. How about growing some and discussing without that crap. And your last line really shows your weakness. Its a pity because its an interesting discussion even if you are totally wrong.

White Noise and obtuse stubbornness.

Makes zero sense.

Wrong and plain dumb

[the dome]

"Personally I think if we cant do a deal that doesn't involve #5 we should walk away".
I appreciate your angle on this Bunk.
Firstly i'm assuming we'll get the 7th. best player due to the 2 academy picks coming in before us. Also assuming no Parish.
Tell me if i'm wrong please.

Couldn't help thinking back to 1998 and & who we landed @ Pick 11
...Lenny Hayes!
Pick 5 could land us a player (maybe a much needed elite mid for example) that could be of much greater value to us than any player essendon could ship over our way. I also feel mighty uneasy dealing with essendon on any level.
I also know we could really benefit with another genuine KPD but but...
Our Pick 5 in a couple of monthes could potentially be an absolute beauty. A bit more short term pain (if it meant missing Carlisle) may be worth it for a well-informed pick @ 5. Tough decision-making for the Saintly brains trust.

[IanRush]

Hi all,
Jake Carlisle, his manager and Alan Richardson were having a meeting at a Pizza restaurant on Mount Alexander Road, in the week leading up to the Essendon v Richmond game this year.

Source: My workmate’s mate, who was jogging by the shop at the time Carlisle was waiting there, and Richardson walked in. (i.e. he took a second look, to see who Carlisle was meeting with).

[Con Gorozidis]

Hi all,
Jake Carlisle, his manager and Alan Richardson were having a meeting at a Pizza restaurant on Mount Alexander Road, in the week leading up to the Essendon v Richmond game this year.

Source: My workmate’s mate, who was jogging by the shop at the time Carlisle was waiting there, and Richardson walked in. (i.e. he took a second look, to see who Carlisle was meeting with).

Keepin it classy. La Porcettas?
Obviously not bothered about who saw him. Thats the heart of Bomber territory.
Most important question - what toppings did they order and what base? Traditional I hope.

[IanRush]

Hi all,
Jake Carlisle, his manager and Alan Richardson were having a meeting at a Pizza restaurant on Mount Alexander Road, in the week leading up to the Essendon v Richmond game this year.

Source: My workmate’s mate, who was jogging by the shop at the time Carlisle was waiting there, and Richardson walked in. (i.e. he took a second look, to see who Carlisle was meeting with).

Keepin it classy. La Porcettas?
Obviously not bothered about who saw him. Thats the heart of Bomber territory.
Most important question - what toppings did they order and what base? Traditional I hope.

A Gourmet pizza with Chicken and Soy, I believe......

[Con Gorozidis]

Hi all,
Jake Carlisle, his manager and Alan Richardson were having a meeting at a Pizza restaurant on Mount Alexander Road, in the week leading up to the Essendon v Richmond game this year.

Source: My workmate’s mate, who was jogging by the shop at the time Carlisle was waiting there, and Richardson walked in. (i.e. he took a second look, to see who Carlisle was meeting with).

Keepin it classy. La Porcettas?
Obviously not bothered about who saw him. Thats the heart of Bomber territory.
Most important question - what toppings did they order and what base? Traditional I hope.

A Gourmet pizza with Chicken and Soy, I believe......

Dogs must taken him out to a gastro pub or something.

[Tom_Sainter]

Have a feeling Seb Ross will be involved if any trade is to take place, isn't he the cousin of Jobe? I would think Seb + 2nd round pick may be enough to do the deal? With any other club may happen but essendon are the worst to deal with come trade time. Didn't they want some ridiculous trade last year for Ryder, like Gray + 1st round pick??