Recruiting deck chairs on the good ship, St Kilda

[saynta]

I see where Carlton stalwart , Alex Marcou reckons that disastrous recruiting has been at the core of Carlton's problems, and that there recruiting hasbeen shocking for the best part of ten years. He reckons that they have never had the right guy in charge . He then goes on to name a decade of top 25 draft busts. Hugh Goddard being overlooked for another dud named Blaine Boekhorst also gets a prominent mention.

Evidently he is highly critical of a guy called Wayne Hughes, who presided over 7 drafts between 2004 to 2010 before being pushed into an assistant recruiting role before being finally axed just months after the 2013 national draft.

Isn't that the guy who washed up at Seaford earlier this year?

[chook23]

Yes

[RW&B]

Hughes role at St Kilda is very different to his role at Carlton. His role at the Saints is to focus on AFL listed players for trade and free agency purposes whereas he was mainly looking at underage talent at Carlton. Much easier role at St Kilda in theory as AFL listed players are a known quantity in most cases.

[stjay]

Cannot believe Wayne Hughes despite the different role was ever considered based on Carlton's recruiting performance.

[saynta]

Well, we can always be thankful for little mercies.

some of the guys Hughes recruited were Bower, Hampson, Grigg, Lucas, Watson and Bootsma.

Some real champions there. Not.

[WinnersOnly]

You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!

[amusingname]

You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!

Good to see we are not overreacting to a rumour or anything.

[Con Gorozidis]

I see where Carlton stalwart , Alex Marcou reckons that disastrous recruiting has been at the core of Carlton's problems, and that there recruiting hasbeen shocking for the best part of ten years. He reckons that they have never had the right guy in charge . He then goes on to name a decade of top 25 draft busts. Hugh Goddard being overlooked for another dud named Blaine Boekhorst also gets a prominent mention.

Evidently he is highly critical of a guy called Wayne Hughes, who presided over 7 drafts between 2004 to 2010 before being pushed into an assistant recruiting role before being finally axed just months after the 2013 national draft.

Isn't that the guy who washed up at Seaford earlier this year?

Raised a lot of eyebrows on here. Smells like 'a job for a mate' arrangement and I dont like it one bit.
Of course some of the posters who think every single thing the club do is right (despite one flag in 120 years) did their usual 'what would you know' spiel.
But this appointment is a shocker. Carlton's recruitment is demonstrably WORSE than a dart board. This guy is simply indefensible.

[stjay]

I see where Carlton stalwart , Alex Marcou reckons that disastrous recruiting has been at the core of Carlton's problems, and that there recruiting hasbeen shocking for the best part of ten years. He reckons that they have never had the right guy in charge . He then goes on to name a decade of top 25 draft busts. Hugh Goddard being overlooked for another dud named Blaine Boekhorst also gets a prominent mention.

Evidently he is highly critical of a guy called Wayne Hughes, who presided over 7 drafts between 2004 to 2010 before being pushed into an assistant recruiting role before being finally axed just months after the 2013 national draft.

Isn't that the guy who washed up at Seaford earlier this year?

Raised a lot of eyebrows on here. Smells like 'a job for a mate' arrangement and I dont like it one bit.
Of course some of the posters who think every single thing the club do is right (despite one flag in 120 years) did their usual 'what would you know' spiel.
But this appointment is a shocker. Carlton's recruitment is demonstrably WORSE than a dart board. This guy is simply indefensible.

Hard to not give a +1 to that. Spot on.
If the selection criteria was that you had to be able to demonstrate a complete lack of skill in recruiting then I could better understand the decision.

[Con Gorozidis]

You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!

What are you talking about? Bennell is 22 with 79 AFL games to his name. Has already proven he can dominate top sides at AFL level. How in gods name is that comparable to anything Carlton have done in the last decade?
Seriously back up your claim with some kind of analysis?

Ill give you a start :

Carltank Recruitment

2008
Pick 24 - Robbie Warnock - big dud.
PIck 6 - Chris Yarran - 24yo - 108 games - just ok but may be a gun in a better side - down in the dumps this year - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... ris-YARRAN

2009 -
pick 11 - Brock Mclean - injured in 07 and 08. Did nothing. Was already washed up by injury by 2010.
pick 12 - Kane Lucas aged 24. 42 games. Not AFl standard http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... Kane-LUCAS

2010 -
Andrew Collins - 36 games. Retired.
Pick 18 - Matthew Watson - 23yo - 20 games - done nothing ever - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... hew-WATSON
Pick 34 - Patrick McCarthy - 1 AFL game - delisted.

2011
PIck 22 - Josh Bootsma - need I go on? - 14 games - retired.
Father Son - Dylan Buckley - 24 games - 22yo - very ordinary career so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... an-BUCKLEY

2012
Pick 11- Troy Menzel - 37 games - 20yo - ordinary so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... roy-MENZEL
Pick 35 Tom Temay - 0 games - 21 yo - retired.

2013
PIck 13 - Patrick Cripps - 20yo - 20 games - gun
Pick 33 - Sam Docherty - 21 yo - 46 games - seems pretty good

So which one of those recruitments is similar to Harley Bennell? I cant see any even close.

[Austinnn]

I thought this appointment was a rare mistake from the Saints, and I don't get it. Everyone knows Carlton recruited poorly, why would we touch anyone from that group of incompetents?

Still, we'll have to give them benefit of the doubt until after we see some of his action. Not going to hang him yet!
He's just one part of the team, so I hope they can all do a decent job without the Pelican.

[Goose is king]

Bit harsh on Troy Menzel there Con.
I reckon he is pure class

[HarryM]

Raised a lot of eyebrows on here. Smells like 'a job for a mate' arrangement and I dont like it one bit.
Of course some of the posters who think every single thing the club do is right (despite one flag in 120 years) did their usual 'what would you know' spiel.
But this appointment is a shocker. Carlton's recruitment is demonstrably WORSE than a dart board. This guy is simply indefensible.

Its not 'what'' you know, its more 'who' you know.

Always best to have someone beneath you who poses no threat to your job, easier to control things that way.

[Enrico_Misso]

Is Hughes the one we have to thank for recruiting Luke Livingston?

[spert]

We have a history of doing dumb things off the field as a club, and it is one of the reasons we have had little success, and are a financial basket-case. The only hope for success is to recruit the right talent and develop it within our means. I would always hope those employed in an off field role, will have had some proven degree of success. Not sure what the strengths of Mr Hughes are, but I hope the Carlton role is not an indicator.

[WinnersOnly]

You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!

Was a bit harsh with this sorry. No evidence to bag Hughes other than his recruiting record - hopefully the club gets this one right!

[prwilkinson]

I hope we don't pull the trigger at the trade table this summer... We're still a season or two away from topping up the list.

[sasaint]

I hope we don't pull the trigger at the trade table this summer... We're still a season or two away from topping up the list.

Agree. We should only trade for bargains (like Bruce) not chase and over pay for potential stars at this stage. We have an even chance of picking up a really A class recruit like Parish or Francis with our first round who will nicely fill a key role in our team. No point in selling the farm yet.

[gringo]

You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!

What are you talking about? Bennell is 22 with 79 AFL games to his name. Has already proven he can dominate top sides at AFL level. How in gods name is that comparable to anything Carlton have done in the last decade?
Seriously back up your claim with some kind of analysis?

Ill give you a start :

Carltank Recruitment

2008
Pick 24 - Robbie Warnock - big dud.
PIck 6 - Chris Yarran - 24yo - 108 games - just ok but may be a gun in a better side - down in the dumps this year - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... ris-YARRAN

2009 -
pick 11 - Brock Mclean - injured in 07 and 08. Did nothing. Was already washed up by injury by 2010.
pick 12 - Kane Lucas aged 24. 42 games. Not AFl standard http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... Kane-LUCAS

2010 -
Andrew Collins - 36 games. Retired.
Pick 18 - Matthew Watson - 23yo - 20 games - done nothing ever - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... hew-WATSON
Pick 34 - Patrick McCarthy - 1 AFL game - delisted.

2011
PIck 22 - Josh Bootsma - need I go on? - 14 games - retired.
Father Son - Dylan Buckley - 24 games - 22yo - very ordinary career so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... an-BUCKLEY

2012
Pick 11- Troy Menzel - 37 games - 20yo - ordinary so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... roy-MENZEL
Pick 35 Tom Temay - 0 games - 21 yo - retired.

2013
PIck 13 - Patrick Cripps - 20yo - 20 games - gun
Pick 33 - Sam Docherty - 21 yo - 46 games - seems pretty good

So which one of those recruitments is similar to Harley Bennell? I cant see any even close.

Menzel will be a very good player. He will be a grade.

[gringo]

We have a history of doing dumb things off the field as a club, and it is one of the reasons we have had little success, and are a financial basket-case. The only hope for success is to recruit the right talent and develop it within our means. I would always hope those employed in an off field role, will have had some proven degree of success. Not sure what the strengths of Mr Hughes are, but I hope the Carlton role is not an indicator.

I think his contacts with in the industry probably got him his job at the Saints. He will know all the player managers and talent spotters and have a network already. Your contact list can be worth more than your talent at times.

[saynta]

You can bet it has been Hughes recommending the club go after Bennell. Just smells of the sort of rubbish he pulled at Carlton. Bennell is a very good footballer, but has way too much baggage for our club, given our not to recent past! If we cant attract quality people/players then draft quality kids Saints. Stay the course you are half way there with your recruiting the last 2 years, dont let a fool like Hughes change a formula that is working!

What are you talking about? Bennell is 22 with 79 AFL games to his name. Has already proven he can dominate top sides at AFL level. How in gods name is that comparable to anything Carlton have done in the last decade?
Seriously back up your claim with some kind of analysis?

Ill give you a start :

Carltank Recruitment

2008
Pick 24 - Robbie Warnock - big dud.
PIck 6 - Chris Yarran - 24yo - 108 games - just ok but may be a gun in a better side - down in the dumps this year - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... ris-YARRAN

2009 -
pick 11 - Brock Mclean - injured in 07 and 08. Did nothing. Was already washed up by injury by 2010.
pick 12 - Kane Lucas aged 24. 42 games. Not AFl standard http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... Kane-LUCAS

2010 -
Andrew Collins - 36 games. Retired.
Pick 18 - Matthew Watson - 23yo - 20 games - done nothing ever - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... hew-WATSON
Pick 34 - Patrick McCarthy - 1 AFL game - delisted.

2011
PIck 22 - Josh Bootsma - need I go on? - 14 games - retired.
Father Son - Dylan Buckley - 24 games - 22yo - very ordinary career so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... an-BUCKLEY

2012
Pick 11- Troy Menzel - 37 games - 20yo - ordinary so far - http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Rati ... roy-MENZEL
Pick 35 Tom Temay - 0 games - 21 yo - retired.

2013
PIck 13 - Patrick Cripps - 20yo - 20 games - gun
Pick 33 - Sam Docherty - 21 yo - 46 games - seems pretty good

So which one of those recruitments is similar to Harley Bennell? I cant see any even close.

Menzel will be a very good player. He will be a grade.

Is that why Carlton dropped him for lack of effort and are looking to offload him?

[saynta]

We have a history of doing dumb things off the field as a club, and it is one of the reasons we have had little success, and are a financial basket-case. The only hope for success is to recruit the right talent and develop it within our means. I would always hope those employed in an off field role, will have had some proven degree of success. Not sure what the strengths of Mr Hughes are, but I hope the Carlton role is not an indicator.

I think his contacts with in the industry probably got him his job at the Saints. He will know all the player managers and talent spotters and have a network already. Your contact list can be worth more than your talent at times.

Well, lets hope he has something to offer. His record states that certainly doesn't have the talent to spot talented footballers.

[Junction Oval]

You build a Club with first-rate people, not those with a known poor record. A very disconcerting appointment by the Club.

[Old Mate]

Every time I think about this bloke getting a gig at our footy club I shake my head. He's the worst recruiter in the business. No doubt he would love to trade pick 6 for Carlisle.

[matrix]

so he is picking up footys and putting them in the bags after goal kicking practice yeah?