Hickey and Longer in the same team

[felix]

There has been much talk on here about how these two big men can't be in the same team together, but after yesterday's most magnificent win I thought we looked much stronger with the big men standing tall and all that in the last quarter when every one else is exhausted ..hickey was great in the first quarter taking two really good defensive marks as well .then resting forward to help seal the game .

[falka]

Look, it will be interesting how it all plays out long term.
No sub (and 4 on bench) if that comes in may help.

If it is working lets go with it, there is no one set formula for a successful team, you don't have to copy others.
It is a nice problem to have.

I think if Hickey keeps improving as a forward, it will be fine.

[plugger66]

Look, it will be interesting how it all plays out long term.
No sub (and 4 on bench) if that comes in may help.

If it is working lets go with it, there is no one set formula for a successful team, you don't have to copy others.
It is a nice problem to have.

I think if Hickey keeps improving as a forward, it will be fine.

That's the secret. Apart the Hawks not many if any club plays to ruckmen together but if Hickey can play a role as a forward for 60% of the game it will work. I think the days of 2 ruckmen rotating off the bench is finished even if the sub goes. In 2 games as a forward Hickey has certainly passed my expectations.

[bigcarl]

there is no one set formula for a successful team, you don't have to copy others.

Agree, you go with your strengths and we are lucky enough to have two potential A-grade ruckmen. We can set a trend that others may be forced to follow.

I noticed Hickey also took a couple of nice marks in the first half playing lose man in defence, so he is more versatile than he looks. It's not a bad tactic when you are under the pump, particularly late in games

[samuraisaint]

Sometimes it pays off large to be the trendsetter and not a trendfollower. Hickey's work around the ground was influential in the win, and the fact that he managed to get on the scoreboard puts extra pressure on the defenders. But you couldn't really fault Longer either - his work in the ruck contests was fantastic. Because he was gifted games last year and in the first five rounds this year his development has been fast tracked, and he has repaid the faith. Lewis Pierce and Holmes will be traded at the end of the year now. No doubt.

[plugger66]

Sometimes it pays off large to be the trendsetter and not a trendfollower. Hickey's work around the ground was influential in the win, and the fact that he managed to get on the scoreboard puts extra pressure on the defenders. But you couldn't really fault Longer either - his work in the ruck contests was fantastic. Because he was gifted games last year and in the first five rounds this year his development has been fast tracked, and he has repaid the faith. Lewis Pierce and Holmes will be traded at the end of the year now. No doubt.

I wouldn't think they will be traded at the end of the year because they have zero value and if 2 rucks are playing in the seniors you certainly need at one in the reserves.

[BackFromUSA]

Lewis Pierce should NOT be traded. IMHO may end up being the best of the lot. Whether he gets the opportunity or not will depend on injuries. His tapwork is spot on. He runs to the right spots and sets up well. No slouch forward either. If he comes on as I expect we shall 3 quality rucks on our list and with injuries etc to allow for - that is perfect.

[Goose is king]

West Coast play two ruckmen nic nat and Sinclair.
Goals from hickey is obviously key to their success together.
Both have at times this year taken the McEvoy type marks in defense which is also important.
Longers aggression is also important to this mix

[ROLS-LEE]

Sometimes it pays off large to be the trendsetter and not a trendfollower. Hickey's work around the ground was influential in the win, and the fact that he managed to get on the scoreboard puts extra pressure on the defenders. But you couldn't really fault Longer either - his work in the ruck contests was fantastic. Because he was gifted games last year and in the first five rounds this year his development has been fast tracked, and he has repaid the faith. Lewis Pierce and Holmes will be traded at the end of the year now. No doubt.

I wouldn't think they will be traded at the end of the year because they have zero value and if 2 rucks are playing in the seniors you certainly need at one in the reserves.

Have both passed your expectations that both will be better than Mc Evoy and that we rolled the dice and its paying off.

[plugger66]

West Coast play two ruckmen nic nat and Sinclair.
Goals from hickey is obviously key to their success together.
Both have at times this year taken the McEvoy type marks in defense which is also important.
Longers aggression is also important to this mix

Sinclair plays a forward though. And he has only played one game this year. It will work if Hickey continues his impressive forward play.

[bergholt]

Look, it will be interesting how it all plays out long term.
No sub (and 4 on bench) if that comes in may help.

If it is working lets go with it, there is no one set formula for a successful team, you don't have to copy others.
It is a nice problem to have.

I think if Hickey keeps improving as a forward, it will be fine.

That's the secret. Apart the Hawks not many if any club plays to ruckmen together but if Hickey can play a role as a forward for 60% of the game it will work. I think the days of 2 ruckmen rotating off the bench is finished even if the sub goes. In 2 games as a forward Hickey has certainly passed my expectations.

I reckon Hickey's played 80% forward the last two weeks, so it just might work.

[SainterK]

That's why I wanted him in.

Tom is a smart footballer

[loris]

Freo have been playing two ruckmen.....Sandilands & Clarke...only time they didn't last season was when one of them was out injured.

[scallopsroe]

Freo (Sandilands and Clarke) and Port (Lobbe and Ryder) are two other teams that go into games with two ruck men, seems to work well for the top sides that arrangement and will become essential next year with the reduced cap on interchanges. Big men don't get any shorter as the game gets into the final quarter. Importantly they stay on the ground resting down forward or across the half back line. This removes the need for a tall forward to ruck and weaken the forward structure.

[remboy]

I'd be interested to know who the club was going to sub it if Savage hadn't been injured. My feeling was that one of the ruckmen would have subbed out to give us more run. During the first half I kept thinking having two ruckman was hampering us re rotations and flexibility on the ground.
Shows how much I know. Thought both Longer and Hickey did some really important things in the last quarter. Longer is even starting to have a bit of presence in the contests.

[ROLS-LEE]

Longer now just needs to work on not giving away silly frees by illegally overpowering his opponent in a ball up and clunk a few more marks. It will come. Definitely improving each game.

[Jacks Back]

I know it is only very, very early (only two games they have played together) but it's funny how these things work out. If Roo hadn't got injured and Membrey and/or McCartin had taken some of their chances then Hickey may not have even got a look in unless it was to replace Longer rather than play with Longer. It was serendipitous that this has occurred.

[maverick]

I know it is only very, very early (only two games they have played together) but it's funny how these things work out. If Roo hadn't got injured and Membrey and/or McCartin had taken some of their chances then Hickey may not have even got a look in unless it was to replace Longer rather than play with Longer. It was serendipitous that this has occurred.

I don't know about that.
I think it has always been the plan.
Hickey knows how to play forward.

[Jacks Back]

I know it is only very, very early (only two games they have played together) but it's funny how these things work out. If Roo hadn't got injured and Membrey and/or McCartin had taken some of their chances then Hickey may not have even got a look in unless it was to replace Longer rather than play with Longer. It was serendipitous that this has occurred.

I don't know about that.
I think it has always been the plan.
Hickey knows how to play forward.

Hickey is a ruckman and was recruited for the ruck duties. It's fortunate that he is a bit more mobile than ou other ruckmen and can currently play forward a bit.

[Toy Saint]

Interesting that we traded Rhys Stanley.....who incidently was good this weekend....good leap in the ruck and good recovery...almost an extra mid..Cats would be happy with their side of the trade

Saints seem to have an abundance of Ruck/Forwards...

[kosifantutti]

I still don't think Longer can play forward and I'm still worried about his marking.

He clunked a great mark in the last minute but there were many times yesterday where he either dropped marks, got outbodied or just didn't look like holding anything.

As it is, if Longer needs a break from the ruck, he has to go off which brings Hickey into the ruck and changes the whole forward structure.

[saintsRrising]

I still don't think Longer can play forward and I'm still worried about his marking.

He clunked a great mark in the last minute but there were many times yesterday where he either dropped marks, got outbodied or just didn't look like holding anything.

As it is, if Longer needs a break from the ruck, he has to go off which brings Hickey into the ruck and changes the whole forward structure.

For myself too the question of a Hickey/Longer Combo is not Hickey, but Longer.

Longer is progressing very nicely in his tap-work. But in todays football a ruckman also needs to contribute around the ground, and Longer still needs to improve vastly in this regard. He is young still with a lot of time to improve. But his marking is a great concern for me at present as he just does not seem to take the marks he should. He gets his hands to the ball, it it often bounces out all too easily. I am not sure how maucha player can improve their marking ability.

If Longer stays primarly as a tap-out beast, then IMO he cannot remain long-term as our No1 ruck. It is fine now to develop him, but he needs to become better around the ground.

Hickey is a vastly better around the ground than Longer at present, and most certainly asa forward option. Not as good with his tap-work, though I am sure it will improve.

Longer by contrast as a forward option is very limited, and around the ground is only so so. Billy is only 21 years and 11 months old though.

[dragit]

The way I see it is we aren't really playing two ruckmen.

Hickey was playing as a key forward, so as long as he is doing that better than anyone else out of the side, then it will work.

He only had 5 hitouts on Saturday, so we would not be losing a lot of "rucking" if he was replaced by Lee, McCartin or White (pending form of course).

If he is that much better than Longer around the ground, then I would probably prefer him roaming around doing the majority of the ruck work as he can probably influence a game more that way.

Getting 40 hitouts and only 6 disposals is Warnock-material and I think the game is evolving past this type of ruckmen personally.

[Linton Lodger]

And Holmes will soon be knocking on the door.

[SainterK]

Its like versions of Gardiner and King.

Just 10 years younger and on the dawn of their careers, not the twilight.