What's the Brions secret?

[falka]

To answer the OP.

Its called having a red hot crack, with lots of mids.

No secret formula, lets be honest, we aren't very good in these 2 areas.

Seriously, we have played many insipid games

[jonesy]

They have the two most underrated players in the league in rockliff and Hanley. Both stars

[Con Gorozidis]

Lions playing some good exciting play-on footy.
Good on em I reckon.

They will be very keen to get their hands on McCartin, Durdin or Two metre Peter this draft you would reckon.

[mr six o'clock]

How far is this corner i keep hearing about and when we reach it i hope we don't veer the wrong way and hit something

[saintsRrising]

Heaps of guys leave, new coach, struggling...

Why are they seemingly turning the corner, kids showing a bit, selling a bit of hope...

We are struggling huh

What's the Brions secret?

No secret.

1/ As others have noted, they started their rebuild earlier.

2/ While they have made their recruiting/ trading mistakes too (ie Fev) our "black hole" is a lot bigger than theirs (ie the latter GT years and Lyon years when our recruiters were absolute no-hopers at picking talent in the draft). So we are starting from further back

3/ Pelchen has been willing to make our current hole deeper by being willing to lose some guns and ok players now to get more younger players in with the strategy (and hope) being that this will shorten our time in the wilderness (jury is still out, but that is the clear strategy).


I don't know if Richo can coach or not. But I do know he was given a dreadful list chock full of kids, with the strategy of getting even more young players.

GWs has had the best kids in the land, and look how they are going. So I do not expect Richo without that draft largess to have a magic wand.

[Con Gorozidis]

How far is this corner i keep hearing about and when we reach it i hope we don't veer the wrong way and hit something

Well the Lions have only played in two finals matches since the 2004 Grand Final.....

So the corner can be a way away....

[bergholt]

Lions have won 7 out of 20 games - 35% win percentage

We have won 4 out of 20 - 20% win percentage

Lions have 15% more wins than us

Ahhh yes...forgot bye rounds...thanks for the correction.

15% more wins? That's a very misleading way to look at it!

[bergholt]

Heaps of guys leave, new coach, struggling...

Why are they seemingly turning the corner, kids showing a bit, selling a bit of hope...

We are struggling huh

Completely different positions.

Brissie are deep into their rebuild, we're years behind them

A good measure of where a list is at is the number of players between 50 and 150ish games. That's your core, the guys who keep you competitive in games or win them for you.

Brisbane have 17: Staker, Raines, Redden, McGuane, Rich, Rockliff, Hanley, Polkinghorne, Leuenberger, Martin, West, Bewick, Zorko, Harwood, Green, Lester, Golby.

We have 9: Jones, Gilbert, Gwilt, Armitage, Geary, Steven, Savage, Roberton, Stanley.

I don't know their list well at all but their group looks ok to me. At least six or seven guys who'd get a game at any club.

Wher as we have two who've been injured all year, two who've been stuck in the VFL - maybe three total who would play regularly at other teams.

So I just don't know how you can pretend we should be doing as well as them.


As an addendum, here's another core:

18 guys: Schulz, Westhoff, Boak, Carlile, Ebert, White, Logan, Gray, Broadbent, Trengove, Hartlett, Stewart, Renouf, Lobbe, Wingard, O'Shea, Jonas, Pittard.

Some real quality there for Port. That's why they're top 8 and we're on the bottom.

[stevie]

Their early poor form was mostly due to Rich going down. He had easily been their best player before that, in his new qtrback role

[Cairnsman]

Lions have won 7 out of 20 games - 35% win percentage

We have won 4 out of 20 - 20% win percentage

Lions have 15% more wins than us

Ahhh yes...forgot bye rounds...thanks for the correction.

15% more wins? That's a very misleading way to look at it!

How so? numbers don't lie. That and plus they are 15th on the ladder and will probably still be a bottom 4 team next year as well.

They only beat the Pies, we would beat them if we played them this week.

[The Redeemer]

The Lions spent many a year doing not much whilst barely moving. It cannot be argued that it was the hangover from the years of Grand Finals either.

Poor trading, poor drafting coupled with a few players heading home.

Have they turned the corner? Who knows however they could still be on a path to nothingness that rebuilds sometimes head towards (Blues, Dons, Dees)

[plugger66]

Lions have won 7 out of 20 games - 35% win percentage

We have won 4 out of 20 - 20% win percentage

Lions have 15% more wins than us

Ahhh yes...forgot bye rounds...thanks for the correction.

15% more wins? That's a very misleading way to look at it!

How so? numbers don't lie. That and plus they are 15th on the ladder and will probably still be a bottom 4 team next year as well.

They only beat the Pies, we would beat them if we played them this week.

Your maths is poor by your own admission. They have 75% more wins than us. That there is no doubt. They have won 35% of games played this year and we have won 20% but that doesnt mean they have 15% more wins than us. Its just wrong. And I would be very doubftful we would have beaten the pies on Saturday but unlike the maths that only an opinion and the other is fact.

[bergholt]

15% more wins? That's a very misleading way to look at it!

How so? numbers don't lie.

People who say "numbers don't lie" have presumably never had a job working with numbers. Give me half an hour and I can find "numbers" to support whatever conclusion you want.

Regardless of that, you're just wrong. If you've got a 10% chance of winning something and I've got a 5% chance, that means you're twice as likely to win as I am. 100% more chance, not "5% more chance". Same applies here.

[Cairnsman]

15% more wins? That's a very misleading way to look at it!

How so? numbers don't lie.

People who say "numbers don't lie" have presumably never had a job working with numbers. Give me half an hour and I can find "numbers" to support whatever conclusion you want.

Regardless of that, you're just wrong. If you've got a 10% chance of winning something and I've got a 5% chance, that means you're twice as likely to win as I am. 100% more chance, not "5% more chance". Same applies here.

I work with numbers on a daily basis, admittedly I get things wrong but in this case I think I'm right in terms of the statement made by P66.

If we are talking wins only then the Lions have only 57% more than us. He's getting things confused with standard lengths of PVC pipes.

[plugger66]

15% more wins? That's a very misleading way to look at it!

How so? numbers don't lie.

People who say "numbers don't lie" have presumably never had a job working with numbers. Give me half an hour and I can find "numbers" to support whatever conclusion you want.

Regardless of that, you're just wrong. If you've got a 10% chance of winning something and I've got a 5% chance, that means you're twice as likely to win as I am. 100% more chance, not "5% more chance". Same applies here.

I work with numbers on a daily basis, admittedly I get things wrong but in this case I think I'm right in terms of the statement made by P66.

If we are talking wins only then the Lions have only 57% more than us. He's getting things confused with standard lengths of PVC pipes.

My god CM you just are failing badly. WB have won 75% more games than us. Stop talking please. You agreed with 15% before.

[thejiggingsaint]

I concur!

[Cairnsman]

15% more wins? That's a very misleading way to look at it!

How so? numbers don't lie.

People who say "numbers don't lie" have presumably never had a job working with numbers. Give me half an hour and I can find "numbers" to support whatever conclusion you want.

Regardless of that, you're just wrong. If you've got a 10% chance of winning something and I've got a 5% chance, that means you're twice as likely to win as I am. 100% more chance, not "5% more chance". Same applies here.

I work with numbers on a daily basis, admittedly I get things wrong but in this case I think I'm right in terms of the statement made by P66.

If we are talking wins only then the Lions have only 57% more than us. He's getting things confused with standard lengths of PVC pipes.

My god CM you just are failing badly. WB have won 75% more games than us. Stop talking please. You agreed with 15% before.

If a team had 7 wins and and that represents 100%... or say one whole then does the following make sense.

4/7 = 57%

100% - 57% .= 43% more wins.

Maybe we both had it wrong.

[thejiggingsaint]

Brisbane played well against Colondud, of that there's no doubt. One could, however argue that the injuries suffered by the pies would have put most sides firmly under the pump. Let's not gloss over a 100+ point flogging by Adelaide (on their own midden) a short seven days earlier.

[Johnny Member]

We are probably 10% into building our next good team.

Supporters can't forget that.


We've been to the draft once on this rebuild.


Most of our 'core' currently would not even get a game at almost all other clubs. We won't see any significant improvement until we have guys on our list better than what we currently have.

We don't have a Zorko or a Rockcliffe, or a Hanley.


I don't think we can start comparing ourselves to any other team in the comp. We are so far behind everyone else in terms of our rebuild that it's like comparing apples and oranges. Getting huffy, frustrated or even 'concerned' is a waste of energy.


In my opinion, 2014 has given us no indication of where we'll be at in 2-3 years. If anything, it's just proven that the vast majority of our list isn't any good. We have some great old guys who should be playing bit roles by now, and we have one or two young guys with talent and potential.

If we have a good run with injuries, 2015 will see some exciting times. But still some genuine lowlights.

2016 will be the same as we adjust to life after Riewoldt.

2017 should see the current crop of draftees start to notch up 50 odd games together and with any luck, a star or two will have emerged. Concurrently, Steven and hopefully Armitage will continue their improvement and have reached their potential. Hopefully we'd have lured an A-grader or two to the club by then too.

But it's not until the above happens that we can expect anything other than chronic mediocrity.

Melbourne, GWS and Brisbane are two years ahead of us. Any comparisons with them is futile.


For what it's worth, I think having 4 win this year has exceeded my expectations. I legitimately felt we could go winless. If I was told we'd have the injuries that we'd had prior to the season beginning, I'd have been certain we'd go winless (and to be fair we may well have considering 2 of 4 our wins occurred before the injuries really hit).

I'm not worried or concerned at all.

If we reach 2017 and we're not seeing improvement and legitimate talent on the list, then I'll be worried. But really all 2014 and 2015 can be about is getting quality young guys to the club and getting them playing footy together as a unit.

[thejiggingsaint]

I concur!

[Johnny Member]

It needs to be remembered, that Longer has rucked almost all year on his own. And he's still a child in ruckman terms. We've been killed in this area, as our starting midfield usually has at least 2 teenagers in it roving off a 21yo ruckman with only 20 odd games under his belt!

Getting injuries is one thing, but getting them to your number 1 ruckman when your no. 2 ruckman is barely an adult really hurts. It'd hurt any team - let alone one in the stage of development we are at.

Losing over half our backline, whilst you're trying to blood young kids down there and get the newcomers to gel with the other backmen, kills you. As per above, it's badly hurt any team - let alone us.

[plugger66]

15% more wins? That's a very misleading way to look at it!

How so? numbers don't lie.

People who say "numbers don't lie" have presumably never had a job working with numbers. Give me half an hour and I can find "numbers" to support whatever conclusion you want.

Regardless of that, you're just wrong. If you've got a 10% chance of winning something and I've got a 5% chance, that means you're twice as likely to win as I am. 100% more chance, not "5% more chance". Same applies here.

I work with numbers on a daily basis, admittedly I get things wrong but in this case I think I'm right in terms of the statement made by P66.

If we are talking wins only then the Lions have only 57% more than us. He's getting things confused with standard lengths of PVC pipes.

My god CM you just are failing badly. WB have won 75% more games than us. Stop talking please. You agreed with 15% before.

If a team had 7 wins and and that represents 100%... or say one whole then does the following make sense.

4/7 = 57%

100% - 57% .= 43% more wins.

Maybe we both had it wrong.

CM you just continue to fail. I said at the start that Brisbane and the WB had won 75% more games than us and you then said my maths was poor. Well the figure I quoted is correct what ever way you are trying to spin it. We have won 57% less games than the WB and Brisbane. Surely you are getting it now. 43% more wins. What are you on about. Just admit you are wrong as everyone has suggested. Its ok to admit wrong.

[mullet]

Excellent post JM.

I hope we don't compare ourselves to anyone and try and find a way through that others will want to copy.

We need to stop comparing and actually be ground breakers.

Its like the old Colorado training chestnut, everyone copied but didn't really get anyone anywhere. It
worked for Collingwood, but there is a whole other thread questioning them.

Personally, I have loved watching the kids come through.

AS for worrying, geez if only this was all we had to worry about.

[thejiggingsaint]

I concur Mr Mullet!

[Johnny Member]

Excellent post JM.

I hope we don't compare ourselves to anyone and try and find a way through that others will want to copy.

We need to stop comparing and actually be ground breakers.

Its like the old Colorado training chestnut, everyone copied but didn't really get anyone anywhere. It
worked for Collingwood, but there is a whole other thread questioning them.

Personally, I have loved watching the kids come through.

AS for worrying, geez if only this was all we had to worry about.

In terms of comparing ourselves, I'm not referring to copying what others are doing. I'm referring to supporters attempting to draw comparison with other lowly clubs and getting tense as to why they're winning more than us.

Although at the bottom end of the ladder, that's where the comparisons cease. We are in a completely different phase to what the others find themselves in. And as a result, performances will differ.