Leadership Group Vote - Geary - AFL.com article

[Con Gorozidis]

So everything we say on here about the 'lost generation' of recruiting is true.

Basically a 5 year period without any good players means we have a big hollow right in the centre of our list. We have basically nothing in the core age group of 26-30. You can't win a lot of games with a list like that unfortunately. This is why I can't see us finishing above bottom 4 in 2014.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-02-16/h ... en-saints-

"Fruitless recruiting and trading for mature players in the Ross Lyon era when the Saints were close to a premiership have left the club's list with a generation of players missing.

This is emphasised in the leadership group: Hayes is the oldest at 34 and Riewoldt second at 31. Montagna and Dempster are both 30, with the former to turn 31 this year.

Armitage is 25 and seven days older than Geary."

[BigMart]

Nah, not if you listen to some on here around 2011?!

We did everything right.... Eggs in one basket stuff was correct... All great clubs do it!!!! Because if you fail, it leaves the club in a great position!

Though some have changed their tune nowadays, but forgot their antics of yesteryear?!

[plugger66]

Nah, not if you listen to some on here around 2011?!

We did everything right.... Eggs in one basket stuff was correct... All great clubs do it!!!! Because if you fail, it leaves the club in a great position!

Though some have changed their tune nowadays, but forgot their antics of yesteryear?!

What idiot ever said that. They would have to be a fool. What I have read here is some people usually think the club know best why certain players are taken. That doesnt make it a good decision but they have many more facts than some on here. I actually read that someone thought a young 18 year old kid would be no good because there wasnt a photo of him.

[bergholt]

Nah, not if you listen to some on here around 2011?!

We did everything right.... Eggs in one basket stuff was correct... All great clubs do it!!!! Because if you fail, it leaves the club in a great position!

Though some have changed their tune nowadays, but forgot their antics of yesteryear?!

What?

The reason we're in this position is because of poor drafting across multiple years. Are you saying the club planned to draft poorly?

[stinger]

So everything we say on here about the 'lost generation' of recruiting is true.

Basically a 5 year period without any good players means we have a big hollow right in the centre of our list. We have basically nothing in the core age group of 26-30. You can't win a lot of games with a list like that unfortunately. This is why I can't see us finishing above bottom 4 in 2014.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-02-16/h ... en-saints-

"Fruitless recruiting and trading for mature players in the Ross Lyon era when the Saints were close to a premiership have left the club's list with a generation of players missing.

This is emphasised in the leadership group: Hayes is the oldest at 34 and Riewoldt second at 31. Montagna and Dempster are both 30, with the former to turn 31 this year.

Armitage is 25 and seven days older than Geary."

well...i'm not alone in here blaming lyon.......hope he similarly destroys the shockers

[whiskers3614]

Nah, not if you listen to some on here around 2011?!

We did everything right.... Eggs in one basket stuff was correct... All great clubs do it!!!! Because if you fail, it leaves the club in a great position!

Though some have changed their tune nowadays, but forgot their antics of yesteryear?!

What?

The reason we're in this position is because of poor drafting across multiple years. Are you saying the club planned to draft poorly?

No they didn't plan to
just left a megalomaniac psychopath in charge of the coaches box and recruiting.
"In Ross we trust"

[plugger66]

Nah, not if you listen to some on here around 2011?!

We did everything right.... Eggs in one basket stuff was correct... All great clubs do it!!!! Because if you fail, it leaves the club in a great position!

Though some have changed their tune nowadays, but forgot their antics of yesteryear?!

What?

The reason we're in this position is because of poor drafting across multiple years. Are you saying the club planned to draft poorly?

No they didn't plan to
just left a megalomaniac psychopath in charge of the coaches box and recruiting.
"In Ross we trust"

At least the next coach solved all our problems. Im still pretty sure RL had limited imput into the pathetic recruiting of younger drafted players. Luckily we did trade for a few older proven players like Schneider, dempster, Ray, King and MG. Im still pretty sure the only lowish pick we lost in the years he was there was when we got Lovett.

[saintsRrising]

Nah, not if you listen to some on here around 2011?!

We did everything right.... Eggs in one basket stuff was correct... All great clubs do it!!!! Because if you fail, it leaves the club in a great position!

Though some have changed their tune nowadays, but forgot their antics of yesteryear?!

What Rubbish. What eggs in one basket?

Yes Lyon brought in experienced players to top up for a GF tilt..and got into GFs in two years.

However that did not hurt us (it actually worked!!)...what hurt us was the abysmal drafting or young players through the draft, for a broad band of years we got virtually every draft pick wrong. That is where the damage was done.

[BigMart]

But ATT the time none were wrong were they?

[dragit]

But ATT the time none were wrong were they?

You were right all along.

We're all such idiots.












Tom Ledger

[matrix]

jesus christ a s*** bounce of a footy in 2010 and a couple of goals in 2009 (plus ball on the bench and bartel shutting lenny down) and we'd all be saying who gives a crap about a generation gap
with two premiership posters framed on my wall i think i could accept a generation gap in the team list ffs

it didnt end up that way and its i told you so
it ends up that way and someone else says i told you so

lets keep harping on about what happen 4 odd years ago and who thought it was a good thing and who thought it was crazy
blimey, who wouldnt take the risk for a couple of prems???

[dcstkfc]

jesus christ a s*** bounce of a footy in 2010 and a couple of goals in 2009 (plus ball on the bench and bartel shutting lenny down) and we'd all be saying who gives a crap about a generation gap
with two premiership posters framed on my wall i think i could accept a generation gap in the team list ffs

it didnt end up that way and its i told you so
it ends up that way and someone else says i told you so

lets keep harping on about what happen 4 odd years ago and who thought it was a good thing and who thought it was crazy
blimey, who wouldnt take the risk for a couple of prems???

Brilliant post.

Which club in their right mind wouldn't do everything in its power to strike while the iron was hot in 08-11 when they've won a single premiership in 135 years of existence?!

We were as close as you could possibly be to a flag, and easily could have had two. We have none, and we have to bear it. Not Ross's fault.

[BigMart]

I thought our 2000-2002 draft bonanza was good from 2004-2011

But it didn't mean we had to stop developing kids to be win a premiership.... 2 a year minimum need to be found

The drafting of Pattison and Polo was mystifying IMO

The lack of games into Stanley, Armitage, Steven was strange when it became apparent they could be future players

[plugger66]

I thought our 2000-2002 draft bonanza was good from 2004-2011

But it didn't mean we had to stop developing kids to be win a premiership.... 2 a year minimum need to be found

The drafting of Pattison and Polo was mystifying IMO

The lack of games into Stanley, Armitage, Steven was strange when it became apparent they could be future players

Steven had bad groins which he has since said. Armo played 12 games in his second year but obviously lacked what RL wanted him to do in his thirs year. Stanley got many more than he deserved. have no idea where that has come from. yep Polo and Pattison didnt work out but how did you think Dempster would go after he was drafted. Anyway those picks costs bugger all.

[skeptic]

Persevering with guys like McQualter in 2011 when his game was sooooo consistently poorly is not an example of coaching to win premierships now.

I can respect the strategy of not developing kids whilst we're going for a premiership. The implication is, we're not playing kids because our best 22 is clearly set and no one outside will develop in time.

This unfortunetly was not the case. We had a number passengers that were carried over our dominant period. Whilst it wasn't too bad in 09, in 2010 there were 4 players at least that were poor for the majority of the season but kept getting played... Dempster, McQualter, Gram, Eddy (possibly more I can't really remember anymore, I don't think Ray had a great year but am not sure). I still feel that guys like Armo were deprived of opportunity to overtake some of those guys who despite playing worse were persevered with.

That's not part of the play your best 22 strategy and these two things are not mutually exclusive

[bergholt]

Persevering with guys like McQualter in 2011 when his game was sooooo consistently poorly is not an example of coaching to win premierships now.

McQualter played 5 games in 2011.

[stinger]

Nah, not if you listen to some on here around 2011?!

We did everything right.... Eggs in one basket stuff was correct... All great clubs do it!!!! Because if you fail, it leaves the club in a great position!

Though some have changed their tune nowadays, but forgot their antics of yesteryear?!

What?

The reason we're in this position is because of poor drafting across multiple years. Are you saying the club planned to draft poorly?

No they didn't plan to
just left a megalomaniac psychopath in charge of the coaches box and recruiting.
"In Ross we trust"

love that comment

[skeptic]

Persevering with guys like McQualter in 2011 when his game was sooooo consistently poorly is not an example of coaching to win premierships now.

McQualter played 5 games in 2011.

My bad, I meant 2010, which I guess u figured out

[bergholt]

Persevering with guys like McQualter in 2011 when his game was sooooo consistently poorly is not an example of coaching to win premierships now.

McQualter played 5 games in 2011.

My bad, I meant 2010, which I guess u figured out

I suppose, but then you forget how good he was in 2009. He had a goal per game, an assist per game, 4.7 tackles per game. He was a huge component of that side and he was still only 22 or 23.

Then in 2010 he had 7 goals and 11 assists in the first 13 rounds. Not a lot worse. He wasn't going that badly and we were winning a good number of games. He definitely dropped off after that especially in the finals, but that's much more obvious in hindsight.

[kosifantutti]

Persevering with guys like McQualter in 2011 when his game was sooooo consistently poorly is not an example of coaching to win premierships now.

I can respect the strategy of not developing kids whilst we're going for a premiership. The implication is, we're not playing kids because our best 22 is clearly set and no one outside will develop in time.

This unfortunetly was not the case. We had a number passengers that were carried over our dominant period. Whilst it wasn't too bad in 09, in 2010 there were 4 players at least that were poor for the majority of the season but kept getting played... Dempster, McQualter, Gram, Eddy (possibly more I can't really remember anymore, I don't think Ray had a great year but am not sure). I still feel that guys like Armo were deprived of opportunity to overtake some of those guys who despite playing worse were persevered with.

That's not part of the play your best 22 strategy and these two things are not mutually exclusive

So four or more players carried for the year in 2010, Riewoldt missing most of the year, where did we finish? 12th - 14th would be my guess.

[Con Gorozidis]

I can distinctly remember a 7 match streak - in either 09 or 10 where McQualter didn't touch the ball. 7 straight games. We were winning so no one really said anything.

Then there was the time when Eddy wasn't touching it for long streaks of games - and people invented the 'space filling role'. Once again we were winning so people were believing in all sorts of crackpot theories to explain their ongoing selections.

[plugger66]

I can distinctly remember a 7 match streak - in either 09 or 10 where McQualter didn't touch the ball. 7 straight games. We were winning so no one really said anything.

Then there was the time when Eddy wasn't touching it for long streaks of games - and people invented the 'space filling role'. Once again we were winning so people were believing in all sorts of crackpot theories to explain their ongoing selections.

Well that is obviously a lie but then again Billings wont be as good as that country guy.

[Scollop]

Ross Lyon certainly benefited from his relationship with the St Kilda footy club. Did St Kilda benefit more or did Ross benefit more? As soon as he wrote off the playing list in April 2011, that is when in his mind he needed to find a new employer. I'm not sure Saints fans and the Saints players realised how influential those words were when the coach and leader of a footy team started doubting the capabilities of his playing list.

Ross Lyon not only failed in the leaderships stakes, but he also left a vacuum and the St Kilda footy club has been left with the problem.

Lyon wanted to bag a guy like Luke Ball and found faults in Luke's game and thought that the Saints would be better off without him. Lyon wanted to bring in to the footy club a guy like Andrew Lovett. To me that says it all. That is the legacy of Ross Lyon.

[plugger66]

Ross Lyon certainly benefited from his relationship with the St Kilda footy club. Did St Kilda benefit more or did Ross benefit more? As soon as he wrote off the playing list in April 2011, that is when in his mind he needed to find a new employer. I'm not sure Saints fans and the Saints players realised how influential those words were when the coach and leader of a footy team started doubting the capabilities of his playing list.

Ross Lyon not only failed in the leaderships stakes, but he also left a vacuum and the St Kilda footy club has been left with the problem.

Lyon wanted to bag a guy like Luke Ball and found faults in Luke's game and thought that the Saints would be better off without him. Lyon wanted to bring in to the footy club a guy like Andrew Lovett. To me that says it all. That is the legacy of Ross Lyon.

Agree and you also got SW so right. Please for all of us dont even comment on AR. What I find funny is everyone who even slightly understood footy know what was going to happen if we didnt win a GF but a club like us who have one flag in 130 years taking a punt like that is really ordinary.

[saintspremiers]

The thing that's missing from the article is our drafting hit rate. That's just a fact and would show to the mug punter what went wrong