What exactly has Scott done?

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

what exactly has he allegedly done to create this situation? The current situation goes beyond the sort of "spat" that occurs from time to time in football clubs.

It's irrelevant whether SW "created" the situation. If the board reviewed his position and deemed him not up to scratch, and/or has issues with his relationship with Chris Pelchen then that's a big problem. And retaining him, whilst making him wait on an extension, makes for a very awkward situation.

If his position isn't untenable (which I hope is the case, because I like him) then at the very least it's made for a very uneasy environment to coach in.

I'd prefer to take the optimistic view that there is "good" tension and conflict that will drive us forward, but the reality is as follows. We need a new CEO, Head of Fitness & Conditioning, Jaymie Graham's replacement, and we need to sort out the assistant coaches for next year. Given it's late October, I get the feeling we're way behind most other clubs, bar maybe Brisbane. Thoughts anyone?

That's the most disappointing thing - the club has had a while to manage the transition period between Westaway and whoever the new president was going to be, yet there's been an exodus and now we're just in limbo. With the playing list trying to rebuild, stability is really paramount at the minute yet we now have to re-stock our development staff and find a CEO. Dean Laidley reportedly hasn't signed on for another season yet either.

[Cairnsman]

If there has to be a scapegoat - hopefully its Laidley

Watters he done Laidley?

That is clever.

[dragit]

If there has to be a scapegoat - hopefully its Laidley

Watters he done Laidley?

That is clever.

Actually, I think it was MarkP who coined it...

I'm not that clever.

[defacto]

is white winmar still trying to find people to join him in a circle jerk over the idea of sacking watters

Bizarre. Far from wanting him sacked, the point of the post is to call out those who want him sacked to provide evidence as to what it is that he has supposedly done to deserve this sort of speculation. Not enough analysis, defacto. You missed the mark completely. Excessive masturbation will do that to you. Makes you blind as well, I'm told.

Lol this is goin to be funny. I owe you an apology mate. Don't come here often. I've mistaken you for winners only. Saw this thread and thought here we go again

Sorry again!!!!

[Con Gorozidis]

Its all scotts fault.
We should be in gfs every year.
Lets get spud and banger as coach
Im a retard

[White Winmar]

is white winmar still trying to find people to join him in a circle jerk over the idea of sacking watters

Bizarre. Far from wanting him sacked, the point of the post is to call out those who want him sacked to provide evidence as to what it is that he has supposedly done to deserve this sort of speculation. Not enough analysis, defacto. You missed the mark completely. Excessive masturbation will do that to you. Makes you blind as well, I'm told.

Lol this is goin to be funny. I owe you an apology mate. Don't come here often. I've mistaken you for winners only. Saw this thread and thought here we go again

Sorry again!!!!

No drama, thanks.

[Ned Stark]

Have been reading a lot that Watters is on thin ice. As far as I can tell, no one has convincingly answered the question posed by this thread. What is that Watters has done that is so bad that he is facing the sack after two years spent largely cleaning up the mess that Ross Lyon left? There seems to be people on this forum who have inside sources. What exactly has he done? Sacking Watters would be such a St Kilda thing to do.

[Devilhead]

Have been reading a lot that Watters is on thin ice. As far as I can tell, no one has convincingly answered the question posed by this thread. What is that Watters has done that is so bad that he is facing the sack after two years spent largely cleaning up the mess that Ross Lyon left? There seems to be people on this forum who have inside sources. What exactly has he done? Sacking Watters would be such a St Kilda thing to do.

Unfortunately Ned we have been told by certain "inside sources"that we have to "respect their right" not to dilvulge this information even though they have happily hang drawn and quartered SW in a very public manner without substantiated reason.

Best you not hold your breath waiting for a reply to your succinct question!!

[plugger66]

Have been reading a lot that Watters is on thin ice. As far as I can tell, no one has convincingly answered the question posed by this thread. What is that Watters has done that is so bad that he is facing the sack after two years spent largely cleaning up the mess that Ross Lyon left? There seems to be people on this forum who have inside sources. What exactly has he done? Sacking Watters would be such a St Kilda thing to do.

Unfortunately Ned we have been told by certain "inside sources"that we have to "respect their right" not to dilvulge this information even though they have happily hang drawn and quartered SW in a very public manner without substantiated reason.

Best you not hold your breath waiting for a reply to your succinct question!!

Lets face it Jaxons does have inside information on drafting. That is fact. No one could have got the ben trade right like that without it. So why wouldnt he also have inside information on how the coach is going?

[samoht]

Lets face it Jaxons does have inside information on drafting. That is fact. No one could have got the ben trade right like that without it. So why wouldnt he also have inside information on how the coach is going?

Jaxons is more than likely in the same (anti-SW) camp as those people who are passing the inside info on to him.
Even if there are some grumblings, this camp may be causing unnecessary instability - the inside info may be right but what they're doing (causing instability) may be wrong.

[plugger66]

Lets face it Jaxons does have inside information on drafting. That is fact. No one could have got the ben trade right like that without it. So why wouldnt he also have inside information on how the coach is going?

Jaxons may also be in the same (anti-SW) camp as those people who are passing the the inside info on to him.
Even if there are some grumblings, this camp may be causing unnecessary instability - the inside info may be right but what they're doing (causing instability) may be wrong.

That could be true but also he may have direct information. Who would know apart from him. The fact that there is a camp inside the club that thinks that about SW isnt good anyway.

[samoht]

Lets face it Jaxons does have inside information on drafting. That is fact. No one could have got the ben trade right like that without it. So why wouldnt he also have inside information on how the coach is going?

Jaxons may also be in the same (anti-SW) camp as those people who are passing the the inside info on to him.
Even if there are some grumblings, this camp may be causing unnecessary instability - the inside info may be right but what they're doing (causing instability) may be wrong.

That could be true but also he may have direct information. Who would know apart from him. The fact that there is a camp inside the club that thinks that about SW isnt good anyway.

That camp (itself) may be no good. That's what could be wrong (with the club) at the moment.
They may be looking for a simplistic solution - but what would a new coach and game plan do?
Are they after a yes man? - if they have all the answers, why don't they put their hand up to coach the team themselves, as there's no guarantee the next coach would see things their way, anyway?

[spert]

I was a bit worried during the season when I heard Jack Steven in an interview commenting about Watters " yeah he's a good coach" almost like a throwaway line with not much conviction in it.

[joffaboy]

Well lets face it, he has stumpy legs and played for both Sydney ahd Freo.

Three wrong things for a start

[Ned Stark]

Let me clarify: I don't want anyone to divulge sources or anything of that nature. Was just hoping for some specifics about what Scotty has done which has got him to the brink of being sacked. At least externally, there appears to be absolutely no justification whatsoever to sack a coach who has inherited a list in the state ours was.

Is he a screamer and shouter? Is he a poor communicator?

It surely can't be his win/loss record. He nearly got us into the 8 in 2012 when everyone expected us to slide dramatically. In 2013 the predicted slide occurred, compounded by injuries and bad luck (we were robbed against Port and the Eagles: win those two and our "development year" doesn't look quite as bad). I can only think of about 4 games where we weren't at least competitive, but don't quote me on that.

I must admit, I have heard some negative (unparticularised) things from a source close to the Subiaco players he coached, but I hadn't thought anything of it as I assumed that it emanated from players who had been dropped or somehow were disgruntled, as happens at any club.

Can anybody in the know give me some bullet points on his deficiencies please? IMO, they would have to be pretty substantial to consider sacking him and bringing universal condemnation upon the club from the press and other football watchers: "Here we go, St Kilda imploding again!"

[Con Gorozidis]

Hi Ned
I am also awaiting some actual info.
So far the only thing that seems relevant to his job is the game plan is confusing.
All the rest seems not related to his competence at all and is mainly around him having to put out spot fires created by the players off field - really not a matter for the senior coach.

Can you shed any light on the Subiaco things? Cant have been that bad winning two flags and being hired by the Pies? Surely the Pies did their due diligence and our selection process was the most rigorous in AFL history.

Until shown otherwise - I am leaning heavily toward the 'disgruntled senior player/s with bruised ego' theory behind the white anting.

Its hard for the senior guys to accept they arent the big dogs on the AFL scene anymore - so the coach is the obvious person for them to blame.

[plugger66]

Hi Ned
I am also awaiting some actual info.
So far the only thing that seems relevant to his job is the game plan is confusing.
All the rest seems not related to his competence at all and is mainly around him having to put out spot fires created by the players off field - really not a matter for the senior coach.

Can you shed any light on the Subiaco things? Cant have been that bad winning two flags and being hired by the Pies? Surely the Pies did their due diligence and our selection process was the most rigorous in AFL history.

Until shown otherwise - I am leaning heavily toward the 'disgruntled senior player/s with bruised ego' theory behind the white anting.

Its hard for the senior guys to accept they arent the big dogs on the AFL scene anymore - so the coach is the obvious person for them to blame.

We must some pretty ordinary senior players then because i dont remember it hapening with other clubs on the downward slide. And people thought Rooy, Lenny, Joey and chips were good blokes.

[busso mick]

Well lets face it, he has stumpy legs and played for both Sydney ahd Freo.

Three wrong things for a start

+ West Coast, so that makes it four

[Con Gorozidis]

Hi Ned
I am also awaiting some actual info.
So far the only thing that seems relevant to his job is the game plan is confusing.
All the rest seems not related to his competence at all and is mainly around him having to put out spot fires created by the players off field - really not a matter for the senior coach.

Can you shed any light on the Subiaco things? Cant have been that bad winning two flags and being hired by the Pies? Surely the Pies did their due diligence and our selection process was the most rigorous in AFL history.

Until shown otherwise - I am leaning heavily toward the 'disgruntled senior player/s with bruised ego' theory behind the white anting.

Its hard for the senior guys to accept they arent the big dogs on the AFL scene anymore - so the coach is the obvious person for them to blame.

We must some pretty ordinary senior players then because i dont remember it happening with other clubs on the downward slide. And people thought Rooy, Lenny, Joey and chips were good blokes.

Ok so whats the issue? And i reckon most of them are on board with the new development focus.
I think it would be a very small minority doing the sooking about the lack of love and 'respect'. Doesnt mean anyone is a bad bloke - just that tey are human and there is an inevitable adjustment phase for the new reality. Nothing wrong with that.

Len-dog probably enjoys his mentor role and it doesnt mean they are bad blokes. And Ill bet it does happen at all clubs on the downward slide. Just because you 'dont remember it' doesnt mean it doesnt happen it just means you can remember it or didnt know to remember.

Sheesh - you dont have to look too far to see the Pies and Cats just punt some pretty big stars so clearly it isnt all roses. Any side that falls from top dog to bottom in 3 years is going to have its fair share of finger pointers.

I dont think its a big deal. Whats important is how its managed from here on.

[plugger66]

Hi Ned
I am also awaiting some actual info.
So far the only thing that seems relevant to his job is the game plan is confusing.
All the rest seems not related to his competence at all and is mainly around him having to put out spot fires created by the players off field - really not a matter for the senior coach.

Can you shed any light on the Subiaco things? Cant have been that bad winning two flags and being hired by the Pies? Surely the Pies did their due diligence and our selection process was the most rigorous in AFL history.

Until shown otherwise - I am leaning heavily toward the 'disgruntled senior player/s with bruised ego' theory behind the white anting.

Its hard for the senior guys to accept they arent the big dogs on the AFL scene anymore - so the coach is the obvious person for them to blame.

We must some pretty ordinary senior players then because i dont remember it happening with other clubs on the downward slide. And people thought Rooy, Lenny, Joey and chips were good blokes.

Ok so whats the issue? And i reckon most of them are on board with the new development focus.
I think it would be a very small minority doing the sooking about the lack of love and 'respect'.
Len-dog probably enjoys his mentor role and it doesnt mean they are bad blokes. And Ill bet it does happen at all clubs on the downward slide. Just because you 'dont remember it' doesnt mean it doesnt happen it just means you can remember it or didnt know to remember.

Sheesh - you dont have to look too far to see the Pies and Cats just punt some pretty big stars so clearly it isnt all roses. Ny side that falls from top dog to bottom in 3 years is going to have its fair share of finger pointers. I dont think its a big deal. Whats important is how its managed from here on.

Sorry but i must have missed where the senior players were responsible for the issues between pelchin and SW and also must have missed where the players booted from geelong said there were any issues. players are allowed to be delisted you know with out issues. Im pretty sure i havent heard anything from Milne, kosi and blake. The main issue is the players dont seem to be included in the game plan which they have been previously and also the game plan tends to alter weekly and players cant get a handle on it and like any person who wants to win they get pissed off at the constant alteration of plans as it makes the player and the team look very ordinary.

[Con Gorozidis]

There you go
See wasn't that hard was it.
You actually gave a decent adult response plugger.
Well done.
You should do it more often.
(Id argue its easier on the ego to blame the coach and the game plan rather than admitting you just aint good enough anymore)

Is our game plan radically different to anyone elses?

[plugger66]

There you go
See wasn't that hard was it.
You actually gave a decent adult response plugger.
Well done.
You should do it more often.
(Id argue its easier on the ego to blame the coach and the game plan rather than admitting you just aint good enough anymore)

Is our game plan radically different to anyone elses?

You have just decided only older players are thinking what i said. Im unsure that is the case at all. As for the game plan being different i dont know enough about footy to say that. you need to see all the above ground vision and things that we dont have access to to know that. dont let others on here say they know our exact game plan because if they do they must be amazing people considering it takes players months to learn and they do it full time. As for my response I would suggest you dont mention adult responses after the crap you wrote the other day on a couple of players and doing weights.

[Con Gorozidis]

You have just decided only older players are thinking what i said. Im unsure that is the case at all. As for the game plan being different i dont know enough about footy to say that. you need to see all the above ground vision and things that we dont have access to to know that. dont let others on here say they know our exact game plan because if they do they must be amazing people considering it takes players months to learn and they do it full time. As for my response I would suggest you dont mention adult responses after the crap you wrote the other day on a couple of players and doing weights.

Go nuts!

[starsign]

On a lighter note...
read this comment earlier, very good, but couldn't help the appendix

If there has to be a scapegoat - hopefully its Laidley

Watters he done Laidley?

We're not sure, but aren't taking it for any Longer!
(sorry)

[The OtherThommo]

There you go
See wasn't that hard was it.
You actually gave a decent adult response plugger.
Well done.
You should do it more often.
(Id argue its easier on the ego to blame the coach and the game plan rather than admitting you just aint good enough anymore)

Is our game plan radically different to anyone elses?

You have just decided only older players are thinking what i said. Im unsure that is the case at all. As for the game plan being different i dont know enough about footy to say that. you need to see all the above ground vision and things that we dont have access to to know that. dont let others on here say they know our exact game plan because if they do they must be amazing people considering it takes players months to learn and they do it full time. As for my response I would suggest you dont mention adult responses after the crap you wrote the other day on a couple of players and doing weights.

You're all over the joint like a mad woman's breakfast. In 1 post you name 4 senior players and allude to them being miffed, or some such. Next post you definitively state "The main issue IS"...let me repeat that, "IS", and go on to talk about the game plan and how people are "pissed off".

Next up you hint at more than older players being similarly minded, then say you don't even know if the game plan is different.

If that "IS" the "main issue", it's awfully skinny. You are also suggesting older players, may be some not so older players, can't get their heads around the myriad reasons why we slid. So, the game plan is the cure all, eh? That's what the players think, is it? Cattle got nuttin' to do with it, injuries, form, playing list, young blokes playing before they're ready - nuttin' else, just the game plan.

You must have a pretty low opinion of those players if you reckon they have decided that's the problem, and that's why they're upset.

It's a very good example of why I don't buy the line being peddled - it's got no plausible substance.