Core '97 vs Core '10

[hungry for a premiership]

The decision should be based on 4 one-on-one battles:

Here are my conclusions:

1.) CHF: Loewe vs Riewoldt - As discussed in another thread, Loewe is the better true CHF while Roo is the better all-round player. Points shared here for me.

'97 - 1/2 a point.
'11 - 1/2 a point.

2.) CENTER: Harvs vs Lendog - Lendog is an out-and-out champ but Harvs is one of the best centerman in the history of the game. No disgrace in being second to him.

'97 - 1.5 points
'11 - 0.5 points

3.) ROVER: Burke vs Monty - Monty is a fantastic player with skill and pace, but Burke was capable of single-handedly dragging us across the line to victory.

'97 - 2.5 points
'11 - 0.5 points

4.) WING: Winmar vs NDS - Nicky was capable of flashes of true brilliance but NDS is just as skillful while being harder at the ball and more consistent.

Final Result:

'97 - 2.5 points
'11 - 1.5 points

Having said that, the '09/'10/'11 team is better than the '97 team overall IMO, because as well as those four guns we had another couple of champs (Fish, Milne), and a more even spread throughout. But the '97 core group virtually single handedly got us into the GF, they where responsible for us winning game after game after game, whereas the '10 core group had a lot more help along the way with a bunch of other high draft pick players that the '97 team was lacking.

Please respond by voting and post your results for the one-on-one battles, or whatever other reasoning you used.

[Siposstar#2]

Bit stiff on Goddard have him in before Joey, also stiff on Aussie jones

[mad saint guy]

I'd say the likes of Goddard, McEvoy, Fisher and Milne are very much in the current core. Just as Everitt, Thompson etc were back then. Unless by 'core' you mean starting midfield.

[Con Gorozidis]

I'm a massive fan of nds. But to say nicky was just prone to flashes of brilliance is a huge injustice. Ok he did some brilliant things. But I remember nicky for his work ethic. One of the best tacklers I have ever seen. Simply impassable. Much harder than nds. I'd say line ball on these 2. Maybe nicky just ahead because he kicked more goals and had more goal assists.

[fugazi]

For mine, Goddard and Fisher are ahead of Monty

Also 97 include Hall and Everitt - they were elite players

[Old Mate]

For mine, Goddard and Fisher are ahead of Monty

Also 97 include Hall and Everitt - they were elite players

Agree with Goddard and Fisher and Everitt however I wouldn't have called Hall elite in 97. He played a good cameo in the 97 GF though.

It's a good debate because our teams are quite similar in the fact that for both eras we have had a really strong half a dozen players, solid contributors and a weak bottom six or so.

Comparing each position it's extremely close:

Roo > Loewe

Harvey > Hayes

Dal Santo > Winmar

Burke > Monty

But if you look at other players such as Goddard, Milne and Fisher from our current line up I think they are ahead of blokes like Everitt, Peckett and Thompson. Hudghton, Hall and Aussie Jones were up and comers at that stage. Aussie won AA selection that year however wasn't at the level of the current players mentioned.

[ROLS-LEE]

You can not compare NDS with the Winmar as both are 2 completely different players in different positions.

NDS Back flank/ centre
Winmar. Forward flank / Wing

NDS generally plays behind the ball, Winmar more forward.
Both are average defencively while NDS is probably better as a centreman, but Winmar better as a forward. Winmar would also slot more crucial goals than NDS.

[Old Mate]

You can not compare NDS with the Winmar as both are 2 completely different players in different positions.

NDS Back flank/ centre
Winmar. Forward flank / Wing

NDS generally plays behind the ball, Winmar more forward.
Both are average defencively while NDS is probably better as a centreman, but Winmar better as a forward. Winmar would also slot more crucial goals than NDS.

For the purpose of comparing these teams Dal vs Cuz seems the most obvious comparison. For the majority of their careers both seen as silky skilled outside midfielders.

[Con Gorozidis]

You can not compare NDS with the Winmar as both are 2 completely different players in different positions.

NDS Back flank/ centre
Winmar. Forward flank / Wing

NDS generally plays behind the ball, Winmar more forward.
Both are average defencively while NDS is probably better as a centreman, but Winmar better as a forward. Winmar would also slot more crucial goals than NDS.

average defensively!
there seems to be some perception winmar was a flashy player. he was a tackling machine!

and BJ is a better footballer than Burke at all aspects of the game.

[Con Gorozidis]

For mine, Goddard and Fisher are ahead of Monty

Also 97 include Hall and Everitt - they were elite players

+ 1

[Old Mate]

You can not compare NDS with the Winmar as both are 2 completely different players in different positions.

NDS Back flank/ centre
Winmar. Forward flank / Wing

NDS generally plays behind the ball, Winmar more forward.
Both are average defencively while NDS is probably better as a centreman, but Winmar better as a forward. Winmar would also slot more crucial goals than NDS.

average defensively!
there seems to be some perception winmar was a flashy player. he was a tackling machine!

and BJ is a better footballer than Burke at all aspects of the game.

Goddard definitely has more to his game but Burke got more out of himself. Burke was a consistent performer who had many a great year. I'd say Goddard has had 2 great years. Goddard certainly has the potential to overtake Burke over the next 5 or so years though.

[Con Gorozidis]

You can not compare NDS with the Winmar as both are 2 completely different players in different positions.

NDS Back flank/ centre
Winmar. Forward flank / Wing

NDS generally plays behind the ball, Winmar more forward.
Both are average defencively while NDS is probably better as a centreman, but Winmar better as a forward. Winmar would also slot more crucial goals than NDS.

average defensively!
there seems to be some perception winmar was a flashy player. he was a tackling machine!

and BJ is a better footballer than Burke at all aspects of the game.

Goddard definitely has more to his game but Burke got more out of himself. Burke was a consistent performer who had many a great year. I'd say Goddard has had 2 great years. Goddard certainly has the potential to overtake Burke over the next 5 or so years though.

yeah but no matter how good burke was he let himself down by kicking to the opposition all the time. hed be thankful they didnt have disposal efficiency % back then.

[terry smith rules]

For mine, Goddard and Fisher are ahead of Monty

Also 97 include Hall and Everitt - they were elite players

+ 1

sorry there is no way that hall was an elite player in 97, if he had two more years under him maybe

he was a young promising player

[IluvHarvey]

For mine, Goddard and Fisher are ahead of Monty

Also 97 include Hall and Everitt - they were elite players

+ 1

sorry there is no way that hall was an elite player in 97, if he had two more years under him maybe

he was a young promising player

my thoughts exactly

[Con Gorozidis]

i was +1ing the goddard and fisher ahead of monty bit.

agree spider and hall werent elite in 97.

[SinCitySainter]

It is not enough to look at the individual players to compare the teams.
You need to look at each part of the team as a unit and compare those.
Even that is difficult because of the changes to the way the game is played. In 97 it was a very traditional backs, mids and forwards structure with each area having a very defined role to play. Forwards were there to kick goals not to stop the opposition from rebounding or to push back up the ground to over load the midfield. A midfielders job was to win the ball when it was in dispute and to move it from defence to attack and a backmans job was to stop his opponent scoring. Now we have a structure that generally consists of a spine of Key Position players with a couple of fixed position players e.g. Milne as a permanent forward pocket or role players, taggers etc... But all other players are basically utility players who rotate through forward, back, midfield and bench.
So to that end:

Defensive unit:

97 Lead by Jamie Shanahan and Daryl Wakelin but also included Justin Peckett, Maxy, Jason Cripps and Steven Sziller switching with Nathan Burke. No real stars except Burke, Max was not yet a star, but some very talented and servicable players. Jamie Shanahan was a great full back who was much maligned because of his performance in this game but nobody could have stopped Jarmen. Jamie Cripps could have been anything but injuries cruelled him completely and we never got to see what we he was capable of. Peckett, Wakelin and Sziller were all good honest workers, perhaps I am being a little unkind to Peckett as over his career he was a fantastic player for us.

09-10 Lead by Sam Fisher ably assisted by Zac, Gilbert, Dempster, Baker and a rotation of midfielders. Fisher is the only real star in the back line permanently but could at different times have Dal Santo, Goddard or Monty there with him. Defence in the modern game though starts at the Full Forward and works backwards every player must help out the defence.

Result: 09-10 we had possibly one of the best defences of all time breaking all kinds of points against records. In 09 noone was ready for our 22 man defence but now everybody is doing it. 09-10 defence wins this one over 97 hands down.

Mids: 97 it was a star studded midfield line up Harvey, Winmar, Burke, Jones, Thompson, Everitt (unfortunately missed the GF as did big Laz had one of them played the result could have been different) and Jayson Daniels. All except the wayward red head were true stars of the game and this was on of the real strengths of the 97 side.

09-10 we still had some stars rotating through the middle Goddard, Dal Santo, Monty and Lenny with a number of lesser lights making up the midfield.

Result: A points decision in favour of the 97 side.

Forwards: The 97 side was all about firepower. Stewart Loewe, Jason Heatley, Barry Hall, Rod Keogh, Matthew Lappin and Nicky Winmar. Loewe is still to this day the best contested mark I have ever seen, Heatley probably the most accurate kick for goal we have seen for many a year and the others could all produce moments of genius.

09-10 The forward line was lead by Riewoldt and Milne with support from Schneider and Kosi. We would also play with a defensive forward, usually McQualter and generally only a five man forward line.

Result: The forwards of 97 had it all over the forwards of 09-10.

Summary: Which side was better? On talent alone probably 97 but the 09 game plan was the other big weapon we had in our corner. Who would win between the two sides? I don't know but what I do know is this. We should have won it all in both 1997 and 2009. We didn't in 97 because of Darren Jarmen being basically unstoppable and Shane Ellen hitting career best form just when it counted. We didn't in 2009 because we kicked poorly for goal in the second quarter, had we kicked straight we would have been 6 or seven goals up at half time and it would have been all over. We were the best side in 97 and in 09 yet could not bring home the bacon.

Oh the life of the St Kilda supporter.

[Scollop]

Great read, thanks for posting.

[Con Gorozidis]

Great read. When all is said and done if just one of the ruckman played in 97 we would have won by 5 goals. Maybe more is the crows gave it up in the last.
Sheesh being a saint is hard. You got that right. 97 was one heck of a team.
Only our incredible world best defence in 09 and 10 got us close.

[Saintersss]

People are underestimating how good our 09' team really was. It took one of the great sides in history to 'just' topple it.

Rounds 1 - 19 the Saints were unstoppable.

[mr six o'clock]

Line ball , great players from different eras that saddly for all of us have both won nothing .