Recycled Players

[NoMore]

OK i would love everyones opinion of our recruiting of recycled payers taken under RL. We have had most of them for a while now and i am going to count players we have delisted and then relisted or players we have re rookied

Pass
Ray
Schnieder
Dawson
M. Gardner
King (gets a pass on our desperate need for a ruckmen when he got there)

Fail
C. Gardner
McQualter
Eddy
Geary
Peake (probably the most border line of these)

Undeicided but not looking good
Gamble
Polo

Have no idea why we pciked these 2. You can say we got them cheap but i know 18 year olds that play VFL this year that would have been a better pick. Young kid at casey by the name of Mitch Gent who i think prob would have made it as a quickish well skilled midfielder but not given a chance

[Dr Spaceman]

OK i would love everyones opinion of our recruiting of recycled payers taken under RL. We have had most of them for a while now and i am going to count players we have delisted and then relisted or players we have re rookied

Pass
Ray
Schnieder
Dawson
M. Gardner
King (gets a pass on our desperate need for a ruckmen when he got there)

Fail
C. Gardner
McQualter
Eddy
Geary
Peake (probably the most border line of these)

Undeicided but not looking good
Gamble
Polo

Have no idea why we pciked these 2. You can say we got them cheap but i know 18 year olds that play VFL this year that would have been a better pick. Young kid at casey by the name of Mitch Gent who i think prob would have made it as a quickish well skilled midfielder but not given a chance

McQualter & Eddy are technically recycled - from ourselves.

But why is Geary on the list? He was picked up in the Rookie Draft and later elevated to the Senior List where he remains

[NoMore]

Sorry about Geary then i thought he was the same as McQ and Eddy

They are included coz we got rid of them once and for some reason they are still here.

[bergsone]

Cut Gamble a bit of slack on only 1 game,but yes expect more

Ray is a player who IMO just hasnt stepped up enough,looks alright but never seems to be in my best players each week

[NoMore]

I agree with u on ray

i can't remember what he cost us but has now been with us for a while and am starting to wonder if we had used what cost us to take a decent young pplayer would we be in better shape now

i know these are hypotheticals but my opinion is u trade for guns but u look after the club by going to the draft

[Dr Spaceman]

Cut Gamble a bit of slack on only 1 game,but yes expect more

On that basis we should also cut Polo some slack coz he's played none

[NoMore]

I did say undecided on both of these

But from what we have seen for us and what they showed for there previous clubs it is hard to see what was seen in either of them

[bergsone]

Cut Gamble a bit of slack on only 1 game,but yes expect more

On that basis we should also cut Polo some slack coz he's played none

Yes hard to bag a guy who hasnt played a game yet,pressure will be on when and if he does get a run

[Spinner]

I agree with u on ray

i can't remember what he cost us but has now been with us for a while and am starting to wonder if we had used what cost us to take a decent young pplayer would we be in better shape now

i know these are hypotheticals but my opinion is u trade for guns but u look after the club by going to the draft

Thats the thing... That pick 32 for Ray would be having an impact today... Pity picks 13 (Lynch) 48 (Heyne) and 49 (Who we got in the Ray trade ' Stanley) havnt made an impact at all.

Its like the Lovett trade pick 16.. (Pittard) Did he play his first game on the weekend?


Lets get something straight - 95% of all the picks (especially picks like '30' for Luke Ball would be having next to nothing impact right now.

It cheeses me off flippant responses like this.......

[Life Long Saint]

I think you've missed some...

Dempster (came with Schneider)
Jess Smith
Fraser Gehrig
Colm Begley
Brad Howard
Andrew Lovett

And on the Farren Ray trade...we also got Nick Heyne with the Bulldog's pick...so you should also include him in your analysis.


On Gamble & Polo...There were no other new players picked by any club after Gamble and Polo...All other clubs used these picks late in the draft to promote their rookies whilst other clubs (Gold Coast, Richmond and Fremantle) had already passed. What does that tell you about the quality of the players left?

Most clubs by that stage of the draft would rather place a young kid on the rookie list as it is seriously doubtful they will make it. While they're being developed you don't have to pay them much until they actually play. It's a smart move, really.

[degruch]

I think you've missed some...

Milne. I reckon he's a pass. Gram, not bad either.

[plugger66]

I think you've missed some...

Dempster (came with Schneider)
Jess Smith
Fraser Gehrig
Colm Begley
Brad Howard
Andrew Lovett

And on the Farren Ray trade...we also got Nick Heyne with the Bulldog's pick...so you should also include him in your analysis.


On Gamble & Polo...There were no other new players picked by any club after Gamble and Polo...All other clubs used these picks late in the draft to promote their rookies whilst other clubs (Gold Coast, Richmond and Fremantle) had already passed. What does that tell you about the quality of the players left?

Most clubs by that stage of the draft would rather place a young kid on the rookie list as it is seriously doubtful they will make it. While they're being developed you don't have to pay them much until they actually play. It's a smart move, really.

]


We need to win the flag this year or next. A young kid isnt going to do that. We took the punt 4 years a go to draft more senior players because the window was open at that time. In retrospect maybe we should not have but you could also argued it was one point off working. Once we took that punt there was no turning back.

Make no mistake once our window closes we will fall very quickly but after one flag in 114 years the punt was probably worth it.

[Life Long Saint]

I think you've missed some...

Milne. I reckon he's a pass. Gram, not bad either.

The OP placed the qualifier of "taken under Ross Lyon"...so Milne and Gram don't qualify...Nor would have Hamill, Voss, Black, Fiora, Brooks...the list goes on.

[degruch]

I think you've missed some...

Milne. I reckon he's a pass. Gram, not bad either.

The OP placed the qualifier of "taken under Ross Lyon"...so Milne and Gram don't qualify...Nor would have Hamill, Voss, Black, Fiora, Brooks...the list goes on.

OK, cheers...we don't want to start up the inevitible arguement again. But, I've got nothing but support for furnishing our team with retreads...as p66 pointed out, they're more likely to produce instant results than a project.

It's a shame kids like Attard, Allen, Tungarumbelumbelum, etc. didn't come on, as they may have made us less reliant on recruiting action-ready players.

[saintsRrising]

I agree with u on ray

i can't remember what he cost us but has now been with us for a while and am starting to wonder if we had used what cost us to take a decent young pplayer would we be in better shape now

i know these are hypotheticals but my opinion is u trade for guns but u look after the club by going to the draft

From memory with Ray we actually got a young player as well as we swapped a pick for Ray plus a later. = Heyne).

That pick may have also aloowed them to speculate on Stanley as Stanley was taken with Heyne in consecutive picks.
So that trade would seem good value to me.

[saintsRrising]

I think you've missed some...

Dempster (came with Schneider)
Jess Smith
Fraser Gehrig
Colm Begley
Brad Howard
Andrew Lovett

.

Howard was a straight pick..nota retread. Pick 27 from memory.

[saintsRrising]

Overall our retreads, if you want to call them at have by and large returned good, if not very good value, relative to the cost.


The big waste was the first round pick for Lovett....which holds the trusim to not trade your first round pick.


What has been the problem IMO is not thhe retreads...but rather that our picks of the kids have not been as good as they could have been (apologies to this years crop which looks to be pretty fair value relative to where taken.

One could make a good case that he we had not gone down the recycled player path as much as we have that we would be in even worse shape.


It also should be remembered that the recycled path put us within a bee's-dick of two Grand Final wins ina row.

[RW&B]

I agree with u on ray

i can't remember what he cost us but has now been with us for a while and am starting to wonder if we had used what cost us to take a decent young pplayer would we be in better shape now

From memory with Ray we actually got a young player as well as we swapped a pick for Ray plus a later. = Heyne).

That pick may have also aloowed them to speculate on Stanley as Stanley was taken with Heyne in consecutive picks.
So that trade would seem good value to me.

We got Ray and pick 48 (used on Heyne) for a pick in the low 30s after which Ross said he wanted Heyne with that low 30s pck anyway which means Ray cost us absolutely zero.

[Dr Spaceman]

But for a bit of luck Ray, Schneider, Dawson, M. Gardiner, King, McQualter, Eddy & Peake would have been St Kilda Premiership players, and in some cases, perhaps dual St Kilda Premiership players.

Doubt there’d be too many knockers then!

[gringo]

I actually think out of our list of retreads we have some beauties. Farren is a GOP to VGOP. that is better than the likely result of a guy taken in the mid 30s and he would still be finding their feet at Sandy.

There was an interesting Age article by Garry lyon about Sydney v Melbourne in recruiting. It kind of made the point that there are two ways to go and when one works everyone copies. Remember the real breakthrough the Pies made were in recruiting Jolly, Ball and L Brown. They looked a heap better straight off the bat not in the 4 years it would have taken to develop them. Might just be the model everyone copies if The GC doesn't hit it's straps in a couple of years.

The Pies now have Kraquer(can't spell it still) our f$#@ up in Lovett stopped us being able to have a go at him, so careful what you wish for.

[Life Long Saint]

I think you've missed some...

Dempster (came with Schneider)
Jess Smith
Fraser Gehrig
Colm Begley
Brad Howard
Andrew Lovett

.

Howard was a straight pick..nota retread. Pick 27 from memory.

Wasn't he de-listed and redrafted?

[NoMore]

ok so seem we need to do some tidying up

I was specifically looking at players taken under Ross Lyon

i would classify dempster as a fail

Gram and Gehrig were icked up under GT both are big passes

Smith = Fail
Lovett need i say more
Howard it would be totally unfair coz not sure when he was drafted but since R. Clarkes draft i would think McEnvoy would be the only play to recieve a pass mark.

So maybe this argument is not about recycled players but more about our recruiting under RL

[Life Long Saint]

Gram and Gehrig were icked up under GT both are big passes

Gehrig retired and was re-drafted and failed on the second time.

[NoMore]

Gram and Gehrig were icked up under GT both are big passes

Gehrig retired and was re-drafted and failed on the second time.

I did not remember that
But thanks for clearing that up

[borderbarry]

I think you will find that Steven King was picked up just before Lyon was appointed coach. But over all, apart from King and Gardiner (everyone has forgotten Patterson), the idea of picking up players from other clubs has been overdone and we have picked up too few youngsters before this year.