Why Saints are in a Pickle

[st.byron]

From the AFL website :

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-08-09/ ... -to-splash

“ST KILDA needs to get creative.

And it involves trading out players with currency and flipping draft picks to even entertain achieving this year's wish list.”

[BackFromUSA]

5 for 12 and 14 from GWS would get us Hill and Jones but we would have nothing to give for Ben King.

However if Gold Coast won’t deal with us then that is certainly an option.

With ruck free agents:
Goldstein
Jacobs
Kruiser

We don’t need to trade for an experienced quality ruckman to partner / back up Marshall.

[SaintPav]

5 for 12 and 14 from GWS would get us Hill and Jones but we would have nothing to give for Ben King.

However if Gold Coast won’t deal with us then that is certainly an option.

With ruck free agents:
Goldstein
Jacobs
Kruiser

We don’t need to trade for an experienced quality ruckman to partner / back up Marshall.

Agree on the last point.

What about offering our 2020 first round pick for Ben King? GC may not go for that though.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Tomlinson is free as he is a FA. Ready made and good to go. Could play FB and CHB.

We could easily split our pick 5 into 2 or 3 picks which would help us acquire Jones and Hill. Both are around 25-26 years old which is perfect and both are very quick. Hill has better skills but both are good senior footballers.

In terms of ruckman, I don't think the Saints are in a bind. We could find a backup somewhere, even through the draft or a delisted player if need be. I suspect we will draft a mature state player to fill 1 one of the 3 ruck spots though.

If Steven leaves, then a Constable straight swap would be perfect or a pick in the 20's.

Whilst B King would be great to get now, we may not have the picks unless GC would take next years first. He will come back at some stage anyway. The kid is 19 like his bro.

This could be a massive trade period for the Saints that will revolutionise the side possibly if it all comes off.

[Ghost Like]

Agree on Tomlinson Ted. Will be huge value as can play anywhere he's asked.

I think we can snag a Ryder or Jacobs for bugger all plus pick up a kid or State League ruck.

Steven to Geelong should give us the pick for Hill.

Splitting pick 5 for two first rounders may give us enough for two of King, Jones and Constable.

King = Pick #13(?) plus player (Webster / McKenzie)
Jones = Pick #15(?) plus future 3rd.
Constable & Geelong's 2019 3rd rounder = Pick #15(?)

Looks like a fun trade period & looking forward to Gubby earning his money.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Yes, all possible. The Gubbster will be working his magic no doubt! Apparently he has strong links to Tomlinson.

[SaintPav]

Shut up and take my money!

[The_President]

Don't like the article. Kind of makes us sound desperate.


I feel like we're in a decent position tbh.

[takeaway]

Don't like the article. Kind of makes us sound desperate.


I feel like we're in a decent position tbh.

I got the same impression. I think the list is going the right way.

Already have new recruits next year - Bytel & King. Chance of McCartin & Roberton coming back as well.

I hope we don't try to be too creative and put our draft position excessively in debt for future years. It appears there is very good talent at top of draft and it would take a great deal imo to agree to part with pick 5 or 6 or whatever it is.

Hopefully get a FA or 2, ie Tomlinson.

Brad Hill would be good, maybe if Steven goes we could do something without using pick 5. I would much prefer a fit and keen Steven to Hill, but not looking likely now.
Zak Jones? No.

[saintsRrising]

While the Editor probably hyped up the negative aspects by and large the article is accurate.

The Saints are:
- Not in a good, let alone strong trading position
- We have few players that we can let go, that other club's would want. So that means little to be gained.
- We already do not have a second or third round selection

Steven looms as the main trade target. Hopefully we can get something reasonable for him. Kelly definitely wanted to head back West will help in in this.year,

Tomlinson looms as the only FA that we are likely to get this trade period. But lets be honest, he is an ok player, rather than a good player, let alone a star player. He is versatile which is good. I suspect the club may see him as a future FB to take over from Brown.

Hill looms as the only likely player of genuine class who may join us this trade period. He will require a first round pick. Freo would want our Pick 5/6. Remains to be seen if they would be agreeable to GWS pick instead. It would be an excellent outcome for the Saints if we do.

Hill also is perhaps rare amongst the better players who are potentially on the market as I think that he will be more driven by $$$ in that he already has three flags. Cogs by example will probably have the potential to win a flag looming large in his thoughts.

Where Cogs goes may well also determine of we land Hill or not.

Goldstein. With the rise of Marshall this move no longer makes sense to me as I believe it would just stagnate Marshall. I assume it was more driven early on before everyone saw how good Marshall is at the No1 role. So to me we just acquire a back up ruck and/or a cheap younger developing ruck (but no not a kid).

I think too the club needs to decide that this and next draft period should be about maximising our talent for a strong till in 2021+ If things go well in 2020 then great. But any new acquisitions to me now need to be about the future and no significant resources tied up in stop-gap players. This also means losing Steven if it will help us get Hill.


If we could enter 2020 with say Hill, Tomlinson, a late first and either a player like Constable or another second rounder, plus an ok back up ruck who is not guranteed a first 22 spot (as Goldstein would say want) then we will probably have gone as good we reasonably hope to have gone.

We also could potentially swap next year's first rounder, but if we do then I hope that it would be for a decent player.

[saynta]

Don't like the article. Kind of makes us sound desperate.


I feel like we're in a decent position tbh.

I got the same impression. I think the list is going the right way.

Already have new recruits next year - Bytel & King. Chance of McCartin & Roberton coming back as well.

I hope we don't try to be too creative and put our draft position excessively in debt for future years. It appears there is very good talent at top of draft and it would take a great deal imo to agree to part with pick 5 or 6 or whatever it is.

Hopefully get a FA or 2, ie Tomlinson.

Brad Hill would be good, maybe if Steven goes we could do something without using pick 5. I would much prefer a fit and keen Steven to Hill, but not looking likely now.
Zak Jones? No.

Great comments and I agree with all of them too.

[saintsRrising]

Chance of McCartin & Roberton coming back as well.

McCartin - I would find it hard to believe that a player who has been out as long as he has been with the severe symptoms that he has been reported to have had is ever going to play again. And if he did, his history would suggest that he will just suffer concussion again.

Robbo - I think is more chance of Robbo returning as his health problem seems to be a random one, and one if it happens again is covered by his pacemaker. In the pre-season his pacemaker went off. From what I have heard apart from him feeling a kick in the chest at the time it did not cause any other issues then or later.

If so then there is probably a huge discussion going on about "risk" and whether the club can actually let him play again. Is his problem now considered to be life threatening , or just a problem that if it re-occurs just means that he would have to stop playing in that game. If the former then clearance to play would seem unlikely. If the latter then there is a matter of understanding whether it is an acceptable matter or not.

[takeaway]

Chance of McCartin & Roberton coming back as well.

McCartin - I would find it hard to believe that a player who has been out as long as he has been with the severe symptoms that he has been reported to have had is ever going to play again. And if he did, his history would suggest that he will just suffer concussion again.

Robbo - I think is more chance of Robbo returning as his health problem seems to be a random one, and one if it happens again is covered by his pacemaker. In the pre-season his pacemaker went off. From what I have heard apart from him feeling a kick in the chest at the time it did not cause any other issues then or later.

If so then there is probably a huge discussion going on about "risk" and whether the club can actually let him play again. Is his problem now considered to be life threatening , or just a problem that if it re-occurs just means that he would have to stop playing in that game. If the former then clearance to play would seem unlikely. If the latter then there is a matter of understanding whether it is an acceptable matter or not.

Fair enough. Still a chance though. Roberton does appear more likely.

[SaintPav]

Don't like the article. Kind of makes us sound desperate.

We are!

[spert]

We need to build a team to win finals, so whatever it takes.

[asiu]

lethlean i heard say / let slip
(in one of the interviews)
that 2 would not be on the list next year

i figured then , he could only say such a thing
if it was concussion/health related

paddy would have to be one of those two
ya’d think

[saintsRrising]

lethlean i heard say / let slip
(in one of the interviews)
that 2 would not be on the list next year

i figured then , he could only say such a thing
if it was concussion/health related

paddy would have to be one of those two
ya’d think

Well we currently have 3 players out with continual concussion and Robbo.

Paddy of the concussion group would seem to be the worst affected.

[Viscount Jeremiah]

Good chance Lewy and Longer would have been de-listed anyway even if they didn't have concussion

[saynta]

Longer yes, Lew, maybe.

[saintsRrising]

Good chance Lewy and Longer would have been de-listed anyway even if they didn't have concussion

Lewy may have been kept as the back up ruck.

[To the top]

I am one who thinks we are heading in the right direction - needing some cream on the substance

That cream is identified as a line breaking, goal scoring mid and ruck support for Marshall

Plus a full back - but we have Claravino and Austin on the List remember

Then we have King and Bytel

I do not comment on Roberton and McCartin because I have no knowledge past fingers crossed for their futures at the Club

No doubt assessments will be attended by specialists plus their intent will be critical

All I would add is that, whilst they remain on the List they are required players

Not so Longer and Pierce

To me those under pressure should be those who are role players and as confirmation of that I point to the development of Clark and Coffield over recent weeks pushing aside the likes of McKenzie

The likes of Geary, Webster et al will not push these kids out of the team

Our “small forwards” include those recruited as mature aged players from State Leagues including because of the age demographics of our List, so they also (and Kent) are interim selections ahead of others being added to our List

I contributed to another thread saying the side I hoped would evolve as this season worked out has basically been delivered this weekend apart from 5 players on our injured List and a replacement full back noting the options already on our List

I am aware that Austin was highly regarded at Port Adelaide subject to putting on some condition - they did not want to lose him but opportunity beckoned so they reluctantly agreed

I don’t think headline seeking journalists looking for their daily headline are educated to the analytics of the List

They probably get their subject matter from sites such as this

[Yorkeys]

Was Mr Pelchen the actual author of the article. The proposition that you trade good players out for an uncertain result or just for trades sake seems to be from his play book. And there is nothing in the article to support the underlying assumption about our list. For one thing its only recently that they have had a good coach. Simple focussed recruiting will do the job, not all the splitting the atom and then hope speculation that journos go on with. They are journos because they can't actually do a job in any footy department. Who could seriously listen to their advice. Isn't Robbo a towering intellect, not - and he is chief writer for the Herald!

[saynta]

Was Mr Pelchen the actual author of the article. The proposition that you trade good players out for an uncertain result or just for trades sake seems to be from his play book. And there is nothing in the article to support the underlying assumption about our list. For one thing its only recently that they have had a good coach. Simple focussed recruiting will do the job, not all the splitting the atom and then hope speculation that journos go on with. They are journos because they can't actually do a job in any footy department. Who could seriously listen to their advice. Isn't Robbo a towering intellect, not - and he is chief writer for the Herald!

Pure gold. Post of the year really.

[B.M]

I don’t rate Tomlinson that highly. One of those guys who can’t nail down a position because he has not been good enough to do so. I rate him just a bit higher than Acres, given he can pitch hit in a KP down back.

He players smaller than his size.

[bobmurray]

He players smaller than his size.

Can't he straighten his legs ?