Time To Take Concussion Seriously

[damienc]

For far too long now, the AFL and the clubs, including ours, have their collective heads buried in the sand when it comes to concussion.

Even some members of this forum regard it as a minor injury. He’ll be right in a day or so. Well it isn’t and he won’t.

Concussion is an extremely serious injury. It can cause long term cognitive loss among other major symptoms and problems.

It is a an important issue not just for our game but any contact sport.

To ignore it, or dismiss it or trivialise concussion, risks not only the health and welfare of the player but opens up a can of worms in terms of civil liability and its legal ramifications.

Right now, our club is facing a potential crisis in the form of Paddy McCartin. Eight concussions in five years speaks for itself.

If Paddy won’t make the call to retire immediately then the call must be made for him either by St Kilda, or the AFL.

To do anything less would be reckless and irresponsible.

We are playing with people’s lives here.

[saintspremiers]

For far too long now, the AFL and the clubs, including ours, have their collective heads buried in the sand when it comes to concussion.

Even some members of this forum regard it as a minor injury. He’ll be right in a day or so. Well it isn’t and he won’t.

Concussion is an extremely serious injury. It can cause long term cognitive loss among other major symptoms and problems.

It is a an important issue not just for our game but any contact sport.

To ignore it, or dismiss it or trivialise concussion, risks not only the health and welfare of the player but opens up a can of worms in terms of civil liability and its legal ramifications.

Right now, our club is facing a potential crisis in the form of Paddy McCartin. Eight concussions in five years speaks for itself.

If Paddy won’t make the call to retire immediately then the call must be made for him either by St Kilda, or the AFL.

To do anything less would be reckless and irresponsible.

We are playing with people’s lives here.

It probably all lies in litigation and potential future litigation.

Very messy.

[BackFromUSA]

I believe the player has received advice to retire. He has refused. Whilst I believe he cannot be cut from the list, I certainly hope the club does not select him to play at any level.

[Myron Gaines]

I believe the player has received advice to retire. He has refused. Whilst I believe he cannot be cut from the list, I certainly hope the club does not select him to play at any level.

Totally understandable. He is a young kid who is playing his boy hood dream & it has all been taken away from him. There will become a time where he gains acceptance. Not something that comes easily. I’m shattered for him to be honest.

[BackFromUSA]

I am told that he is shattered because football is his life and identity. He is seeking his own medical advice now to find a way forward.

[saintspremiers]

I am told that he is shattered because football is his life and identity. He is seeking his own medical advice now to find a way forward.

This is bloody awful as he seems a nice decent honest bloke.

Not his fault we made a massive error selecting him as number 1 pick and the associated pressure.

The only way forward from here I reckon is to offer him a non-recourse settlement and provide him with whatever support he needs to find a new career.

[Sainter_Dad]

The only way forward from here I reckon is to offer him a non-recourse settlement and provide him with whatever support he needs to find a new career.

As an AFL spokesperson/liaison for Diabetes in Sport and/or Concussion in Sport

[saintspremiers]

The only way forward from here I reckon is to offer him a non-recourse settlement and provide him with whatever support he needs to find a new career.

As an AFL spokesperson/liaison for Diabetes in Sport and/or Concussion in Sport

Nice idea!
It would possibly help him deal with what’s ahead of him in a constructive manner.

[Linton Lodger]

I am told that he is shattered because football is his life and identity. He is seeking his own medical advice now to find a way forward.

So he should seek a second opinion. The interesting thing will be if the second opinion conflicts with the first. I'm not suggesting this is the case with Paddy, but sometimes specialists get it wrong.

I would hope no stone is unturned in working out precisely what's going on with Paddy and that all preventitive measures have been explored.

Its good and well to say let's play it safe, that's what's best for Paddy. Unfortunately, the kid has busted a gut all his life to get to where he is and its his passion. Losing it because of something beyond his control would be devastating. A severe blow to his self esteem, the impact to his mental health will be great.

I'm hoping our doctors have got it wrong.

[damienc]

I am told that he is shattered because football is his life and identity. He is seeking his own medical advice now to find a way forward.

So he should seek a second opinion. The interesting thing will be if the second opinion conflicts with the first. I'm not suggesting this is the case with Paddy, but sometimes specialists get it wrong.

I would hope no stone is unturned in working out precisely what's going on with Paddy and that all preventitive measures have been explored.

Its good and well to say let's play it safe, that's what's best for Paddy. Unfortunately, the kid has busted a gut all his life to get to where he is and its his passion. Losing it because of something beyond his control would be devastating. A severe blow to his self esteem, the impact to his mental health will be great.

I'm hoping our doctors have got it wrong.

It is not possible to get 8 concussions wrong. Paddy can seek as many medical opinions as he likes, they are all going to tell him the same thing. He risks his health by continuing to play football. Quite frankly he should have been gone after concussion number 4 and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Of course, everyone feels for him. It is a dreadful situation to be in. But it is time the AFL had a protocol covering concussion using the best available medical advice. Four example four concussions and it's a mandatory retirement. We do not want a player to die or the AFL and a club to be sued for millions before they do what is right.

[Linton Lodger]

I am told that he is shattered because football is his life and identity. He is seeking his own medical advice now to find a way forward.

So he should seek a second opinion. The interesting thing will be if the second opinion conflicts with the first. I'm not suggesting this is the case with Paddy, but sometimes specialists get it wrong.

I would hope no stone is unturned in working out precisely what's going on with Paddy and that all preventitive measures have been explored.

Its good and well to say let's play it safe, that's what's best for Paddy. Unfortunately, the kid has busted a gut all his life to get to where he is and its his passion. Losing it because of something beyond his control would be devastating. A severe blow to his self esteem, the impact to his mental health will be great.

I'm hoping our doctors have got it wrong.

It is not possible to get 8 concussions wrong. Paddy can seek as many medical opinions as he likes, they are all going to tell him the same thing. He risks his health by continuing to play football. Quite frankly he should have been gone after concussion number 4 and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Of course, everyone feels for him. It is a dreadful situation to be in. But it is time the AFL had a protocol covering concussion using the best available medical advice. Four example four concussions and it's a mandatory retirement. We do not want a player to die or the AFL and a club to be sued for millions before they do what is right.

I don't think it is of any benefit to have a mandatory rule, such as 4 concussions and that's it. Angus Brayshaw would be finished under such a rule, Nathan Burke wouldn't have had his career.

I'm not suggesting that we should be taking risks either.

I saw a young man rendered intellectually disabled for 15 years of his life due to high dosages of anti-epiliptic medication. His facial twitches were diagnosed as ticks by a prominent Specialist (Neurosurgeon), he'd never had a seizure. Turns out the diagnosis was just wrong, the kid needed glasses! His IQ immediately rose from 65 (intellectually disabled) to 95 (basically normal). The Specialist and medicos had been overly concerned with legal liability and failed to ever consider alternatives.

I'm not saying this is the case with Paddy, I wouldn't know.

We don't know how the 8 diagnosises in Paddy's case were made. Brain scan or verbal concussion test?

We don't know if dietray requirements immediately prior to a game have been considered at an expert level?

Whoever Paddy sees for a second opinion may have more expertise and hopefully only gives a crap about Paddy. He should seek out the best Expert in the field that he can find.

Why should any stone be left unturned?

[sunsaint]

I'm not saying this is the case with Paddy, I wouldn't know.

the point being this is not a new situation that arose last weekend
Paddy has been dealing with his diabetes through his junior football career &
the level of care would gone up considerably when he joined AFL level
he and the club staff would be taking advice from outside medicos especially neurologists and diabetes specialists

SO when you say he will seek another opinion which is entirely his right -
his diabetes history, 8 concussions in four seasons, the ONLY difference will be the factor of long term risk

[Joffa Burns]

I believe the player has received advice to retire. He has refused. Whilst I believe he cannot be cut from the list, I certainly hope the club does not select him to play at any level.

Yep, was told the same thing today by a family member of his GF, or is it now his ex GF?

The kid is supposedly shattered.
Very sad for the lad but his health is most important.

You would logically think that potential litigation and duty of care would be the key driving elements behind the advice. I wonder if the direction originated at club level or higher up the food chain?

[saynta]

I like all of us, really feel for paddy. No one wants to see him suffer long term effects.

I would hate to see him get a further concussion.

If that means he doesn't play again, so be it.

[Scollop]

For far too long now, the AFL and the clubs, including ours, have their collective heads buried in the sand when it comes to concussion.

Even some members of this forum regard it as a minor injury. He’ll be right in a day or so. Well it isn’t and he won’t.

Concussion is an extremely serious injury. It can cause long term cognitive loss among other major symptoms and problems.

It is a an important issue not just for our game but any contact sport.

To ignore it, or dismiss it or trivialise concussion, risks not only the health and welfare of the player but opens up a can of worms in terms of civil liability and its legal ramifications.

Right now, our club is facing a potential crisis in the form of Paddy McCartin. Eight concussions in five years speaks for itself.

If Paddy won’t make the call to retire immediately then the call must be made for him either by St Kilda, or the AFL.

To do anything less would be reckless and irresponsible.

We are playing with people’s lives here.

It's time????

AFL teams (with guidance from head office) are taking it so seriously that elements of our great game are essentially outlawed. The old 'hip and shoulder' is now a relick of the past.

Most players have second thoughts when thinking about laying a bump. Do a google search with the phrase "the head is sacrosanct' and you'll find that concussion has been taken seriously in the AFL for at least 5 years

The sporting world was taking it seriously for about a decade. Cognitive testing and concussion protocols are nothing new. They are cumpulsory in the AFL for the very reasons you describe. I agree with you that the evidence is mounting regarding multiple episodes for players and perhaps Paddy has to slowly come to terms with the inevitable

[saintsRrising]

For far too long now, the AFL and the clubs, including ours, have their collective heads buried in the sand when it comes to concussion.

We had two players retire prematurely and unexpectedly both due to concussion last season in Dempster and Stevens. So I am not sure why you think that "collective heads are buried in the sand"?

[damienc]

For far too long now, the AFL and the clubs, including ours, have their collective heads buried in the sand when it comes to concussion.

We had two players retire prematurely and unexpectedly both due to concussion last season in Dempster and Stevens. So I am not sure why you think that "collective heads are buried in the sand"?

I don’t think you could classify Dempster as retiring prematurely due solely to concussion. He had run his race in terms of age and body in my view. I think his retirement was expected.

But anyway, putting that to one side, in Koby’s case his symptoms were so severe and compelling that he did so for reasons of self preservation.

But my point is the clubs including ours are not on the front foot where they should be on this issue.

Our club would have still played Koby had he not pulled the pin in my view.

Sorry but I disagree with you.

The AFL and clubs do not take the issue of concussion seriously as an important health and safety workplace issue. They have a duty of care to every AFL player in every club not to mention a potential civil legal liability.

They need to implement a concussion protocol that triggers immediate and compulsory retirement once the threshold is reached. A threshold that needs to be determined in consultation with expert medical advice.

The current concussion policy carries great risk both legal and on health and safety grounds.

[damienc]

For far too long now, the AFL and the clubs, including ours, have their collective heads buried in the sand when it comes to concussion.

Even some members of this forum regard it as a minor injury. He’ll be right in a day or so. Well it isn’t and he won’t.

Concussion is an extremely serious injury. It can cause long term cognitive loss among other major symptoms and problems.

It is a an important issue not just for our game but any contact sport.

To ignore it, or dismiss it or trivialise concussion, risks not only the health and welfare of the player but opens up a can of worms in terms of civil liability and its legal ramifications.

Right now, our club is facing a potential crisis in the form of Paddy McCartin. Eight concussions in five years speaks for itself.

If Paddy won’t make the call to retire immediately then the call must be made for him either by St Kilda, or the AFL.

To do anything less would be reckless and irresponsible.

We are playing with people’s lives here.

It's time????

AFL teams (with guidance from head office) are taking it so seriously that elements of our great game are essentially outlawed. The old 'hip and shoulder' is now a relick of the past.

Most players have second thoughts when thinking about laying a bump. Do a google search with the phrase "the head is sacrosanct' and you'll find that concussion has been taken seriously in the AFL for at least 5 years

The sporting world was taking it seriously for about a decade. Cognitive testing and concussion protocols are nothing new. They are cumpulsory in the AFL for the very reasons you describe. I agree with you that the evidence is mounting regarding multiple episodes for players and perhaps Paddy has to slowly come to terms with the inevitable

Sorry. I can’t agree.

Clubs keep picking a player after multiple concussions especially if that player happens to be a valuable commodity.

Paddy is a case in point.

He is now up to concussion number 8. The pin should have been pulled on his AFL career after concussion number four.

And it isn’t just our club doing this . Other AFL clubs have been just as guilty.

[damienc]

For far too long now, the AFL and the clubs, including ours, have their collective heads buried in the sand when it comes to concussion.

Even some members of this forum regard it as a minor injury. He’ll be right in a day or so. Well it isn’t and he won’t.

Concussion is an extremely serious injury. It can cause long term cognitive loss among other major symptoms and problems.

It is a an important issue not just for our game but any contact sport.

To ignore it, or dismiss it or trivialise concussion, risks not only the health and welfare of the player but opens up a can of worms in terms of civil liability and its legal ramifications.

Right now, our club is facing a potential crisis in the form of Paddy McCartin. Eight concussions in five years speaks for itself.

If Paddy won’t make the call to retire immediately then the call must be made for him either by St Kilda, or the AFL.

To do anything less would be reckless and irresponsible.

We are playing with people’s lives here.

It's time????

AFL teams (with guidance from head office) are taking it so seriously that elements of our great game are essentially outlawed. The old 'hip and shoulder' is now a relick of the past.

Most players have second thoughts when thinking about laying a bump. Do a google search with the phrase "the head is sacrosanct' and you'll find that concussion has been taken seriously in the AFL for at least 5 years

The sporting world was taking it seriously for about a decade. Cognitive testing and concussion protocols are nothing new. They are cumpulsory in the AFL for the very reasons you describe. I agree with you that the evidence is mounting regarding multiple episodes for players and perhaps Paddy has to slowly come to terms with the inevitable

Actually I owe you an apology. I should have read your post more closely.

[saintsRrising]

I don’t think you could classify Dempster as retiring prematurely due solely to concussion. He had run his race in terms of age and body in my view. I think his retirement was expected.

He retired on 6th April. The season was only just starting.

[saintsRrising]

Our club would have still played Koby had he not pulled the pin in my view.

What basis is there for that statement?

I think it was clear from from what happened at the time that the medical process that the club had Koby go through determined that Koby had to retire.

Probably the Saints and club would have wished it to not be so. But it was so.

It would seem to be an outlandish call that the club would overule the medicos to have had Koby play on.

Do you have some knowledge for your claim, or is this alfoil hat time?

[saintsRrising]

PS. I have no doubt that Paddy is at the crossroads re playing ever again. It may well be that the decision has virtually been made and they are giving him time to adjust.

Either way I have no doubt that the matter is not being taking seriously by the club or player.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Luke Penny retired for less.

The head is sacrosanct and no one with Paddy's history should be risking more brain injuries.

Terribly sad but the bloke has to think of the future.

[damienc]

Our club would have still played Koby had he not pulled the pin in my view.

What basis is there for that statement?

I think it was clear from from what happened at the time that the medical process that the club had Koby go through determined that Koby had to retire.

Probably the Saints and club would have wished it to not be so. But it was so.

It would seem to be an outlandish call that the club would overule the medicos to have had Koby play on.

Do you have some knowledge for your claim, or is this alfoil hat time?

If you don’t mind me saying so you appear to be blinded by the obvious.

The club kept playing McCartin after 7 concussions.

I truly believe the club would have kept playing Koby had he wanted to continue his footy career as Paddy clearly does.

We are not the only club to have done this. It has to change.

[saintspremiers]

With Paddy, the diabetes factor is MASSIVE factor in the forced retirement option.

Can’t compare him to Brayshaw or others.

Koby said he was still having on going issues so he pretty much made the decision himself