There needs to be real accountability for these decisions

[samuraisaint]

I think the members and supporters voted with their feet last night - 20,000 to watch a match against the team that won the 2016 Premiership - of at least 6,000 would have been 'Dogs supporters.
And those that did go booed the team at three quarter time (My family and the family we went with didn't.)
I was there last night and in the first quarter and the beginning of the second we looked good. Had we continued in that vein we could have had a regulation 4 goal win, probably lose next week against Essendon, but we would've had some hope against the Hawks, and then a farewell game for Gilbert against North in the last round. 5 wins,a draw, blooded a few players, given others some much needed experience, a big pre-season ahead, and we all move on.
But we didn't.
We had players missing shots from just outside the goal square, set shot, straight in front, not acceptable.
We had the same players time and time again pick out the opposition when kicking forward, not acceptable.
Our coach didn't bother to tag a premiership player; a bloke who has hardly had a touch all year, who ended up racking up almost 50 possessions, not enough respect shown.
Players snapping for goal and missing when they had players on their own in a better position they could have given it off too, not acceptable.
A team who have struggled to kick more than 5 goals a game kicked 8.6 in a quarter to none, not acceptable.
Schache had his best game of his career last night, and he got it against our most experience defender, good luck to him, but not acceptable.

Like the Swans, elements of the third quarter against the Bulldogs have been an ongoing feature of our games against them under our coach's reign. How can he fail to fix this in five seasons? People are not going to continue to rock up to watch it. I will, to be honest, but many will not.


At this point the question is not about whether the coach has lost the players or not, it is about whether he has lost the members and rank and file supporters and barrackers. We are so far behind many of the other teams it isn't funny in terms of player development, and next season Brisbane are going to go above us too. Player development has been poor and I don't think they are turning over enough of the assistants. It reeks of scapegoating a few in what is a feeble attempt to paper over the cracks.

Unlike some supporters, I am a realist and didn't think we'd make the finals this season, on the back of some retirements and question marks over some of our high draft pick calls, but I thought we'd hold our position and win half our games. Later I revised my opinion, and I thought we could at least win 8 games based on our fixture, then down to 6, but 4 wins is not an acceptable outcome under any circumstances. The club has been mismanaged, with too much focus being on the move back to Moorabbin, at the expense of the on field. I also think a lot of people are susceptible to revisionism about the whole Moorabbin thing. I remember us getting the wooden spoon at least half a dozen times there in ten or twelve seasons, so I don't know why it had to become the be all and end all.

In this new AFL world of corporate-speak and Marketing and PR spin, I would be very interested to know how it is acceptable that five years along, we are in the exact same position.

[Liam_G]

I was there last night, I've been to every game this season as I do each and every year. I'm not your longest serving supporter, I barely remember the dark times of the 80s, and I can't reel off names and numbers of Saints greats from before I was born bar Baldock and Ditterich. But at 34 years old this is my 20th consecutive year as a member, and I'm as loyal as loyal comes.

Not anymore.

It was the first time in a very long time I've heard our own supporters boo the team after a quarter. And I don't blame them. You've hit the nail on the head with each of your statements. The admin. The player development. The lack of desire. The lack of skill. Our club, as a whole, is a rabble. And with no obvious plan for improvement, no direction from this administration that looks to improve our situation, I'm struggling to find that desire myself.

I won't be attending any of our remaining matches this season. Fellow supporters can call me whatever they want, they can say to not let the door hit me on the way out. That's fine, and best of luck to those that have thicker hides than I. But I'm done. I'm one of these people that you have described, a supporter, a member, that has now been lost.

[iwantmeseats]

Part of the problem is the club just Dosent stand for anything.
It will bend over at the slightest zephyr to the AFL admin
No fan engagement. Proper fan engagement. Not bulls*** gimmicks on match day...that stuff is annoying rubbish.
There is NO reason you would turn up at the moment,none whatsoever.

[maverick]

I agree, we have to make a change now.
Enoughs enough.
We can't attract a free agent
We have poor on field leadership
Our coaching structures are in disarray, especially now we have sacked half of them
People left in droves last night at 3/4 time
Every one of our possible A graders have gone backwards this year bar the possible exception of Gresham
Lethlean let loose

[saintspremiers]

Lethlean and/or a new board are our only hopes.

If Krusty is again senior coach next year he’ll need a noose and a muzzle and just be there for show

[samuraisaint]

I was there last night, I've been to every game this season as I do each and every year. I'm not your longest serving supporter, I barely remember the dark times of the 80s, and I can't reel off names and numbers of Saints greats from before I was born bar Baldock and Ditterich. But at 34 years old this is my 20th consecutive year as a member, and I'm as loyal as loyal comes.

Not anymore.

It was the first time in a very long time I've heard our own supporters boo the team after a quarter. And I don't blame them. You've hit the nail on the head with each of your statements. The admin. The player development. The lack of desire. The lack of skill. Our club, as a whole, is a rabble. And with no obvious plan for improvement, no direction from this administration that looks to improve our situation, I'm struggling to find that desire myself.

I won't be attending any of our remaining matches this season. Fellow supporters can call me whatever they want, they can say to not let the door hit me on the way out. That's fine, and best of luck to those that have thicker hides than I. But I'm done. I'm one of these people that you have described, a supporter, a member, that has now been lost.

The only time I can remember St Kilda supporters booing their own was at Moorabbin funnily enough, in what turned out to be a good year, 1991. We started off well, but were in a mid-season slump before going on to finally make finals again. We lost by a single point to Melbourne, who weren't bad themselves, and the members stand was loudly booing Kenny Sheldon and the players as they were coming off the field. I thought they were idiots booing their own, to be honest, but to each their own. Last night was not a good look for anyone involved with the St. Kilda FC full stop.

[older saint]

Been through the dark times of the 80's but the competition is different now. I cannot remember a more inept 30 minutes of football since the 3rd qtr against Hawthorn at VFL park 1999 squandering a 63 point lead with Tim Wats(going)on as the coach.

Everything above is correct, but not sure why everyone thinks Lethlean is the cure. He was an AFL exec sacked for his behaviour,( right or wrong irrelevant to this argument), but was has he done in club land to say he will be able to right this ship ??

Everyone needs to be accountable however no one there has the balls to stand up and make people accountable on all levels Board and Executives right through to VFL players and everyone in between -because if there was it would have happened weeks ago

[older saint]

Been through the dark times of the 80's but the competition is different now. I cannot remember a more inept 30 minutes of football since the 3rd qtr against Hawthorn at VFL park 1999 squandering a 63 point lead with Tim Wats(going)on as the coach.

Everything above is correct, but not sure why everyone thinks Lethlean is the cure. He was an AFL exec sacked for his behaviour,( right or wrong irrelevant to this argument), but was has he done in club land to say he will be able to right this ship ??

Everyone needs to be accountable however no one there has the balls to stand up and make people accountable on all levels Board and Executives right through to VFL players and everyone in between -because if there was it would have happened weeks ago

[older saint]

Been through the dark times of the 80's but the competition is different now. I cannot remember a more inept 30 minutes of football since the 3rd qtr against Hawthorn at VFL park 1999 squandering a 63 point lead with Tim Wats(going)on as the coach.

Everything above is correct, but not sure why everyone thinks Lethlean is the cure. He was an AFL exec sacked for his behaviour,( right or wrong irrelevant to this argument), but was has he done in club land to say he will be able to right this ship ??

Everyone needs to be accountable however no one there has the balls to stand up and make people accountable on all levels Board and Executives right through to VFL players and everyone in between -because if there was it would have happened weeks ago

[Bruce G McAbee]

I have closed shop for the season. If Gilbert announces his retirement I will go to the last game as a mark of respect. If Richardson is coach again next year I will probably only attend home games. The people who sit next to me have already announced they are not renewing their membership.
Don't be surprised if they trade Billings to a good side that he becomes a very good player with the right development.
I turn 61 in November and believe I will never see this club win a premiership.

[BenLong#21]

I was there last night, I've been to every game this season as I do each and every year. I'm not your longest serving supporter, I barely remember the dark times of the 80s, and I can't reel off names and numbers of Saints greats from before I was born bar Baldock and Ditterich. But at 34 years old this is my 20th consecutive year as a member, and I'm as loyal as loyal comes.

Not anymore.

It was the first time in a very long time I've heard our own supporters boo the team after a quarter. And I don't blame them. You've hit the nail on the head with each of your statements. The admin. The player development. The lack of desire. The lack of skill. Our club, as a whole, is a rabble. And with no obvious plan for improvement, no direction from this administration that looks to improve our situation, I'm struggling to find that desire myself.

I won't be attending any of our remaining matches this season. Fellow supporters can call me whatever they want, they can say to not let the door hit me on the way out. That's fine, and best of luck to those that have thicker hides than I. But I'm done. I'm one of these people that you have described, a supporter, a member, that has now been lost.

The only time I can remember St Kilda supporters booing their own was at Moorabbin funnily enough, in what turned out to be a good year, 1991. We started off well, but were in a mid-season slump before going on to finally make finals again. We lost by a single point to Melbourne, who weren't bad themselves, and the members stand was loudly booing Kenny Sheldon and the players as they were coming off the field. I thought they were idiots booing their own, to be honest, but to each their own. Last night was not a good look for anyone involved with the St. Kilda FC full stop.

We won 14 games in 1991.
Not a great comparator.

[samuraisaint]

I was there last night, I've been to every game this season as I do each and every year. I'm not your longest serving supporter, I barely remember the dark times of the 80s, and I can't reel off names and numbers of Saints greats from before I was born bar Baldock and Ditterich. But at 34 years old this is my 20th consecutive year as a member, and I'm as loyal as loyal comes.

Not anymore.

It was the first time in a very long time I've heard our own supporters boo the team after a quarter. And I don't blame them. You've hit the nail on the head with each of your statements. The admin. The player development. The lack of desire. The lack of skill. Our club, as a whole, is a rabble. And with no obvious plan for improvement, no direction from this administration that looks to improve our situation, I'm struggling to find that desire myself.

I won't be attending any of our remaining matches this season. Fellow supporters can call me whatever they want, they can say to not let the door hit me on the way out. That's fine, and best of luck to those that have thicker hides than I. But I'm done. I'm one of these people that you have described, a supporter, a member, that has now been lost.

The only time I can remember St Kilda supporters booing their own was at Moorabbin funnily enough, in what turned out to be a good year, 1991. We started off well, but were in a mid-season slump before going on to finally make finals again. We lost by a single point to Melbourne, who weren't bad themselves, and the members stand was loudly booing Kenny Sheldon and the players as they were coming off the field. I thought they were idiots booing their own, to be honest, but to each their own. Last night was not a good look for anyone involved with the St. Kilda FC full stop.

We won 14 games in 1991.
Not a great comparator.

My point was that in (probably over) 45 years of attending St. Kilda matches very regularly, I can only ever remember having witnessed a St Kilda Members Stand en masse booing their own once before last night, and I have seen some very poor performances in that time as you can imagine. 1991 was a very good year, because we won 14 games, drew another (with the reigning Premier) and made finals for only the first time in 18 years. Booing on that day was because the members and supporters were worried that we were going to miss out on finals again (wrongly as it turned out), and I didn't agree with it, as I have said.

[Scollop]

1. We had players missing shots from just outside the goal square, set shot, straight in front, not acceptable.

2. We had the same players time and time again pick out the opposition when kicking forward, not acceptable.

3. Our coach didn't bother to tag a premiership player; a bloke who has hardly had a touch all year, who ended up racking up almost 50 possessions, not enough respect shown.

4. Players snapping for goal and missing when they had players on their own in a better position they could have given it off too, not acceptable.

5. A team who have struggled to kick more than 5 goals a game kicked 8.6 in a quarter to none, not acceptable.

6. Schache had his best game of his career last night, and he got it against our most experience defender, good luck to him, but not acceptable.

Thanks samuraisaint for one of the posts of the year. You have not only summarised how everyone is feeling but you have also outlined the reasons why we are currently a rabble of a football club. Every ounce of success is built on the foundations of a winning team on field. The best administrators are judged on their ability to employ and retain the best on field coaches in the game. Our admin apparantly employed Richo based on an interview Richo had conducted with the club 2 years prior to him actually getting this job ( it was at the time that Watters was interviewed). Anyhow, that wasn't 100% confirmed but that was the inside mail from some of the ITK's.

The other reason I think your post could be the best I've read this year is because you took the time to breakdown some simple fundamental behaviours that I believe all come down to poor coaching. That's why I requoted just those 6 player actions above. People might say that a coach isn't responsible for a players poor kicking, but I say he is at leadt responsible for improving it. In the last 3 years we have seen zero improvement.

The leader and current senior coach is accountable for players' discipline and for player accountability for their actions. He has failed to lead this group. He has failed to inspire and develop and nurture a young team. He has failed to instill team discipline and perhaps last nights display is also the best example of his inability to create an environment for his players to thrive and all work together for each other.

The poor accountability from each and every player and the acts you described stem from years of poor coaching which has culminated into the disaster of a performance we saw last night. The players are so confused and so lacking in discipline and direction that they are not functioning as a whole. It's selfish football rather than team football. Richo has to go and so do the board that were responsible for extending his contract last year.

[samuraisaint]

Thanks Scollop for the kind words!

I think all of us who barrack for the Sainters had the fear that going in with only one ruckman was pure folly, and the dropping of Marshall was just a ridiculous move. And sure enough what happens? Hickey goes down with a hammy in the second, Acres is in the ruck again, we start to lose it out of the middle again, Doggies catch up, then in the third Carlisle has to ruck, so that Acres can come out of the ruck contests, and their forwards kick 8 goals 6 to nothing in a quarter and game over! And this happens against a team who have won only one game in ten, and have struggled to win a second half all season.

To add insult to injury is that Battle goes off injured anyway, and at the other end of the ground, our experienced full back gets beaten by Schache who has his best ever game, when Goddard should have been given his first game all season in the first place. I know Schache only kicked one goal against the FB, but this happened because there was no-one who could cover Bontompelli at the same time, so we really were schooled at the selection table.

Add to that regular senior players continually giving the ball straight back to the opposition and it not being rectified is also a major concern.

It is things like that, and stuff like Armo being dropped for no good reason against the Giants, that makes me think that the selection committee of our club has no idea.