Lewis Pierce

[Beno88]

In a rare piece of good news Lewis Pierce seems like he is playing really well at Frankston.

Been in the bests six times in seven games and is apparently dominating games. In the only game he wasn't included in the bests, he kicked 2 goals.

Paul Amy on twitter posted yesterday "Lewis Pierce is a St Kilda rookie playing at Frankston, not the Saints' VFL partner Sandringham. And he's thriving as a No.1 ruckman. Had 47 hit-outs and 18 possessions yesterday. 'He's become a stand-out ruckman of the competition', Dolphins coach Adam Skrobalak said."

I thought it might be all over for Lewis at the end of this season, but this is very positive news.

[saynta]

tony 74 said the kid had ability.

[rodgerfox]

tony 74 said the kid had ability.

Don't worry, we'll coach that out of him.

[dragit]

With the amount of guys retiring and needing delisting I think we can afford to persist with this bloke… handy to have a mature ruckman on the rookie list.

Kudos for turning his career around, wasn't looking good last year.

If we can get a pick for Longer we should do it.

[stonecold]

Gotta be a better option than what Hickey is bringing to the table, Grundy smashed him!!!!!

With Longer struggling with fitness and form, give Pierce a go!!!!!

Grundy topped the AFL fantasy points on Saturday Night!!!!!

Hickey is a non identity at Centre Bounces and throw ins, he's lack of physicality really gets under my skin!!!!!

As for he's kick across the ground in defence, well, this is a perfect example of why he's cheap possies around the ground are pointless!!!!!

[samoht]

We only lost the clearances by 3 (36 to 33) - so, it's not as if Grundy's extra hitouts led to more clearances, but the fact that Grundy was better around the ground. The guy had 23 possessions around the ground, while Hickey only had 13.
And by however much he was better than Hickey around the ground, he would have been even more so against Longer.
So it gets back to how good a ruckman is around the ground - and Longer is a non-entity in this very important area.

Hopefully Pierce keeps developing - he's already ahead of Longer, in my estimation.

[parkeysainter]

Give him a few games at the Saints by season's end. It will be good to see what he can do and why not? Its become a development year now anyway.

We know Hickey and Longer can play and handle the AFL so to speak so give King Lewie a chance I say.

[barneyboyz]

We only lost the clearances by 3 (36 to 33) - so, it's not as if Grundy's extra hitouts led to more clearances, but the fact that Grundy was better around the ground. The guy had 23 possessions around the ground, while Hickey only had 13.
And by however much he was better than Hickey around the ground, he would have been even more so against Longer.
So it gets back to how good a ruckman is around the ground - and Longer is a non-entity in this very important area.

Hopefully Pierce keeps developing - he's already ahead of Longer, in my estimation.

We need to swap Pierce for Marshall atm. Tom has been, and can be again a very good option, he's just like the rest of them and severely out of form

Marshall is just not ready at the moment

[The_Dud]

Gotta be a better option than what Hickey is bringing to the table, Grundy smashed him!!!!!

With Longer struggling with fitness and form, give Pierce a go!!!!!

Grundy topped the AFL fantasy points on Saturday Night!!!!!

Hickey is a non identity at Centre Bounces and throw ins, he's lack of physicality really gets under my skin!!!!!

As for he's kick across the ground in defence, well, this is a perfect example of why he's cheap possies around the ground are pointless!!!!!

“Smashed him”? “Non identity”? The actual facts will say otherwise. 33-36 in the clearances is pretty good for a “non identity” with the worst midfield in the comp. At half time the hit outs to advantage were Hickey 7 to Grundy 5 (not sure of the full time stats). Grundy got 1 possession above his average and no goals. Hickey worked hard for a goal but Gresh butchered the kick to him all alone in the goal square.

Grundy was better, but don’t be ridiculous.

[stonecold]

See Dud, once again you only see what you wish, nothing to say about the switch kick across the ground,, of course not!!!!!

Since when have ruckman been totally responsible for clearances?????

Tom Hickey is a non identity at Centre Bounces and throw ins, end of story!!!!!

He has no core strength for starters, thus is too easily pushed out of position, (by a younger ruckman to, if you don't mind)!!!!!

When was the last time you played Ruck anywhere?????

When was the last time we actually won a game with Tom playing 1st Ruck?????

How many wins has he played in during he's career?????

Like many of our players, he's not good enough!!!!!

Say what you like, he aren't up to it, as proven the last 4weeks!!!!!

[Joffa Burns]

Good move by the Saints sending "underbelly" to follow Adam Skrobalak to Frankston.

I still believe Lewis needs to work on his vertical leap if he is to compete at AFL level.

[Crossy66]

I'd forget about lewis pierce for a while. Big jump from Frankston to Sandy then AFL, but good to see he is heading in the right direction. AMy be next year if form continues to inprove.
I think its time to try something different. Why not play Longer in the ruck and play Hickey in the McCartin role but not to wander too far from goals? I dont think Hickey is a ruckman but he can take a mark and kick ok and play the back up ruck role. Also Allows Longer to take the ruck contest then drift back into defence.
Best of both worlds and if it works will be the new standard in the AFL.

[saynta]

I'd forget about lewis pierce for a while. Big jump from Frankston to Sandy then AFL, but good to see he is heading in the right direction. AMy be next year if form continues to inprove.
I think its time to try something different. Why not play Longer in the ruck and play Hickey in the McCartin role but not to wander too far from goals? I dont think Hickey is a ruckman but he can take a mark and kick ok and play the back up ruck role. Also Allows Longer to take the ruck contest then drift back into defence.
Best of both worlds and if it works will be the new standard in the AFL.

I have been thinking the same thing,

Worth a try.

[ace]

I'd forget about lewis pierce for a while. Big jump from Frankston to Sandy then AFL, but good to see he is heading in the right direction. AMy be next year if form continues to inprove.
I think its time to try something different. Why not play Longer in the ruck and play Hickey in the McCartin role but not to wander too far from goals? I dont think Hickey is a ruckman but he can take a mark and kick ok and play the back up ruck role. Also Allows Longer to take the ruck contest then drift back into defence.
Best of both worlds and if it works will be the new standard in the AFL.

Why would you wish the Pudding McCartin's role on anyone.
Walking around banging heads with opponents, dropping marks, is not very productive.
Hickey can do so much better than that, he can run and he can mark.

[Crossy66]

I'd forget about lewis pierce for a while. Big jump from Frankston to Sandy then AFL, but good to see he is heading in the right direction. AMy be next year if form continues to inprove.
I think its time to try something different. Why not play Longer in the ruck and play Hickey in the McCartin role but not to wander too far from goals? I dont think Hickey is a ruckman but he can take a mark and kick ok and play the back up ruck role. Also Allows Longer to take the ruck contest then drift back into defence.
Best of both worlds and if it works will be the new standard in the AFL.

Why would you wish the Pudding McCartin's role on anyone.
Walking around banging heads with opponents, dropping marks, is not very productive.
Hickey can do so much better than that, he can run and he can mark.

OK then, Sounds like Hickey might be the marking target up forward , or at the very least bring it to ground to our advantage. I dont think he will be any less mobile than Paddy. Also think it gives Hickey an opportunity to really establish himself. Over to you Richo!

[The_Dud]

See Dud, once again you only see what you wish, nothing to say about the switch kick across the ground,, of course not!!!!!

Since when have ruckman been totally responsible for clearances?????

Tom Hickey is a non identity at Centre Bounces and throw ins, end of story!!!!!

He has no core strength for starters, thus is too easily pushed out of position, (by a younger ruckman to, if you don't mind)!!!!!

When was the last time you played Ruck anywhere?????

When was the last time we actually won a game with Tom playing 1st Ruck?????

How many wins has he played in during he's career?????

Like many of our players, he's not good enough!!!!!

Say what you like, he aren't up to it, as proven the last 4weeks!!!!!

What about the kick? He stuffed it up, that’s obvious. But if we dropped every player who turned the ball over we soon wouldn’t have a team.

How can you say Hickey is a non identity at stoppages, yet we nearly break even at clearances? How does that work? We have the worst midfield in the comp, not Judd, Kerr and Cousins making him look good!

The facts are he had MORE tap outs to advantage (clearly the best kind) in the first half, and if someone could find the full time stats I would appreciate it.

All this points to a ruckman who is clearly at worst being competitive. You just for some reason hate him and can’t admit he is the best Ruck option at our club right now. Marshall is out of form, Longer isn’t an AFL footballer, and this Pierce news sounds promising.

And our best year since Lyon was 2016, have a guess who was rucking that year

It’s a totally different game now than the 80s, time to get up to speed!

[Impatient Sainter]

Great to hear Pierce is improving just goes to show how bad our players development has been whilst linked with Sandringham.

I remember watching Pierce in an intra club preseason game a few years back and declared then that he was going to be our next A grade ruckman. How wrong I was but it looks like there might be hope yet!

[Crossy66]

See Dud, once again you only see what you wish, nothing to say about the switch kick across the ground,, of course not!!!!!

Since when have ruckman been totally responsible for clearances?????

Tom Hickey is a non identity at Centre Bounces and throw ins, end of story!!!!!

He has no core strength for starters, thus is too easily pushed out of position, (by a younger ruckman to, if you don't mind)!!!!!

When was the last time you played Ruck anywhere?????

When was the last time we actually won a game with Tom playing 1st Ruck?????

How many wins has he played in during he's career?????

Like many of our players, he's not good enough!!!!!

Say what you like, he aren't up to it, as proven the last 4weeks!!!!!

What about the kick? He stuffed it up, that’s obvious. But if we dropped every player who turned the ball over we soon wouldn’t have a team.

How can you say Hickey is a non identity at stoppages, yet we nearly break even at clearances? How does that work? We have the worst midfield in the comp, not Judd, Kerr and Cousins making him look good!

The facts are he had MORE tap outs to advantage (clearly the best kind) in the first half, and if someone could find the full time stats I would appreciate it.

All this points to a ruckman who is clearly at worst being competitive. You just for some reason hate him and can’t admit he is the best Ruck option at our club right now. Marshall is out of form, Longer isn’t an AFL footballer, and this Pierce news sounds promising.

And our best year since Lyon was 2016, have a guess who was rucking that year

It’s a totally different game now than the 80s, time to get up to speed!

I am not in the i hate hickey camp, but this ongoing conversation fascinates me. You're right, its a totally different game now, after 2016 the ruck rules changed and Hickey suffered as a result. I think he can be a good player, just not as number one ruckman. In every stat he was poleaxed by Grundy , including around the ground which is supposed to be what he brings to the table. I really would like to see him play at Full forward to see how he goes as he can mark and kick ok.

As for the one stat he did comparatively well at, Hitouts to advantage, i can recall three of them where Grundy missed the contest, two where the ball went short and one over the back that Hickey took out of the ruck and kicked forward. Stats really dont tell the full picture. Its no shame to get towelled up by Grundy though, but it was very very one sided and i dont think we offered much of a contest.
I like the idea of Longer taking the ruck contests and rolling back and Hickey playing up forward and back up ruckman rather than killing players like Acres.

[The_Dud]

See Dud, once again you only see what you wish, nothing to say about the switch kick across the ground,, of course not!!!!!

Since when have ruckman been totally responsible for clearances?????

Tom Hickey is a non identity at Centre Bounces and throw ins, end of story!!!!!

He has no core strength for starters, thus is too easily pushed out of position, (by a younger ruckman to, if you don't mind)!!!!!

When was the last time you played Ruck anywhere?????

When was the last time we actually won a game with Tom playing 1st Ruck?????

How many wins has he played in during he's career?????

Like many of our players, he's not good enough!!!!!

Say what you like, he aren't up to it, as proven the last 4weeks!!!!!

What about the kick? He stuffed it up, that’s obvious. But if we dropped every player who turned the ball over we soon wouldn’t have a team.

How can you say Hickey is a non identity at stoppages, yet we nearly break even at clearances? How does that work? We have the worst midfield in the comp, not Judd, Kerr and Cousins making him look good!

The facts are he had MORE tap outs to advantage (clearly the best kind) in the first half, and if someone could find the full time stats I would appreciate it.

All this points to a ruckman who is clearly at worst being competitive. You just for some reason hate him and can’t admit he is the best Ruck option at our club right now. Marshall is out of form, Longer isn’t an AFL footballer, and this Pierce news sounds promising.

And our best year since Lyon was 2016, have a guess who was rucking that year

It’s a totally different game now than the 80s, time to get up to speed!

I am not in the i hate hickey camp, but this ongoing conversation fascinates me. You're right, its a totally different game now, after 2016 the ruck rules changed and Hickey suffered as a result. I think he can be a good player, just not as number one ruckman. In every stat he was poleaxed by Grundy , including around the ground which is supposed to be what he brings to the table. I really would like to see him play at Full forward to see how he goes as he can mark and kick ok.

As for the one stat he did comparatively well at, Hitouts to advantage, i can recall three of them where Grundy missed the contest, two where the ball went short and one over the back that Hickey took out of the ruck and kicked forward. Stats really dont tell the full picture. Its no shame to get towelled up by Grundy though, but it was very very one sided and i dont think we offered much of a contest.
I like the idea of Longer taking the ruck contests and rolling back and Hickey playing up forward and back up ruckman rather than killing players like Acres.

I think Hickey would do very well in that role also, and in a perfect world it would happen, but Longer isn’t the other option. If you wanted a ruckman who could win hit outs and contribute zero around the ground then we might as well have kept Holmes.

I also don’t think you can have Hickey, Longer, Bruce, Membrey, Paddy, Carlisle and Brown all in the same team.

And another note, Longer played round one and got absolutely towelled up by Martin, who is the same type of player as Grundy, and we got smashed in the clearances, which is another reason I’m skeptical about his one supposed good attribute of ruckwork.

Also the clearance stats of 33-36 show that even if Hickey isn’t winning as many hit outs, he made it difficult for Grundy. How else do you explain our poor midfield nearly breaking even?

In conclusion, get Big Boy back! Ha

[saynta]

Hate to break this to you, but Bruce, Paddy, Carlyle and Brown are all injured.

[Crossy66]

See Dud, once again you only see what you wish, nothing to say about the switch kick across the ground,, of course not!!!!!

Since when have ruckman been totally responsible for clearances?????

Tom Hickey is a non identity at Centre Bounces and throw ins, end of story!!!!!

He has no core strength for starters, thus is too easily pushed out of position, (by a younger ruckman to, if you don't mind)!!!!!

When was the last time you played Ruck anywhere?????

When was the last time we actually won a game with Tom playing 1st Ruck?????

How many wins has he played in during he's career?????

Like many of our players, he's not good enough!!!!!

Say what you like, he aren't up to it, as proven the last 4weeks!!!!!

What about the kick? He stuffed it up, that’s obvious. But if we dropped every player who turned the ball over we soon wouldn’t have a team.

How can you say Hickey is a non identity at stoppages, yet we nearly break even at clearances? How does that work? We have the worst midfield in the comp, not Judd, Kerr and Cousins making him look good!

The facts are he had MORE tap outs to advantage (clearly the best kind) in the first half, and if someone could find the full time stats I would appreciate it.

All this points to a ruckman who is clearly at worst being competitive. You just for some reason hate him and can’t admit he is the best Ruck option at our club right now. Marshall is out of form, Longer isn’t an AFL footballer, and this Pierce news sounds promising.

And our best year since Lyon was 2016, have a guess who was rucking that year

It’s a totally different game now than the 80s, time to get up to speed!

I am not in the i hate hickey camp, but this ongoing conversation fascinates me. You're right, its a totally different game now, after 2016 the ruck rules changed and Hickey suffered as a result. I think he can be a good player, just not as number one ruckman. In every stat he was poleaxed by Grundy , including around the ground which is supposed to be what he brings to the table. I really would like to see him play at Full forward to see how he goes as he can mark and kick ok.

As for the one stat he did comparatively well at, Hitouts to advantage, i can recall three of them where Grundy missed the contest, two where the ball went short and one over the back that Hickey took out of the ruck and kicked forward. Stats really dont tell the full picture. Its no shame to get towelled up by Grundy though, but it was very very one sided and i dont think we offered much of a contest.
I like the idea of Longer taking the ruck contests and rolling back and Hickey playing up forward and back up ruckman rather than killing players like Acres.

I think Hickey would do very well in that role also, and in a perfect world it would happen, but Longer isn’t the other option. If you wanted a ruckman who could win hit outs and contribute zero around the ground then we might as well have kept Holmes.

I also don’t think you can have Hickey, Longer, Bruce, Membrey, Paddy, Carlisle and Brown all in the same team.

And another note, Longer played round one and got absolutely towelled up by Martin, who is the same type of player as Grundy, and we got smashed in the clearances, which is another reason I’m skeptical about his one supposed good attribute of ruckwork.

Also the clearance stats of 33-36 show that even if Hickey isn’t winning as many hit outs, he made it difficult for Grundy. How else do you explain our poor midfield nearly breaking even?

In conclusion, get Big Boy back! Ha

Firstly, Longer came into the season underdone so shouldnt have played round one. I think you have to look at his 2017 form, particularly the back half of the year in which most conceded he went well.
I dont think we have a poor midfield as such. If you only look at stats, then our mids have matched most others for clearances and possessions.
I think the main knock on our mids is that they are one paced (except for Steven), overuse the ball by hand and in general, don't use the ball well.
Hickey in no way made it hard for Grundy, He had an absolute night out. Even the stats tell us that, but again Grundy is one of the better rucks getting around.
So heres the conundrum with Hickey (imho): He doesnt do well at ruck contests against most recognised ruckman (dont count Dawson Simpson, Stanley Etc)
But he also doesnt do well against the mobile rucks around the ground i.e. Grundy, Martin etc. either.

Agree that all the big fellas you mentioned cant be on the field at the same time. I said that i think Hickey can play FF but thats assuming Paddy needs a few weeks. I think if Longer drifts back and blocks space, perhaps we can replace brown with a more mobile option i.e. the Roberton type. And Membury to me is a mobile third forward so not a big lumbering type.
Either way it would be good to see Richo try something different.

[thejiggingsaint]

I for one am very happy to see Lewis Pierce (apparently) on the improve. Worth persevering with (IMHO)

[stonecold]

All good and correct points Crossy, he/she doesn't get it (not a self named 'Dud') for nothing!!!!!

Hickey is a non identity at Centre Bounces and Throw In's, simple!!!!!

Doesn't matter what era you come from (80's or 2020), you still need a presence, Tom has no presence!!!!!

Simple!!!!!

Didn't answer my question either Dud, what ruck experience do you have?????

[dragit]

what ruck experience do you have?????

Mate, you need to give this ^ schtick away… this is a fan forum, not a big noting, self anointed, former players chat group.

No-one cares bud.

[samoht]

Bottom line is the clearance numbers.
The Bulldogs - an average team whose ruck is even less of a "non-entity" than Hickey - are nevertheless averaging the same number of clearances as WCE this year, with about 30 less hitouts/game .

All Pierce has to be is competitive in ruck contests - as long as he's not a "non-entity" around the ground. He has to get his 15 possessions plus and not be a passenger around the ground.