HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby damienc » Mon 16 Apr 2018 10:08am

To Alan Richardson and all of the so called coaches we have. Especially the goal kicking coach. What a fraud he is.

Guess what fellas. It hasn't worked. None of it has worked. Whatever you are doing or think you are doing. IT HASN'T WORKED.

Right at this moment, in time, our footy team is a joke. We have no structure and no idea. We have a number one draft pick who is anything but.

Early days you say. Hasn't played much footy you say.

Sure. My question is when? When are we going to get anything like a return on investment?

Paddy McCartin was picked to be the next Rooey. Trust me that will never happen. The best we can hope for is a bloke who can kick a few goals. And he is way way short of even that.

I am not blaming him for our woes. It goes way beyond him.

Whatever we did to beat Richmond and GWS last season and let's face it, they are the only shining lights in three seasons of footy, we are not doing now. Nowhere near it.

So I would be thinking, what are we doing now that's different and stop doing it. IT HASN'T WORKED.

My advice to the brains trust of the St Kilda.

Do something ELSE. Fast. Or go back to doing what we did to prepare against Richmond and the Giants. That seemed to work.

Do something or else this season will evaporate and the vast majority of St Kilda supporters along with it.

Consider yourselves told.
damienc
Club Player
 
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon 17 Oct 2011 7:19pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby RODOS » Mon 16 Apr 2018 10:26am

paddy mccartin isn't the bloody problem, he's actually coming good in a very poor team, very poor delivery, 3 on 1s. he had 12 touches last night, 6 marks, only one goal but could have been more, that contested mark in the square was good but it was touched off the boot.

However I agree re the team, whatever we're doing isn't working, TRY SOMETHING ELSE ffs. get back to a simple style, fast play, man up their loose players in the forward line and try and hit up passes. make it really simple
RODOS
Club Player
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu 18 Apr 2013 11:13pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby ace » Mon 16 Apr 2018 10:32am

RODOS wrote:paddy mccartin isn't the bloody problem, he's actually coming good in a very poor team, very poor delivery, 3 on 1s. he had 12 touches last night, 6 marks, only one goal but could have been more, that contested mark in the square was good but it was touched off the boot.

However I agree re the team, whatever we're doing isn't working, TRY SOMETHING ELSE ffs. get back to a simple style, fast play, man up their loose players in the forward line and try and hit up passes. make it really simple

Paddy may make it as a GOP, the sort of guy you pick up with a third or fourth round pick.
The sort of guy you play because you can't assemble a team full of elite or near elite players.
He didn't select himself at No1 pick, the recruiters did that.
Blame the recruiters.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
User avatar
ace
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 6719
Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
Location: St Kilda

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby saintspremiers » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:32am

Paddy will be much better now he isn’t so anxious prior to games. He has said his blood sugars hit 16 due to nerves a few weeks back and it’s like playing with a hangover.

I don’t have diabetes so I don’t know from experience, but this point is massive. If he’s more of a cool hand Luke at the start of a game and his sugars are normal then he can play like a normal player.

Anyone notice the white patch on his shoulder?

I’m guessing that’s a probe in his arm. Diabetics can hold a device near the probe and get a blood sugar reading instantly. No finger pricks required!

Where the technology is brilliant is that the device not only tells you the blood sugar levels, but if it’s rising, falling or steady. If this is what Paddy uses it’s a fantastic tool.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
saintspremiers
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 23727
Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
Location: Trump Tower

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby saynta » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:36am

saintspremiers wrote:Paddy will be much better now he isn’t so anxious prior to games. He has said his blood sugars hit 16 due to nerves a few weeks back and it’s like playing with a hangover.

I don’t have diabetes so I don’t know from experience, but this point is massive. If he’s more of a cool hand Luke at the start of a game and his sugars are normal then he can play like a normal player.

Anyone notice the white patch on his shoulder?

I’m guessing that’s a probe in his arm. Diabetics can hold a device near the probe and get a blood sugar reading instantly. No finger pricks required!

Where the technology is brilliant is that the device not only tells you the blood sugar levels, but if it’s rising, falling or steady. If this is what Paddy uses it’s a fantastic tool.


Correct. My son in law wears one.
saynta
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 5544
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby Devilhead » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:47am

Paddy did a load better than Mongo Hawkins yesterday with a lot worse delivery
The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
User avatar
Devilhead
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 4560
Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:56pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby stonecold » Mon 16 Apr 2018 11:49am

Devilhead wrote:Paddy did a load better than Mongo Hawkins yesterday with a lot worse delivery


Yeap, Paddy can hold he's head up!!!!!
'Cause StoneCold Said So'!!!!!
stonecold
SS Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 2170
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2015 3:12pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby perfectionist » Mon 16 Apr 2018 12:08pm

damienc wrote:...Especially the goal kicking coach. What a fraud he is...

An interesting role at a footy club. The reality is that if you can't kick by age 15, you will likely never be able to kick. The age could even be lower, certainly for being able to kick on both feet. The main problem is that style (including faults) are so ingrained after ten years or so of doing it, it is almost impossible to change. To that extent, it is easier to teach someone at age 15 to kick if they have never kicked before than someone who has had 10 years of practice at doing the wrong thing. Of course, the person's physique has something to do with it as well. It's all about the conservation of momentum, which is the product of the mass and velocity of an object, in this case the ball. It is a three-dimensional vector quantity (kicks off the side of the boot), possessing a magnitude and a direction. If m is an object's mass and v is the velocity (also a vector), then the momentum is p = m v. This is a rather simple formula, which even our players should be able to understand, except Sam Gilbert. The idea is to impart as much of the momentum in the direction you want the ball to travel as you can.

Whilst I firmly believe that bad field kicks will never be good field kicks, the same cannot necessarily be said for kicking for goal. Bad field kicks will never be able to kick for goal. However, as we see every week at every game, good field kicks can't kick for goal either. In fact, I think it is getting worse that at any time in the last 30 years. Kicking for goal was deplorable until the late 60s when teams moved from flat punt and drop kicks to the drop punt. In the 70s, 80s and 90s, kicking for goal improved a lot. To be fair to current players, tight angle shots are now almost a soda, whereas they were impossible before. But how can a player, 20 metres directly in front, still miss by five metres? There are two things that go wrong. First, the player does not run in a direct line to the goals - they veer out to the right (if a right foot kick) and then try and compensate by hooking the ball. Second, the leg is acting like a pendulum, it needs to swing perpendicularly to the goal line. If it swings at an angle, even if perfect contact is made, the ball will follow the wrong trajectory. The further out the person is, the more the ball will be off line. A kicking coach should be able to work on this with players. The remedy is simple. If the player makes a mistake with either of these issues, then the coach beats his legs with a bamboo rod. Simple.

The great kicks for goal - Peter Hudson, Peter McKenna and Tony Lockett, all had a simple straight line run, perpendicular swing and small gap drop style. They also kicked in the days when wind played a role, and so would be even more accurate today. But very few players seem to be able to emulate their approach. You never saw Tony Lockett veer off to the right in order to get extra distance. He knew (at least by instinct) that a perfect strike was the best way of achieving this. So a kicking-for-goal coach should, if they don't already, have a whole lot of white lines marked on the ground with multiple angle cameras recording the player's movements. Analysis of this should then inform improvements to style. I believe that small weights should be taped to a player's leg in order to change swing angle. These can be progressively removed as the player begins to understand his body more. Most players should be abe to do that, except Sam Gilbert.
User avatar
perfectionist
Saintsational Legend
 
Posts: 7147
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 3:06pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby Stephen Theodore » Mon 16 Apr 2018 1:35pm

Devilhead wrote:Paddy did a load better than Mongo Hawkins yesterday with a lot worse delivery


Spot on, thought he was one of very few positives. Considering the way the ball is being delivered into the forward line, he was okay, and he had half the Cats defence hanging off him.
Stephen Theodore
SS Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 2009
Joined: Mon 06 Aug 2007 1:53pm
Location: SE Queensland

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby Linton Lodger » Mon 16 Apr 2018 1:46pm

RODOS wrote:paddy mccartin isn't the bloody problem, he's actually coming good in a very poor team, very poor delivery, 3 on 1s. he had 12 touches last night, 6 marks, only one goal but could have been more, that contested mark in the square was good but it was touched off the boot.

However I agree re the team, whatever we're doing isn't working, TRY SOMETHING ELSE ffs. get back to a simple style, fast play, man up their loose players in the forward line and try and hit up passes. make it really simple


+1

I made the trip to Geelong yesterday and one of the few bright lights were firstly, Sandy's form and Josh Battle, but also Paddy's game. He was covering the ground better, holding his marks, generally made really good decisions and kicked a nice goal. He is improving slightly every game and if that continues, he will get to some good form.

They need to back him in, keep playing him, kick the ball to him (properly) and the little blokes need to get at his bloody feet.
Last edited by Linton Lodger on Mon 16 Apr 2018 1:50pm, edited 1 time in total.
Linton Lodger
Club Player
 
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby Linton Lodger » Mon 16 Apr 2018 1:49pm

Stephen Theodore wrote:
Devilhead wrote:Paddy did a load better than Mongo Hawkins yesterday with a lot worse delivery


Spot on, thought he was one of very few positives. Considering the way the ball is being delivered into the forward line, he was okay, and he had half the Cats defence hanging off him.


Yep, he was constantly double teamed, particularly after we lost Marshall, the little blokes may have benefitted from getting around his feet. He also took a mighty pack mark in the goal square which was called play on, I assume it was touched off the boot.
Linton Lodger
Club Player
 
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon 18 Aug 2014 2:07pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby barneyboyz » Mon 16 Apr 2018 2:02pm

perfectionist wrote:
damienc wrote:...Especially the goal kicking coach. What a fraud he is...

An interesting role at a footy club. The reality is that if you can't kick by age 15, you will likely never be able to kick. The age could even be lower, certainly for being able to kick on both feet. The main problem is that style (including faults) are so ingrained after ten years or so of doing it, it is almost impossible to change. To that extent, it is easier to teach someone at age 15 to kick if they have never kicked before than someone who has had 10 years of practice at doing the wrong thing. Of course, the person's physique has something to do with it as well. It's all about the conservation of momentum, which is the product of the mass and velocity of an object, in this case the ball. It is a three-dimensional vector quantity (kicks off the side of the boot), possessing a magnitude and a direction. If m is an object's mass and v is the velocity (also a vector), then the momentum is p = m v. This is a rather simple formula, which even our players should be able to understand, except Sam Gilbert. The idea is to impart as much of the momentum in the direction you want the ball to travel as you can.

Whilst I firmly believe that bad field kicks will never be good field kicks, the same cannot necessarily be said for kicking for goal. Bad field kicks will never be able to kick for goal. However, as we see every week at every game, good field kicks can't kick for goal either. In fact, I think it is getting worse that at any time in the last 30 years. Kicking for goal was deplorable until the late 60s when teams moved from flat punt and drop kicks to the drop punt. In the 70s, 80s and 90s, kicking for goal improved a lot. To be fair to current players, tight angle shots are now almost a soda, whereas they were impossible before. But how can a player, 20 metres directly in front, still miss by five metres? There are two things that go wrong. First, the player does not run in a direct line to the goals - they veer out to the right (if a right foot kick) and then try and compensate by hooking the ball. Second, the leg is acting like a pendulum, it needs to swing perpendicularly to the goal line. If it swings at an angle, even if perfect contact is made, the ball will follow the wrong trajectory. The further out the person is, the more the ball will be off line. A kicking coach should be able to work on this with players. The remedy is simple. If the player makes a mistake with either of these issues, then the coach beats his legs with a bamboo rod. Simple.

The great kicks for goal - Peter Hudson, Peter McKenna and Tony Lockett, all had a simple straight line run, perpendicular swing and small gap drop style. They also kicked in the days when wind played a role, and so would be even more accurate today. But very few players seem to be able to emulate their approach. You never saw Tony Lockett veer off to the right in order to get extra distance. He knew (at least by instinct) that a perfect strike was the best way of achieving this. So a kicking-for-goal coach should, if they don't already, have a whole lot of white lines marked on the ground with multiple angle cameras recording the player's movements. Analysis of this should then inform improvements to style. I believe that small weights should be taped to a player's leg in order to change swing angle. These can be progressively removed as the player begins to understand his body more. Most players should be abe to do that, except Sam Gilbert.


I don't know much about the ability of changing your style from a timeframe perspective, at least in a clinical manner, however I did manage to improve my own kicking issues as an adult, and I believe that you first must understand what it is you are doing wrong, not just hearing someone say this or that, but really understand what it is.

Too often I see players veer to the side (as you mention), and it fairly gives me the s***s. They need to get the big man down there and flog them if they veer off!!! Just kick straight through the ball, if it comes up short then there's an option close in, but getting distance without accuracy is just sending the ball back out to the fifty line
Building this club starts with us the supporters becoming members. We cannot expect any change without this, momentum starts with us :!:
User avatar
barneyboyz
Club Player
 
Posts: 523
Joined: Thu 08 Mar 2007 10:13pm
Location: Pakenham

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby oldie60 » Mon 16 Apr 2018 5:25pm

I hope they aren't paying Ben Dixon! and as far as structure hows about telling players to play on a bit of instinct instead of giving them stupid running patterns and guarding fresh air. The game is simple, see ball get ball, kick. We obviously can't do any of these so i don't know what they work on at training. Structures only work if you have the cattle to work at making them work. Our recruiting has left a lot to be desired as i don't believe we have picked footballers.
oldie60
Club Player
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 6:06pm

Re: HELLO...IT HASN'T WORKED

Postby happy feet » Mon 16 Apr 2018 5:57pm

barneyboyz wrote:
perfectionist wrote:
damienc wrote:...Especially the goal kicking coach. What a fraud he is...

An interesting role at a footy club. The reality is that if you can't kick by age 15, you will likely never be able to kick. The age could even be lower, certainly for being able to kick on both feet. The main problem is that style (including faults) are so ingrained after ten years or so of doing it, it is almost impossible to change. To that extent, it is easier to teach someone at age 15 to kick if they have never kicked before than someone who has had 10 years of practice at doing the wrong thing. Of course, the person's physique has something to do with it as well. It's all about the conservation of momentum, which is the product of the mass and velocity of an object, in this case the ball. It is a three-dimensional vector quantity (kicks off the side of the boot), possessing a magnitude and a direction. If m is an object's mass and v is the velocity (also a vector), then the momentum is p = m v. This is a rather simple formula, which even our players should be able to understand, except Sam Gilbert. The idea is to impart as much of the momentum in the direction you want the ball to travel as you can.

Whilst I firmly believe that bad field kicks will never be good field kicks, the same cannot necessarily be said for kicking for goal. Bad field kicks will never be able to kick for goal. However, as we see every week at every game, good field kicks can't kick for goal either. In fact, I think it is getting worse that at any time in the last 30 years. Kicking for goal was deplorable until the late 60s when teams moved from flat punt and drop kicks to the drop punt. In the 70s, 80s and 90s, kicking for goal improved a lot. To be fair to current players, tight angle shots are now almost a soda, whereas they were impossible before. But how can a player, 20 metres directly in front, still miss by five metres? There are two things that go wrong. First, the player does not run in a direct line to the goals - they veer out to the right (if a right foot kick) and then try and compensate by hooking the ball. Second, the leg is acting like a pendulum, it needs to swing perpendicularly to the goal line. If it swings at an angle, even if perfect contact is made, the ball will follow the wrong trajectory. The further out the person is, the more the ball will be off line. A kicking coach should be able to work on this with players. The remedy is simple. If the player makes a mistake with either of these issues, then the coach beats his legs with a bamboo rod. Simple.

The great kicks for goal - Peter Hudson, Peter McKenna and Tony Lockett, all had a simple straight line run, perpendicular swing and small gap drop style. They also kicked in the days when wind played a role, and so would be even more accurate today. But very few players seem to be able to emulate their approach. You never saw Tony Lockett veer off to the right in order to get extra distance. He knew (at least by instinct) that a perfect strike was the best way of achieving this. So a kicking-for-goal coach should, if they don't already, have a whole lot of white lines marked on the ground with multiple angle cameras recording the player's movements. Analysis of this should then inform improvements to style. I believe that small weights should be taped to a player's leg in order to change swing angle. These can be progressively removed as the player begins to understand his body more. Most players should be abe to do that, except Sam Gilbert.


I don't know much about the ability of changing your style from a timeframe perspective, at least in a clinical manner, however I did manage to improve my own kicking issues as an adult, and I believe that you first must understand what it is you are doing wrong, not just hearing someone say this or that, but really understand what it is.

Too often I see players veer to the side (as you mention), and it fairly gives me the s***s. They need to get the big man down there and flog them if they veer off!!! Just kick straight through the ball, if it comes up short then there's an option close in, but getting distance without accuracy is just sending the ball back out to the fifty line


Good post - do you remember a chap called Stewart Loewe? I remember him being the worst kick for goal I had ever seen. I hade moved interstate and had not seen many of Buckets early games. When he went to line up a shot for goal half the outer turned and faced the grandstand, as it was too painful to watch. The Club enlisted Peter Hudson to coach Buckets how to kick for goal and it was very successful. I don't know what his accuracy improvement was in terms of percentage but it was heaps better for the coaching. I was the same in basketball - could not hit a free throw but a coach that understood the mechanics of shooting gave me some lessons and I never looked back. Have not played for well over 10 years and not long ago picked up a ball at a court and hit 8/10. Good coaching can work wonders.
happy feet
Club Player
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Wed 27 Feb 2008 7:27pm


Return to Saintsational Fan Forum (open to all ages)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 9 guests