Billings and mccartin

[SuperSaint]

The comparisons of billings with Fiora are really off the mark






Fiora was a much better kick...

Jonesy that's gold.

For those that talk about Billings showing glimpses, well Fiora also showed glimpses for 8 years.

[Kick-it-lace-out]

I think folks need to give Paddy a break. The delivery to him yesterday was appalling. In fact the delivery into our forward line overall was shocking. So many times our midfield just kicked long bombs iinto our forwards, that they never stood a chance. So many times Paddy would lead out for the ball, to only have it bombed in well over his head. We also should give Brisbane some credit. They defended quite well and forced us to kick wide inside our forward 50, with many of our shots on goal being on quite accute angles, hence the poor conversion rate.
Paddy will be a star, he has unbelievable presence, but please give the kid a chance. Maybe instead of bagging him, take a look at how our midfield are bringing the ball into our forward 50. Unfortunately our midfield don't have the elite foot skills lof a Dal Santo, Hayes or Goddard.

[George27]

Gee I hope you are right, Kick-it-lace-out, that Paddy will be a star, but I fear he will not. Roo, Tim, Josh and Paddy all suffered from the same delivery. All of them roamed up to the wing and even beyond.

Roo had 28 disposals, 12 marks and 5 shots on goal.
Membrey had 15 disposals, 10 marks and 4 shots.
Bruce had 11 disposals , 5 marks and 5 shots..and 4 tackles.
Paddy had 5 disposals , 2 marks and one shot, and one tackle.

At the moment, I do not see he has the presence that demands the footy, and goes and gets it. We all - I am sure that is true of all of us - want the lad to become a star. After yesterday it is hard to see that happening. Not being disrespectful. Just a concerned citizen.

[CURLY]

I will go with Dunstall and Brown rather than the few on here that don't rate McCsrtins contributions.

[stonecold]

At the moment Paddy is still learning his craft, he is also not a major target in the pecking order,.currently behind Bruce, Skunky and Rooey when he's down there, currently playing the 5th/6th forward role, those with an understanding of current day forward structures will know what I mean!!!!!

[BigMart]

What

That a 5th and 6th don't get a kick?

Best we tell Adelaide

[stonecold]

What

That a 5th and 6th don't get a kick?

Best we tell Adelaide

As I said, do some research and gather an understanding of modern day footy and roles within it!!!!!

I'm not having a crack either, but footy airnt played as simple as it used to be!!!!!

[Joffa Burns]

First round pick

Problem is the only club who will stump up a first rounder for Billings has already given us their 2017 first rounder as part of the JOM deal

[BigMart]

So Adelaide don't play 'modern footy'?

In modern footy, we have forwards who are there not to be dangerous or get a touch... Paddy must have performed his role the?

Funny thing is, I bet he gets dropped this week, and he started all three quarters after the first on the bench, suggesting AR preferred to go with Acres or Roo as the other tall... Doesn't trust Paddy

BTW

Since you know the modern game so well

Explain to me the following

Link, round up, wicket keeper, coffin

These terms should be well known to you

Along with plus one, outnumber, defensive winger, (sweep, block, tackle) fishbone, U set up ... And of course half press, full press

[Con Gorozidis]

I will go with Dunstall and Brown rather than the few on here that don't rate McCsrtins contributions.

Brown kicked 38 in his second season.
Dunstall 77 in his second season.

[spert]

Let's not expect more from Paddy or Billings than they may be capable of..we haven't seen absolute breakout games from either, although Billings kicked four against the Dogs in a game, he really hasn't set the world on fire. Paddy has taken a couple of strong marks in a couple of games, but can't say he deserves a game over a lot of others in the wings at this stage..he will never the drop-in replacement for an agile forward who demands the ball like Roo. Get them both into the VFL and make them work harder.

[ROLS-LEE]

I think folks need to give Paddy a break. The delivery to him yesterday was appalling. In fact the delivery into our forward line overall was shocking. So many times our midfield just kicked long bombs iinto our forwards, that they never stood a chance. So many times Paddy would lead out for the ball, to only have it bombed in well over his head. We also should give Brisbane some credit. They defended quite well and forced us to kick wide inside our forward 50, with many of our shots on goal being on quite accute angles, hence the poor conversion rate.
Paddy will be a star, he has unbelievable presence, but please give the kid a chance. Maybe instead of bagging him, take a look at how our midfield are bringing the ball into our forward 50. Unfortunately our midfield don't have the elite foot skills lof a Dal Santo, Hayes or Goddard.

That's why I'm hoping that Billings becomes the player that delivers it lace out. Has the skills. Just needs to get it more often and be more damaging with it.

[magnifisaint]

Both going to be crap players. Aaron Fiora are you home?

[stonecold]

Big M, would take forever to explain modern game and all it's roles/terms, you should know that, for example: Basic forward line structure can include, 2 targets, 2 lead-ups and a 5th and 6th and that's just for starters, maybe your role could be to post something positive about the club, coaching staff.and our playing group for something different, it's not all soon and gloom you know!!!!!

[CURLY]

I will go with Dunstall and Brown rather than the few on here that don't rate McCsrtins contributions.

Brown kicked 38 in his second season.
Dunstall 77 in his second season.

No what they had to say about McCartin last night On The Couch.

[kosifantutti]

McLardarse.

Am I the only one who finds this language unacceptable from a "supporter"?

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but most can do it without belittling the players.

[Con Gorozidis]

I will go with Dunstall and Brown rather than the few on here that don't rate McCsrtins contributions.

Brown kicked 38 in his second season.
Dunstall 77 in his second season.

No what they had to say about McCartin last night On The Couch.

Nope. How about you tell us all?

[Con Gorozidis]

The whole conversation has become idiotic.
People seem to be breaking in to extremes.

Apparently if you dont think Paddy is going to be the next Dunstall or Plugger you are a disgrace to the club as a supporter.
The chances of him being Plugger or Dunstall are 0%. That does NOT mean he is going to be a dud.
The choice isnt 'gun' or 'dud'. There are lots and lots of options in between.

Some people seem to claim if you dont say he is a definite Hall and Famer then you are committing some kind of sacrilege.

From what I have read, noone is claiming he is hopeless or is a dud or a bust.

The issue that we are attempting to discuss is what his limitations are. What he can work on. What kind of impact he can make. What kind of player he is trying to be.

This should be a reasonable conversation that everyone can contribute to.

What if he just ends up as good as say Jay Schulz? 194 games & 333 goals. A pretty good career. I would be happy with that.

[The OtherThommo]

Objectively compare the agility and running capacity of Roughead and Paddy.

Roughead, Cloke, Brown, Hall, Tex and all of those lead up Power Forwards we can compare him to, have one major advantage.

All were also powerful runners, who got separation and had huge engines for big men

McCartin
Season 2016
Age 20
Games
(Career) 17
(Season) 11
Kicks 5.1
Handballs 1.9
Marks 4.4
Goals 1.3

Team
Position 9th



Cloke
Season 2005
Age 18
Games
(Career) 15
(Season) 15
Kicks 7.9
Handballs 2.0
Marks 3.5
Goals 0.7

Team
Position 15th



Hall
Season 1997
Age 20
Games
(Career) 19
(Season) 15
Kicks 4.7
Handballs 3.9
Marks 3.5
Goals 0.9

Team
Position 1st



Roughead
Season 2007
Age 20
Games
(Career) 58
(Season) 22
Kicks 5.3
Handballs 3.9
Marks 3.5
Goals 1.8

Team
Position 5th



Franklin
Season 2005
Age 18
Games
(Career) 20
(Season) 20
Kicks 7
Handballs 3.6
Marks 3.8
Goals 1

Team
Position 14th



Walker
Season 2009
Age 19
Games
(Career) 14
(Season) 14
Kicks 6.3
Handballs 1.6
Marks 4.1
Goals 1.6

Team
Position 5th

Good, that, JM.

"Ya want stats, I got stats".

[Con Gorozidis]

Lance kicked 73 goals in his third season
Roughead kicked 40 goals in his third season
*Barry Hall didnt do much until his 4th season.
Walker kicked 150 goals in his first 4 seasons.
Travis Cloke kicked 39 goals in his 3rd season.

*So Barry Hall gives us hope. His 3rd season was an absolute stinker. 6 goals from 13 games.

[The OtherThommo]

I also got stats - http://www.saints.com.au/team/stats

Go and have a play around with that, YTD and last round, and including the advanced options, like 'time on ground', and then make an argument that JB ain't thereabouts - even though he clearly hasn't been at what I think is his best.

How some people view the game is pretty flippin' myopic - I've had a number of people in the 1st 3 rounds state Jack Steele doesn't get enough of the ball.

Funny how some players become lost in traffic.

A consensus was formed amongst the cohort immediately after Sundee's game - we need to be very wary of celebrating mediocrity.

The other consensus raised around mediocrity was a fear it's embedded in the leadership group.

And, by mediocrity we were not discussing effort, discipline or the workperson traits.

We were discussing football ability.

McCartin's a natural footballer. So is JB.

If we can't exploit that, we have a real problem.......'going forward', as the jargonistas love to say.

[Con Gorozidis]

Troy Menzel for the Crows probably a good point of comparison for JB.
Classy player. Just struggling to stay consistent and find his niche.

[ace]

Just reminded
1. Scully (Melbourne)
2. Trengove (Melbourne)
3. Martin (Richmond)

Billings should be the next Dusty.

[Johnny Member]

Lance kicked 73 goals in his third season
Roughead kicked 40 goals in his third season
*Barry Hall didnt do much until his 4th season.
Walker kicked 150 goals in his first 4 seasons.
Travis Cloke kicked 39 goals in his 3rd season.

*So Barry Hall gives us hope. His 3rd season was an absolute stinker. 6 goals from 13 games.

How many games had those blokes played at that stage though?

[ace]

According to Champion Data, Billings' form since 2016 has him ranked 33rd out of 52 players drafted in the same year who have lined up in at least five games.

McCartin is ranked 46th out of 52 on a similar measure.


There is no way either of these guys would have lasted past pick 30 in either draft.
We were the club unlucky enough to pick them and we used premium picks to get them.