Now we've lost Ballarat as well. What about Frankston?

[White Winmar]

The WB are travelling well, aren't they? A stand alone team VFL team that has now won two flags, an elite training facility in their heartland, complete with a "home ground" to train and play VFL games at. A women's team in the start up comp. A second premiership, ahead of time and somewhat unexpected. They seem to be way ahead of us, whereas two years ago they were a basket case. At that stage, at least we had a coach, a great captain, a few young guys who were showing promise and a number 1 pick in the draft to come. I know they were slightly ahead of us in the rebuilding of their list, but our club was much more stable. Any outsider, looking into both clubs would've thought we were ahead of the game.

Now, the final insult. The WB have stolen our rural heartland and we gave it up without a murmur. A bit like Tasmania. I remember as a kid, how many good players came out of our zone that was Ballarat. Perovic, Tweeddale, O'Keefe, Gellie, Muir, Odgers, Keil, Cunningham, Burns, Lockett, Frawley to name a few. I know that the west of Victoria is geographically the WB target area, but I also know we have so many "rusted on" saints supporters in the area. I mention this now because I recently stayed with a friend in Ballan for a few weeks. I was in Ballarat for work most days and the talk was all about footy. Most of the people I came into contact with were saints fans. There was very little talk of the WB, despite their great season and impending finals' appearance. It seemed to me, like in Tassie, we still enjoyed a good deal of support there, especially amongst the over 30's.

That will soon change, especially as any undecided kids in the area will jump on the WB bandwagon. The impending opening of the boutique stadium there will only strengthen their position. Two games a year there will be major events in the town's social calendar. The area is ripe for the taking. Sponsorship, new members and the promise of Ballarat being developed as a new manufacturing hub for Victoria. It is almost a commuter suburb now, as I saw when I caught the train into town a few times during my stay. The corridor that is Melton, Bacchus Marsh, Rockbank, Ballan etc. is ripe for the taking. Lots of affordable land, lots of new buildings and lots of young families chasing the Australian dream. The WB are sitting on a potential gold mine, pardon the pun. I can see them having 70,000 members in a decade or so, if they maintain even a reasonable level of success.

What about us then? The NZ project has been a disaster so far. I can't see it ever being a major source of members or income. There's only one sport in NZ, that's Rugby Union. Every kid wants to be an All Black. Given their small population, we are competing in a very tight market that is also non-traditional. Most of the Kiwis don't even know what AFL is and more importantly, don't really care. I think the clue for us is in our geographical position. We've positioned ourselves as the Bayside club and we should throw everything into that. With Frankston on life support and unlikely to survive in its current form, it may be time to establish a presence in the middle of Frankston, not the wasteland of Seaford. Promote our brand down the entire peninsula and bayside corridor. A home base and elite facility at our spiritual home, Moorabbin, complemented by outposts in Frankston and beyond. From there, we can try and win the region and the youngsters growing up there. We already face some competition from the Dees in the Casey corridor and the Hawks now own the eastern suburbs. It's now or never. I hope Matt Finnis has some sort of plan for our new heartland, rather than striking into unknown territory first. It wasn't so long ago that 30,000 members was considered the minimum number needed to survive. in the very near future I can see 60,000 being the new benchmark. At the risk of agreeing with Citywest, if we don't get the next few years right in our strategic planning and execution, there'll be another form of execution on the agenda. And we won't be in control. The Deathstar will be and they'll put us wherever they fancy.

[Bluthy]

OK so we are jut in full pessimistic, wrist slitting mode now. We're working our bayside area hard with great inclusive marketing and the club has made decisions based on the AFL geographical carve up. I think NZ is worth pursuing. Tassie looks a huge error, but the past is the past and we are trying to get a bit of toe hold back there I think playing a game there if possible. Melbourne/Victoria/Australia's population keeps growing and footy has become very trendy. We will grow but we want to grow faster than others if possible. On field success will help a lot. But also great initiatives like the Pride game will drag in new people to the sport and that is gold for us if we can convert to members.

I like what Summers and Finnis are doing. Its been positive with solid growth in difficult times. When we hit finals lets see how things go in NZ and other places. Everyone loves a winner.

[saintbrat]

we haven't had Ballarat in a Long time
trust me I know - never get Saints players in Ballarat
Until last year it was North Melbourne and had been for quite some years- as part of their alignment with North Ballarat


I am yet to hear WHY the ? AFL or Bulldogs elected to select Ballarat
- although someone will have some explaining to do after today when they- the Council- advertised the Bulldogs TEAM coming to Ballarat when all they got was the Cup, the Coach, the Pres and the CEO-

makes more sense to target the Bayside- much greater population growth-

-

[Con Gorozidis]

Good posts. I think we need to really solidify the Bayside suburbs from Middle Park to Mornington, The Peninsula (Both Westernport and PP Bay sides). So Mornington- Portsea and also Hastings etc. If we ignore our heartland looking for new exotic markets we could end with nothing. Our homeland is not secure and if we take our eye off it the Hawks or Demons could take it from under our noses.

[IanRush]

Albury-Wodonga or Mildura/Broken Hill/Robinvale should be target areas.

[saintsRrising]

Good posts. I think we need to really solidify the Bayside suburbs from Middle Park to Mornington, The Peninsula (Both Westernport and PP Bay sides). So Mornington- Portsea and also Hastings etc. If we ignore our heartland looking for new exotic markets we could end with nothing. Our homeland is not secure and if we take our eye off it the Hawks or Demons could take it from under our noses.

Have you not noticed where the Hawks are building their new Training Base and community Centre? It will be between Moorabbin and the area you speak of.

They clearly want the bayside area.

[Con Gorozidis]

Good posts. I think we need to really solidify the Bayside suburbs from Middle Park to Mornington, The Peninsula (Both Westernport and PP Bay sides). So Mornington- Portsea and also Hastings etc. If we ignore our heartland looking for new exotic markets we could end with nothing. Our homeland is not secure and if we take our eye off it the Hawks or Demons could take it from under our noses.

Have you not noticed where the Hawks are building their new Training Base and community Centre? It will be between Moorabbin and the area you speak of.

They clearly want the bayside area.

Yep. It is like them setting up a military base and garrison right on our border and then sending some soldiers over the border to see if we react.

[ausfatcat]

We ain't lost Ballarat the dog's have only played a pre-season game there, and pissed off a lot of AFL fans (note not bulldog's fan's) when not a single player turned up today, it has almost lost them Ballarat from hate filled social media as a result. Saying that the saints bastion of what used to be Ballarat is no more there used to be two pubs dedicated to the saints here, but neither exist now.

Ballarat ain't the dog's territory YET, but it also isn't the saints anymore it's just your typical mixed town.

[Teflon]

If we play our cards right Kalkallo is up for grabs!!

[kalsaint]

The WB are travelling well, aren't they? A stand alone team VFL team that has now won two flags, an elite training facility in their heartland, complete with a "home ground" to train and play VFL games at. A women's team in the start up comp. A second premiership, ahead of time and somewhat unexpected. They seem to be way ahead of us, whereas two years ago they were a basket case. At that stage, at least we had a coach, a great captain, a few young guys who were showing promise and a number 1 pick in the draft to come. I know they were slightly ahead of us in the rebuilding of their list, but our club was much more stable. Any outsider, looking into both clubs would've thought we were ahead of the game.

Now, the final insult. The WB have stolen our rural heartland and we gave it up without a murmur. A bit like Tasmania. I remember as a kid, how many good players came out of our zone that was Ballarat. Perovic, Tweeddale, O'Keefe, Gellie, Muir, Odgers, Keil, Cunningham, Burns, Lockett, Frawley to name a few. I know that the west of Victoria is geographically the WB target area, but I also know we have so many "rusted on" saints supporters in the area. I mention this now because I recently stayed with a friend in Ballan for a few weeks. I was in Ballarat for work most days and the talk was all about footy. Most of the people I came into contact with were saints fans. There was very little talk of the WB, despite their great season and impending finals' appearance. It seemed to me, like in Tassie, we still enjoyed a good deal of support there, especially amongst the over 30's.

That will soon change, especially as any undecided kids in the area will jump on the WB bandwagon. The impending opening of the boutique stadium there will only strengthen their position. Two games a year there will be major events in the town's social calendar. The area is ripe for the taking. Sponsorship, new members and the promise of Ballarat being developed as a new manufacturing hub for Victoria. It is almost a commuter suburb now, as I saw when I caught the train into town a few times during my stay. The corridor that is Melton, Bacchus Marsh, Rockbank, Ballan etc. is ripe for the taking. Lots of affordable land, lots of new buildings and lots of young families chasing the Australian dream. The WB are sitting on a potential gold mine, pardon the pun. I can see them having 70,000 members in a decade or so, if they maintain even a reasonable level of success.

What about us then? The NZ project has been a disaster so far. I can't see it ever being a major source of members or income. There's only one sport in NZ, that's Rugby Union. Every kid wants to be an All Black. Given their small population, we are competing in a very tight market that is also non-traditional. Most of the Kiwis don't even know what AFL is and more importantly, don't really care. I think the clue for us is in our geographical position. We've positioned ourselves as the Bayside club and we should throw everything into that. With Frankston on life support and unlikely to survive in its current form, it may be time to establish a presence in the middle of Frankston, not the wasteland of Seaford. Promote our brand down the entire peninsula and bayside corridor. A home base and elite facility at our spiritual home, Moorabbin, complemented by outposts in Frankston and beyond. From there, we can try and win the region and the youngsters growing up there. We already face some competition from the Dees in the Casey corridor and the Hawks now own the eastern suburbs. It's now or never. I hope Matt Finnis has some sort of plan for our new heartland, rather than striking into unknown territory first. It wasn't so long ago that 30,000 members was considered the minimum number needed to survive. in the very near future I can see 60,000 being the new benchmark. At the risk of agreeing with Citywest, if we don't get the next few years right in our strategic planning and execution, there'll be another form of execution on the agenda. And we won't be in control. The Deathstar will be and they'll put us wherever they fancy.

I hope you added that to the survey or other close representatives to the intel at the club. Good read. I too remember the quality we gained from th Ballarat area. If its about to prosper it sounds like we lost another opportunity. Our club needs to be on top of these matters and forget of getting onside with low value overseas options that suit the AFL business but don't help the club to succeed or grow or contribute on things we want like a womens team that will be delayed and once again. that could have ramnifications on the teams longer term performance against the early starters. We need to be smart for StKilda not for the AFL. The latter don't care about St Kilda long term if they don't perform despite the ordonary traps and blocker [placed in front of us like stadium deals etc.

[kalsaint]

The WB are travelling well, aren't they? A stand alone team VFL team that has now won two flags, an elite training facility in their heartland, complete with a "home ground" to train and play VFL games at. A women's team in the start up comp. A second premiership, ahead of time and somewhat unexpected. They seem to be way ahead of us, whereas two years ago they were a basket case. At that stage, at least we had a coach, a great captain, a few young guys who were showing promise and a number 1 pick in the draft to come. I know they were slightly ahead of us in the rebuilding of their list, but our club was much more stable. Any outsider, looking into both clubs would've thought we were ahead of the game.

Now, the final insult. The WB have stolen our rural heartland and we gave it up without a murmur. A bit like Tasmania. I remember as a kid, how many good players came out of our zone that was Ballarat. Perovic, Tweeddale, O'Keefe, Gellie, Muir, Odgers, Keil, Cunningham, Burns, Lockett, Frawley to name a few. I know that the west of Victoria is geographically the WB target area, but I also know we have so many "rusted on" saints supporters in the area. I mention this now because I recently stayed with a friend in Ballan for a few weeks. I was in Ballarat for work most days and the talk was all about footy. Most of the people I came into contact with were saints fans. There was very little talk of the WB, despite their great season and impending finals' appearance. It seemed to me, like in Tassie, we still enjoyed a good deal of support there, especially amongst the over 30's.

That will soon change, especially as any undecided kids in the area will jump on the WB bandwagon. The impending opening of the boutique stadium there will only strengthen their position. Two games a year there will be major events in the town's social calendar. The area is ripe for the taking. Sponsorship, new members and the promise of Ballarat being developed as a new manufacturing hub for Victoria. It is almost a commuter suburb now, as I saw when I caught the train into town a few times during my stay. The corridor that is Melton, Bacchus Marsh, Rockbank, Ballan etc. is ripe for the taking. Lots of affordable land, lots of new buildings and lots of young families chasing the Australian dream. The WB are sitting on a potential gold mine, pardon the pun. I can see them having 70,000 members in a decade or so, if they maintain even a reasonable level of success.

What about us then? The NZ project has been a disaster so far. I can't see it ever being a major source of members or income. There's only one sport in NZ, that's Rugby Union. Every kid wants to be an All Black. Given their small population, we are competing in a very tight market that is also non-traditional. Most of the Kiwis don't even know what AFL is and more importantly, don't really care. I think the clue for us is in our geographical position. We've positioned ourselves as the Bayside club and we should throw everything into that. With Frankston on life support and unlikely to survive in its current form, it may be time to establish a presence in the middle of Frankston, not the wasteland of Seaford. Promote our brand down the entire peninsula and bayside corridor. A home base and elite facility at our spiritual home, Moorabbin, complemented by outposts in Frankston and beyond. From there, we can try and win the region and the youngsters growing up there. We already face some competition from the Dees in the Casey corridor and the Hawks now own the eastern suburbs. It's now or never. I hope Matt Finnis has some sort of plan for our new heartland, rather than striking into unknown territory first. It wasn't so long ago that 30,000 members was considered the minimum number needed to survive. in the very near future I can see 60,000 being the new benchmark. At the risk of agreeing with Citywest, if we don't get the next few years right in our strategic planning and execution, there'll be another form of execution on the agenda. And we won't be in control. The Deathstar will be and they'll put us wherever they fancy.

I hope you added that to the survey or other close representatives to the intel at the club. Good read. I too remember the quality we gained from th Ballarat area. If its about to prosper it sounds like we lost another opportunity. Our club needs to be on top of these matters and forget of getting onside with low value overseas options that suit the AFL business but don't help the club to succeed or grow or contribute on things we want like a womens team that will be delayed and once again. that could have ramnifications on the teams longer term performance against the early starters. We need to be smart for StKilda not for the AFL. The latter don't care about St Kilda long term if they don't perform despite the ordonary traps and blocker [placed in front of us like stadium deals etc.

[spert]

Didn't the Howard govt. put something like $13 Million to the western suburbs region in an attempt to get more votes, and it revolved around developing an elite sporting setup which included the Bulldogs facility? I think that's why they have top training facilities. We have no rural heartland as far as I know. When I travel around Victoria, there seems to be supporters of a lot of Vic clubs across the board- including the Saints.

A lot of country areas are struggling and not the footy powers they were decades ago, providing great players to the VFL/ AFL. The best thing for the Saints as a club is to get out in the regions over summer and during the AFL season and get the word out there. Of course the best way to get support is to win, and win a lot, get exciting players on the list that attract more supporters and that's why we need to get high profile recruits, even if it's going to cost.

[saintspremiers]

CW thinks NZ is our savour though

[loris]

While you mention Ballarat as having a strong connection to StKilda years ago.

Historically a very strong area for St Kilda was the Gippsland region.

My memory goes back our great goal sneak Bill Young, Alan Morrow, The Stephenson brothers, plus there were many not such household names over the years. There has been a strong representation & linkage to the Gippsland comps over the years.

Even today we have Tim Membery............... maybe the Gippsland area is a much closer extension of our southern, eastern seaside push and a better fit to be developing our presence than crying over long lost Ballarat??????

[ace]

The WB are travelling well, aren't they? A stand alone team VFL team that has now won two flags, an elite training facility in their heartland, complete with a "home ground" to train and play VFL games at. A women's team in the start up comp. A second premiership, ahead of time and somewhat unexpected. They seem to be way ahead of us, whereas two years ago they were a basket case. At that stage, at least we had a coach, a great captain, a few young guys who were showing promise and a number 1 pick in the draft to come. I know they were slightly ahead of us in the rebuilding of their list, but our club was much more stable. Any outsider, looking into both clubs would've thought we were ahead of the game.

Now, the final insult. The WB have stolen our rural heartland and we gave it up without a murmur. A bit like Tasmania. I remember as a kid, how many good players came out of our zone that was Ballarat. Perovic, Tweeddale, O'Keefe, Gellie, Muir, Odgers, Keil, Cunningham, Burns, Lockett, Frawley to name a few. I know that the west of Victoria is geographically the WB target area, but I also know we have so many "rusted on" saints supporters in the area. I mention this now because I recently stayed with a friend in Ballan for a few weeks. I was in Ballarat for work most days and the talk was all about footy. Most of the people I came into contact with were saints fans. There was very little talk of the WB, despite their great season and impending finals' appearance. It seemed to me, like in Tassie, we still enjoyed a good deal of support there, especially amongst the over 30's.

That will soon change, especially as any undecided kids in the area will jump on the WB bandwagon. The impending opening of the boutique stadium there will only strengthen their position. Two games a year there will be major events in the town's social calendar. The area is ripe for the taking. Sponsorship, new members and the promise of Ballarat being developed as a new manufacturing hub for Victoria. It is almost a commuter suburb now, as I saw when I caught the train into town a few times during my stay. The corridor that is Melton, Bacchus Marsh, Rockbank, Ballan etc. is ripe for the taking. Lots of affordable land, lots of new buildings and lots of young families chasing the Australian dream. The WB are sitting on a potential gold mine, pardon the pun. I can see them having 70,000 members in a decade or so, if they maintain even a reasonable level of success.

What about us then? The NZ project has been a disaster so far. I can't see it ever being a major source of members or income. There's only one sport in NZ, that's Rugby Union. Every kid wants to be an All Black. Given their small population, we are competing in a very tight market that is also non-traditional. Most of the Kiwis don't even know what AFL is and more importantly, don't really care. I think the clue for us is in our geographical position. We've positioned ourselves as the Bayside club and we should throw everything into that. With Frankston on life support and unlikely to survive in its current form, it may be time to establish a presence in the middle of Frankston, not the wasteland of Seaford. Promote our brand down the entire peninsula and bayside corridor. A home base and elite facility at our spiritual home, Moorabbin, complemented by outposts in Frankston and beyond. From there, we can try and win the region and the youngsters growing up there. We already face some competition from the Dees in the Casey corridor and the Hawks now own the eastern suburbs. It's now or never. I hope Matt Finnis has some sort of plan for our new heartland, rather than striking into unknown territory first. It wasn't so long ago that 30,000 members was considered the minimum number needed to survive. in the very near future I can see 60,000 being the new benchmark. At the risk of agreeing with Citywest, if we don't get the next few years right in our strategic planning and execution, there'll be another form of execution on the agenda. And we won't be in control. The Deathstar will be and they'll put us wherever they fancy.

Yes that Ballarat zone sure produced some great players, but combined with our metropolitan zone they were rarer than for all the other clubs in the competition.
That is why we have a trophy room full of wooden spoons while other clubs struggle to find places for new silverware.

But the club is trying to shore up our heartland a round Moorabbin but there are those perennial vermin Hawthorn and Melbourne poohing in our drinking water.

[Con Gorozidis]

Extremely interesting article by Bernard Salt on today's Aus about Melbourne's population shift to the west.

Could this be what has driven the Dogs resurgence? Will the Bombers be next to rise from the Ashes and go back to being a powerhouse?

Apologies for posting link behind a firewall but I am sure you can all find a way to view this article. It is a good read.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... f6aed5df30